Tyson Fury ducks Kubrat Pulev

[crusader]

Undisputed cruiserweight champion, which Haye wasn't, is just a label. To earn that label he beat Mormeck and Enzo, who were not much better than Fury, especially when weight is accounted for.

I strongly favor Haye in this fight, but his CW resume is overrated.

[Final round]

Haye fought both men at Crusierweight, how could Fury have beaten those versions?

By fighting them.

What complete drivel Horse have some back.

Mormeck would have spanked Fury back in 2007 who wasn't even a pro and Enzo would have spanked Fury at CW in 2008.

[Horse]

What complete drivel Horse have some back.

Mormeck would have spanked Fury back in 2007 who wasn't even a pro and Enzo would have spanked Fury at CW in 2008.

The current version of Fury would beat them.

[lillywhite14]

Undisputed cruiserweight champion, which Haye wasn't, is just a label. To earn that label he beat Mormeck and Enzo, who were not much better than Fury, especially when weight is accounted for.

I strongly favor Haye in this fight, but his CW resume is overrated.

Mormeck was the man. Him and Bell fought for all the belts. In the process the IBF was stripped and gifted to another. Cunningham was a paper titlist.

Enzo was another paper titlist but Haye decided to take that one in a nice big fat payday.

[crusader]

It depends on how you define the term. For me, it's simultaneously holding the four major belts in one division, which Haye never did.

Regardless, the label of undisputed champion or unified champion doesn't impress me greatly when it was earned by defeating Mormeck and Enzo. I think Fury is now a better HW than Mormeck and Enzo would've been when Haye beat them, and I don't see how those wins provide evidence that Haye is in a different class than Fury is; perhaps those who think they do could go beyond labels and into substance.

[Go Faster Stripes]

Haye KO here for me, the fact that Fury is too easy to hit will be his downfall as he doesnt use his size advantages.

Haye 2-9 and Fury 4-1 for those thinking this is a 50:50 fight, not in the eyes of the bookies anyway.

[lillywhite14]

It depends on how you define the term. For me, it's simultaneously holding the four major belts in one division, which Haye never did.

Regardless, the label of undisputed champion or unified champion doesn't impress me greatly when it was earned by defeating Mormeck and Enzo. I think Fury is now a better HW than Mormeck and Enzo would've been when Haye beat them, and I don't see how those wins provide evidence that Haye is in a different class than Fury is; perhaps those who think they do could go beyond labels and into substance.

Its hard to compare given the massive difference in size etc but p4p, Mormeck back then was better than Fury is now and will probably ever be.
Enzo? Not that far fetched to think Haye could blast Fury out of there in a similar timeframe he did the Welshman. Never thought Enzo was anything special. I do think Haye completely ruined him as a fighter though.

I look forward to this fight. I like both chaps involved.

[crusader]

At his peak Mormeck was likely a better fighter than Fury is if size were equal, but that's limited in relevance since Haye-Fury would occur in a division in which size makes a great difference. I also think Mormeck was beyond his peak when he fought Haye. He was still a world class cruiserweight, but he was 35 and had been in two brutal fights with Bell, one of which he was fortunate to win in my view; likely due to age and wear, he was slower, more fragile, and less able to maintain his pace than he was circa 2002-2004.

I think the 2007 version of Mormeck would've struggled greatly with and lost at HW to the current version of Fury for a number of reasons that may turn the thread into a Mormeck-Fury debate if I expound on them. Likewise, I think that the 2008 version of Enzo would've been stopped and generally dominated in a HW bout against today's version of Fury. My point in mentioning this is that Haye's cruiserweight campaign shouldn't be reduced to labels that mask the relevance of what he did to earn those labels; his wins over Enzo and Mormeck were good, but they hardly suggest that at HW he is a class above Fury.

I'm not a fan of either fighter, but I'd look forward to a bout between them.

[lefty]

David Haye is a former Undisputed Cruiserwwight champion and a belt holder at heavyweight.

Fury would be favourite to beat those versions of Mormeck and Maccarinelli as well.

Haye fought both men at Crusierweight, how could Fury have beaten those versions?

x2

[lefty]

Haye is giving away 6 inches in reach and height. Thats as well as over 40lbs based on their last fight weight and it shouldn't be ignored.

The last time we saw stats like that it was Valuev - who boxed all wrong and didn't use his size to keep Haye away from him. If Fury stays behind a jab, Haye will have an extremely tough time of it.

Haye can't put Fury to sleep if he can't get to him. It is definitely not a write off of a fight like say Harrison and Haye was.

A lot of this fight will hinge on whether Haye can drag Fury into a brawl, much like Cunningham did (Furys game-plan went clear out of the window). If he can, Haye hits harder than Cunningham, it will be a Haye KO win.

[lefty]

Haye is giving away 6 inches in reach and height. Thats as well as over 40lbs based on their last fight weight and it shouldn't be ignored.

The last time we saw stats like that it was Valuev - who boxed all wrong and didn't use his size to keep Haye away from him. If Fury stays behind a jab, Haye will have an extremely tough time of it.

Haye can't put Fury to sleep if he can't get to him. It is definitely not a write off of a fight like say Harrison and Haye was.

A lot of this fight will hinge on whether Haye can drag Fury into a brawl, much like Cunningham did (Furys game-plan went clear out of the window). If he can, Haye hits harder than Cunningham, it will be a Haye KO win.

To be fair mate I dont think you can really compare Haye and Cunningham aside from size wise. As you said yourself, Haye hits far harder than Cunningham did who put Fury flat on his arse! Also Haye wont drag Fury into a brawl, that isnt how Haye fights. He likes to box on the outside and pot shot with a lot of power. Finally Cunningham never dragged Fury into a brawl, it was Fury who initiated those tactics as when he was boxing on the outside with Cunningham he was getting caught too much so he decided to use his size and extra weight to wear Cunningham down. Cunningham was still trying to box but Fury was mauling him around the ring and he just flat out couldnt cope with the size of Fury and he also generally speaking didnt have the power to keep Fury off of him although he still hit hard enough to put Fury down hard.

[Horse]

Haye fought both men at Crusierweight, how could Fury have beaten those versions?

x2

How was that post worth a "x2"?

The idea of Fury fighting a 200 lbs version of Mormeck or Maccarinelli at heavyweight is a crazy idea is it?

[keithmoonhangover]

The idea of Fury fighting a 200 lbs version of Mormeck or Maccarinelli at heavyweight is a crazy idea is it?

Put it this way Horse. Haye has stepped into the ring with the #1 fighter in two divisions and beaten one of them. Fury has yet to do that. Fury has yet to fight someone as highly ranked as Valuev.

[lefty]

Haye fought both men at Crusierweight, how could Fury have beaten those versions?

x2

How was that post worth a "x2"?

The idea of Fury fighting a 200 lbs version of Mormeck or Maccarinelli at heavyweight is a crazy idea is it?

well considering they were actually cruiserweights at the time, yes it actually is.

[Horse]

well considering they were actually cruiserweights at the time, yes it actually is.

You are not worth my time.

[lefty]

well considering they were actually cruiserweights at the time, yes it actually is.

You are not worth my time.

Well your inability to comprehend the simplest of points is rather tiresome.

[Horse]

Put it this way Horse. Haye has stepped into the ring with the #1 fighter in two divisions and beaten one of them. Fury has yet to do that. Fury has yet to fight someone as highly ranked as Valuev.

Haye's accomplishments at cruiserweight aren't worth a great deal at heavyweight.

How many top heavyweights would be able to beat both Mormeck and Maccarinelli at heavyweight? I'd say quite a lot.

[Horse]

This post was made by columbo who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

Rover II, you are awful.

[lefty]

Put it this way Horse. Haye has stepped into the ring with the #1 fighter in two divisions and beaten one of them. Fury has yet to do that. Fury has yet to fight someone as highly ranked as Valuev.

Haye's accomplishments at cruiserweight aren't worth a great deal at heavyweight.

How many top heavyweights would be able to beat both Mormeck and Maccarinelli at heavyweight? I'd say quite a lot.

Yeah but the point is they wernt and arent in Maccarinelli's case heavyweights! Thats the fornicating point!

[lefty]

This post was made by columbo who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

Rover II, you are awful.

Stop whining like the guy you hate, you little bitch

[Horse]

Yeah but the point is they wernt and arent in Maccarinelli's case heavyweights! Thats the effing point!

The point is those wins mean little at heavyweight.

Fury would beat those versions Haye beat if they put on a few pounds to attempt a run at heavyweight as well. Maccarinelli wouldn't be able to take much punishment and Mormeck is too small as shown by his real run at heavyweight.

[crusader]

Put it this way Horse. Haye has stepped into the ring with the #1 fighter in two divisions and beaten one of them. Fury has yet to do that. Fury has yet to fight someone as highly ranked as Valuev.

Haye's accomplishments at cruiserweight aren't worth a great deal at heavyweight.

How many top heavyweights would be able to beat both Mormeck and Maccarinelli at heavyweight? I'd say quite a lot.

Yeah but the point is they wernt and arent in Maccarinelli's case heavyweights! Thats the effing point!

And them not being heavyweights weakens the argument that Haye becoming undisputed or unified CW champ, which he did by beating them, suggests he's a level above Fury at HW.

There are no size restrictions in the heavyweight division, so Fury probably beating Mormeck and Enzo shouldn't be discounted even if it would largely be due to his size; size is a factor Haye must deal with.

[Exoddus]

I didn't think Fury would take the Pulev fight. I thought he would have fought Adamek instead. This make sense and could be the reason why David Haye pulled out of the Charr fight with an injured hand. He may have done the same thing with Vitali because Setanta was going under and there was a big possibility he wouldn't have got paid.

I don't blame Haye at all. In fact he's made some good decisions. There's no one who would rather see David fight Charr over Fury.

Oh, David Haye to win by KO in the first 3 rounds.

[DMA1987]

Haye is giving away 6 inches in reach and height. Thats as well as over 40lbs based on their last fight weight and it shouldn't be ignored.

The last time we saw stats like that it was Valuev - who boxed all wrong and didn't use his size to keep Haye away from him. If Fury stays behind a jab, Haye will have an extremely tough time of it.

Haye can't put Fury to sleep if he can't get to him. It is definitely not a write off of a fight like say Harrison and Haye was.

A lot of this fight will hinge on whether Haye can drag Fury into a brawl, much like Cunningham did (Furys game-plan went clear out of the window). If he can, Haye hits harder than Cunningham, it will be a Haye KO win.

To be fair mate I dont think you can really compare Haye and Cunningham aside from size wise. As you said yourself, Haye hits far harder than Cunningham did who put Fury flat on his arse! Also Haye wont drag Fury into a brawl, that isnt how Haye fights. He likes to box on the outside and pot shot with a lot of power. Finally Cunningham never dragged Fury into a brawl, it was Fury who initiated those tactics as when he was boxing on the outside with Cunningham he was getting caught too much so he decided to use his size and extra weight to wear Cunningham down. Cunningham was still trying to box but Fury was mauling him around the ring and he just flat out couldnt cope with the size of Fury and he also generally speaking didnt have the power to keep Fury off of him although he still hit hard enough to put Fury down hard.

If Fury stayed on the outside instead of losing his head and trying to walk Cunningham down he would have won that fight far cleaner. He even said himself afterwards that he didn't stick to his gameplan (not by decision, by red mist). If he keeps Haye away from him with a jab then Haye will have to take more risk to get to Fury.

And by Brawl, I mean that Has to get under Furys skin, or embarrass him, and make him want to brawl. Not necessarily brawl himself. If he can't and Fury used his reach properly it will be a far tougher fight for Haye.

I like Haye, I think he will win, but you can just overlook all of the physical advantages Fury has and write them off because Haye has power.

[Autobarn]

makes sense for fury - small world class cruiser last time (cunningham); big world class cruiser next time (haye).

and is forming a pattern in haye's body of work, taking the highest profile domestic matchups in both the cruiser and heavyweight divisions (macca, audley, chisora...).

obviously if haye lands clean like cunningham did, he'll probably win. fury may not be able to get up. it doesn't mean he will land his best shot, though.

i see a messy fight. haye running, reaching, fury holding, mauling.

WTF was that last page about? fury comparison with mormeck and macca? what's the point, different times, different divisions.