How would Robert McCracken do with an ordinary fighter?

[dapug]

Looking for some positive input on the above, was thinking of the other 'ready made' talent like Dave Walker, Matthew Thirwell, Leo O'Reilly and Billy Corcoran that Robert trained.

None of them really fulfilled their potential, although Lee Meager, I feel, overachieved and credit should go to Rob for that.

Without sounding harsh, if Froch's chin was anything human like he may not have got past domestic level with his non existent defence and Carl is extremely knowledgable on sports science and conditioning himself

[billy nelson]

Looking for some positive input on the above, was thinking of the other 'ready made' talent like Dave Walker, Matthew Thirwell, Leo O'Reilly and Billy Corcoran that Robert trained.

None of them really fulfilled their potential, although Lee Meager, I feel, overachieved and credit should go to Rob for that.

Without sounding harsh, if Froch's chin was anything human like he may not have got past domestic level with his non existent defence and Carl is extremely knowledgable on sports science and conditioning himself

Sports science cant make you have a good chin it's just in you,obviously conditioning helps.
Great fight by Foch and kessler

[dbf]

McCracken and Froch 'click' thats why I think they work so well and this is probably the most important thing in a relationship between boxer and coach. Look at Haye and Booth, similar partnership.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, McCrackens pad work is poor, he meets the punches all the time and I'm surprised Carl hasn't injured himself. In the corner though he is calm and offers good advice.

Those without a deep understanding of amateur boxing and its coaches won't agree with this but I truly believe McCracken has learnt a lot from the coaches up as GB, as much if not more than he has passed onto them. There are some top top coaches there, who have been in the sport a long time.

As a manager of people he excels, and his experience cannot be questioned and I understand and respect he is vital to the GB setup.

Amateur boxing has a much stricter and comprehensive coach education programme than the BBBC provide the pro coaches. I know the codes vary but go to any amateur gym and see what and how they are being taught every night, you will be surprised.

[Andrew]

Looking for some positive input on the above, was thinking of the other 'ready made' talent like Dave Walker, Matthew Thirwell, Leo O'Reilly and Billy Corcoran that Robert trained.

None of them really fulfilled their potential, although Lee Meager, I feel, overachieved and credit should go to Rob for that.

Without sounding harsh, if Froch's chin was anything human like he may not have got past domestic level with his non existent defence and Carl is extremely knowledgable on sports science and conditioning himself

Yeah I always thought Froch would never win a world title due to a non existent defence when he was British Champ. That Pascal fight really took him to the next level though.

[dapug]

McCracken and Froch 'click' thats why I think they work so well and this is probably the most important thing in a relationship between boxer and coach. Look at Haye and Booth, similar partnership.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, McCrackens pad work is poor, he meets the punches all the time and I'm surprised Carl hasn't injured himself. In the corner though he is calm and offers good advice.

Those without a deep understanding of amateur boxing and its coaches won't agree with this but I truly believe McCracken has learnt a lot from the coaches up as GB, as much if not more than he has passed onto them. There are some top top coaches there, who have been in the sport a long time.

As a manager of people he excels, and his experience cannot be questioned and I understand and respect he is vital to the GB setup.

Amateur boxing has a much stricter and comprehensive coach education programme than the BBBC provide the pro coaches. I know the codes vary but go to any amateur gym and see what and how they are being taught every night, you will be surprised.

Excellent post and your point about Robert and Carl clicking is spot on, I also feel that McCracken has really made Carl believe in himself and has helped immensely with the mental side of his game. I was there the night Robert was robbed against Adrian Carew (Dodson) when he just slotted straight shots through the flashy hooks and uppercuts Adrian was throwing, I often forget what a good amateur Robert was.

[ALI]

Looking for some positive input on the above, was thinking of the other 'ready made' talent like Dave Walker, Matthew Thirwell, Leo O'Reilly and Billy Corcoran that Robert trained.

None of them really fulfilled their potential, although Lee Meager, I feel, overachieved and credit should go to Rob for that.

Without sounding harsh, if Froch's chin was anything human like he may not have got past domestic level with his non existent defence and Carl is extremely knowledgable on sports science and conditioning himself

Yeah I always thought Froch would never win a world title due to a non existent defence when he was British Champ. That Pascal fight really took him to the next level though.

I'll second that, good post.

[Bricks]

Looking for some positive input on the above, was thinking of the other 'ready made' talent like Dave Walker, Matthew Thirwell, Leo O'Reilly and Billy Corcoran that Robert trained.

None of them really fulfilled their potential, although Lee Meager, I feel, overachieved and credit should go to Rob for that.

Without sounding harsh, if Froch's chin was anything human like he may not have got past domestic level with his non existent defence and Carl is extremely knowledgable on sports science and conditioning himself

His defence is hardly non existent. He rides with punches superbly using the shoulder chin tuck and uses his reflexes to do this very well. That is a form of defence in itself different to the more often thought of blocking punches with your hands up. Carl was a amateur world championship bronze medalist. His skills alone of which defence are a part were always going to mark him out as being far beyond domestic level.

[Lenny]

Looking for some positive input on the above, was thinking of the other 'ready made' talent like Dave Walker, Matthew Thirwell, Leo O'Reilly and Billy Corcoran that Robert trained.

None of them really fulfilled their potential, although Lee Meager, I feel, overachieved and credit should go to Rob for that.

Without sounding harsh, if Froch's chin was anything human like he may not have got past domestic level with his non existent defence and Carl is extremely knowledgable on sports science and conditioning himself

His defence is hardly non existent. He rides with punches superbly using the shoulder chin tuck and uses his reflexes to do this very well. That is a form of defence in itself different to the more often thought of blocking punches with your hands up. Carl was a amateur world championship bronze medalist. His skills alone of which defence are a part were always going to mark him out as being far beyond domestic level.

He got his defense wrong plenty of time early in his career, trying a bit too hard to develop a shoulder roll reminiscent of De La Hoya but getting tagged plenty. His chin got him through fights like the Adamu one

[Old bones Ian]

How would any trainer do with an ordinary boxer?
Alot of it is down the the boxer themselves, how determined he is, how much he is willing to train, to live the correct life.

There are huge numbers of talented boxers that have never done much as pro's, and plenty of ordinary boxers that have overachieved.

I've no doubt that McCracken could bring out the best of an ordinary boxer, if he can get that ethos across

[black panther]

How would any trainer do with an ordinary boxer?
Alot of it is down the the boxer themselves, how determined he is, how much he is willing to train, to live the correct life.

There are huge numbers of talented boxers that have never done much as pro's, and plenty of ordinary boxers that have overachieved.

I've no doubt that McCracken could bring out the best of an ordinary boxer, if he can get that ethos across

Good post.

"Champions aren't made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them: A desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. "

Re: Froch's defence I disagree he's easy to hit; he has an awkward style that can prove difficult to land cleanly on. He also rides the punches well to essentially reduce their impact. This is part of the reason he is able to take flush punches so well. He also keeps a side profile which makes it very difficult to land body shots on him.

[rhino222]

carl has some big things in his favour thanks to mother nature.

1. he loves to fight
2. he is lean and rangy
3. he has a granite chin
4. he has decent power
5. has excellent recovery ability
6. metabolism has not slowed down a lot as he gets older therefore makes weight easily.

add this to the following...

1. was lucky enough to spend many many hours and rounds in the gym with howard eastman in his early days.
2. from day one he was the flagship in the class of 2002 fleet
3. was matched hard from day one, the skill and power was there to see
4. even on a bad day at the office (westerman) he was able to see off the opponent
5. is mentored and befriended by rob mac, himself a good fighter both am and pro
6. always had the backing of tv and good promotion
7. always kept his feet on the ground

[palooka]

carl has some big things in his favour thanks to mother nature.

1. he loves to fight
2. he is lean and rangy
3. he has a granite chin
4. he has decent power
5. has excellent recovery ability
6. metabolism has not slowed down a lot as he gets older therefore makes weight easily.

add this to the following...

1. was lucky enough to spend many many hours and rounds in the gym with howard eastman in his early days.
2. from day one he was the flagship in the class of 2002 fleet
3. was matched hard from day one, the skill and power was there to see
4. even on a bad day at the office (westerman) he was able to see off the opponent
5. is mentored and befriended by rob mac, himself a good fighter both am and pro
6. always had the backing of tv and good promotion
7. always kept his feet on the ground

There's not much more anyone could sensibly add

[dapug]

carl has some big things in his favour thanks to mother nature.

1. he loves to fight
2. he is lean and rangy
3. he has a granite chin
4. he has decent power
5. has excellent recovery ability
6. metabolism has not slowed down a lot as he gets older therefore makes weight easily.

add this to the following...

1. was lucky enough to spend many many hours and rounds in the gym with howard eastman in his early days.
2. from day one he was the flagship in the class of 2002 fleet
3. was matched hard from day one, the skill and power was there to see
4. even on a bad day at the office (westerman) he was able to see off the opponent
5. is mentored and befriended by rob mac, himself a good fighter both am and pro
6. always had the backing of tv and good promotion
7. always kept his feet on the ground

Palooka you know your stuff mate,

[palooka]

carl has some big things in his favour thanks to mother nature.

1. he loves to fight
2. he is lean and rangy
3. he has a granite chin
4. he has decent power
5. has excellent recovery ability
6. metabolism has not slowed down a lot as he gets older therefore makes weight easily.

add this to the following...

1. was lucky enough to spend many many hours and rounds in the gym with howard eastman in his early days.
2. from day one he was the flagship in the class of 2002 fleet
3. was matched hard from day one, the skill and power was there to see
4. even on a bad day at the office (westerman) he was able to see off the opponent
5. is mentored and befriended by rob mac, himself a good fighter both am and pro
6. always had the backing of tv and good promotion
7. always kept his feet on the ground

Palooka you know your stuff mate,

I wish I did dapug; I was just quoting rhino who has made some good points there.