A new study has found that Scotland has the highest murder rate in the developed world.
Best article I've read in ages, by Irvine Welsh, here:
http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articl ... e_continue
Off topic - Scotland's murderous heart
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jomothepure
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jomothepure
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MightyWarrior
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Although Scotland is stereotypically full of pissheads (and as Welsh points out, you can't just point to this as binge drinking is ubiquitous across the UK) and violent crime, this article still shocked me.
Perhaps it's just a shrug of the shoulders from you Jomo and a sincere 'What?' because it's stuff you already know.
I thought to get across as much as he did in 2000 words was fantastic, notwithstanding the simple matter-of-factness of his penetrating arguments.
It would take a politician two teams of researchers a year to work out half of what Welsh puts forward and then they would take 500 pages to say it. He seems to lay out every problem and give a cause - if not solutions. He even distinguishes how Buckfast is more pernicious than the lager England is soaked in which may seem obvious but is still class.
My best mate is moving to Scotland in some deprived area to work as a social worker with kids. I don't envy him one bit.
Enjoy MW!!
Perhaps it's just a shrug of the shoulders from you Jomo and a sincere 'What?' because it's stuff you already know.
I thought to get across as much as he did in 2000 words was fantastic, notwithstanding the simple matter-of-factness of his penetrating arguments.
It would take a politician two teams of researchers a year to work out half of what Welsh puts forward and then they would take 500 pages to say it. He seems to lay out every problem and give a cause - if not solutions. He even distinguishes how Buckfast is more pernicious than the lager England is soaked in which may seem obvious but is still class.
My best mate is moving to Scotland in some deprived area to work as a social worker with kids. I don't envy him one bit.
Enjoy MW!!
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MightyWarrior
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jomothepure
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Over and out. Understood.
I agree, yes, it is a good piece by Welsh.
I'd probably say it is a shrug of the shoulders in a way. I was shocked in when it's put in the perspective that there are more murders in Scotland than in Israel.
But on the other hand, it is almost like it isn't happening. Pretty much every week there's something on the local news esp. about a murder of some sort or some death with no apparent motive and I suppose to an extent you just stop taking it in and looking for an explanation for these things.
I don't have the facts for this (thats another coronary for boxingchat) but I'd go along with Welsh that a lot of this is coming out of housing estates, presominantly Glasgow. I'm sorry to say race has a lot to do with it - the whole Sighthill 'thing' for one; and also general gangland shit. People thinking their the Krays. Drugs may be an easy lable to put the blame on, but they're involved as well
I agree, yes, it is a good piece by Welsh.
I'd probably say it is a shrug of the shoulders in a way. I was shocked in when it's put in the perspective that there are more murders in Scotland than in Israel.
But on the other hand, it is almost like it isn't happening. Pretty much every week there's something on the local news esp. about a murder of some sort or some death with no apparent motive and I suppose to an extent you just stop taking it in and looking for an explanation for these things.
I don't have the facts for this (thats another coronary for boxingchat) but I'd go along with Welsh that a lot of this is coming out of housing estates, presominantly Glasgow. I'm sorry to say race has a lot to do with it - the whole Sighthill 'thing' for one; and also general gangland shit. People thinking their the Krays. Drugs may be an easy lable to put the blame on, but they're involved as well
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Chesney_Chambers
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Re: Off topic - Scotland's murderous heart
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:A new study has found that Scotland has the highest murder rate in the developed world.
Best article I've read in ages, by Irvine Welsh, here:
http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articl ... e_continue
As you say Ian an excellently worded article, he raises some thought provoking points. Alot of the arguments apply to most BIG cities (bored youths, binge drinking, accepting prison as part of life, drugs), but they seem to be more widespread in parts of Scotland
Before I read that article, I was still under the impression that Glasgow was a reformed city since the 70's and 80's, it seemed to change its reputation when it was named the European city of culture (in my eyes anyway). I knew it still had its rough areas (what BIG cities don't), but didn't realise the extent of the problems (nationwide)
I was fooking gobsmacked to read that Scotland has a higher murder rate than the US (& Israle), its even more worrying when you consider the difference in the availability of guns between the 2 countries
I blame the weather
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Manos de Oro
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The article's good at highlighting the various problems, but does little to offer a solution. We need a cultural shift and then to build momentum, however the current 'system' seems - most importantly appears - to cater to the criminal rather than the victim, which makes a cultural shift completely impossible. Catch 22. We're talking 2020, even if then.
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Manos de Oro
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johnty1888
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Did anyone see McIntyre's Toughest Towns on CH5 the other week? He was in Glasgow and the knife culture up there is shocking. One shopkeeper was making a fortune off all the NED's (Non Educated Delinquents the Police were calling them) because he was selling them every knife he could lay his hands on. I would not be a Paramedic in that city for any price.
I read this thread in shock.
Asa native of the City of Glasgow and a former door steward in some of her finest drinking dens i was not surprised though.
Having faced the knife culture first hand I would agree that something like 9 out of 10 people (I include the girls here too) under 30 carry a knife or other sharp weapon.
As approx 90% of these murders are stabbings, think what it would be like if guns were available to buy in Asda (Wal-mart).
The Glasgow gang scene has never left us it has always been there. Only the housing estates are being knocked down and these gangs are being re-housed in other areas which then cauises more chaos in someone elses doorstep. And the talk of its only organised crime gangs are shit. Like I said 9 out of 10 are carrying weapons.
There was I last weekend listening to the WORLD's news. Hurricanes, Earthquakes, drought, starvation and a 35yr old man has been murdered in Glasgow tonght Police have their heads up their arses because they will never find the culprits.
It is a part of life here we as natives are immune to it.
Asa native of the City of Glasgow and a former door steward in some of her finest drinking dens i was not surprised though.
Having faced the knife culture first hand I would agree that something like 9 out of 10 people (I include the girls here too) under 30 carry a knife or other sharp weapon.
As approx 90% of these murders are stabbings, think what it would be like if guns were available to buy in Asda (Wal-mart).
The Glasgow gang scene has never left us it has always been there. Only the housing estates are being knocked down and these gangs are being re-housed in other areas which then cauises more chaos in someone elses doorstep. And the talk of its only organised crime gangs are shit. Like I said 9 out of 10 are carrying weapons.
There was I last weekend listening to the WORLD's news. Hurricanes, Earthquakes, drought, starvation and a 35yr old man has been murdered in Glasgow tonght Police have their heads up their arses because they will never find the culprits.
It is a part of life here we as natives are immune to it.
Never been to Scotland myself, and I certainly won't be any time soon after reading that. I don't want to be anywhere near a culture that apparently places so much importance on carrying a weapon on a night out.
I've always felt safe as houses in London, the only questionable incident I've witnessed in 4 years was one new years eve at Fridge Club where this guy pulled out a shooter on the dance floor after someone spilt wine on him. Slight overreaction.
I've always felt safe as houses in London, the only questionable incident I've witnessed in 4 years was one new years eve at Fridge Club where this guy pulled out a shooter on the dance floor after someone spilt wine on him. Slight overreaction.
Gordon - I'll put you in charge of the country for a week. What would your wish list be to solve these horrific problems you highlight? You must know the hard end more than I do (and fornicate - I do NOT want to experience it).Gordon wrote:I read this thread in shock.
Asa native of the City of Glasgow and a former door steward in some of her finest drinking dens i was not surprised though.
Having faced the knife culture first hand I would agree that something like 9 out of 10 people (I include the girls here too) under 30 carry a knife or other sharp weapon.
As approx 90% of these murders are stabbings, think what it would be like if guns were available to buy in Asda (Wal-mart).
The Glasgow gang scene has never left us it has always been there. Only the housing estates are being knocked down and these gangs are being re-housed in other areas which then cauises more chaos in someone elses doorstep. And the talk of its only organised crime gangs are shit. Like I said 9 out of 10 are carrying weapons.
There was I last weekend listening to the WORLD's news. Hurricanes, Earthquakes, drought, starvation and a 35yr old man has been murdered in Glasgow tonght Police have their heads up their arses because they will never find the culprits.
It is a part of life here we as natives are immune to it.
Ian
I wished I knew the answers. Its one of these things that will never go away unless kids are educated against it. Violence breeds violence, in Glasgow we not only have the N.E.D (Chavs for those South of the Border) culture there is also the crap that goes with the football.
In Glasgow you support one of the Old Firm. Queens Park, Clyde or Partick Thistle don't exist. You are approached in the street and asked are you one of them or one of us. I know both teams are trying to cut out bigotry but it has to be stamped out in the homes and at school.
I grew up with my best mate until we went to Primary School, we then went our separate ways as we went to different religious schools. We never got back on track again until our early 20's
A different atitude is needed in schools too. I don't want to get involved in religious politics here, hence the reason I now study Buddhism, but why do we need different schools foe different religions.
There is no easy answer to the problems that bring this beautiful country down. The drink/drugs culture is only an excuse, it goes deeper and darker than that.
How many Scots still hate our English neighbours.
We need to get down to the street level to re-educate before we can stop the bile and hatred that is becoming epidemic in our inner cities.
But its not just racial/religious/football.
Even if you dress differently, listen to different music, wrong sexual gender.
I spoke to a woman recently who was asked for a cigarette. When she said she didn't smoke, she was knocked to the ground and tramped on.
So its everywhere.
Walk to the intersection of Argyle Street & Union Street on a Saturday night. You have Pizza Hut, Mc D's, Pizza Italia and KFC. There is also approx 6 night clubs in the same area all spilling out looking for food.
Somewhere in the region of 1200-1500 bodies all spoiling for a fight. Is it any wonder that section of road is blocked every Weekend There are at least 6 Police Cars and 4 Ambulances in attendance.
My father in law is a retired Paramedic and they would be ordered to sit back and let the animals kill each other before going in and patching up the living.
So No, Jack McConnell and his people are welcome to their jobs cleaning up the strteets is not a job I envy anyone.
I've been on the wrong end of the stick too long, been facing charges for assault because I punched some arsehole for wanting to stab me.
You see because I'm an ex-boxer and a highly trained martial artist to boot I'm limited to what I can do and get away with. That is why I gave up the life of a bouncer. I watched a friend getting stabbed and I got arrested for beating the shit out of the guy with the knife.
So there are NO easy fixes to this solution
I wish there was
I wished I knew the answers. Its one of these things that will never go away unless kids are educated against it. Violence breeds violence, in Glasgow we not only have the N.E.D (Chavs for those South of the Border) culture there is also the crap that goes with the football.
In Glasgow you support one of the Old Firm. Queens Park, Clyde or Partick Thistle don't exist. You are approached in the street and asked are you one of them or one of us. I know both teams are trying to cut out bigotry but it has to be stamped out in the homes and at school.
I grew up with my best mate until we went to Primary School, we then went our separate ways as we went to different religious schools. We never got back on track again until our early 20's
A different atitude is needed in schools too. I don't want to get involved in religious politics here, hence the reason I now study Buddhism, but why do we need different schools foe different religions.
There is no easy answer to the problems that bring this beautiful country down. The drink/drugs culture is only an excuse, it goes deeper and darker than that.
How many Scots still hate our English neighbours.
We need to get down to the street level to re-educate before we can stop the bile and hatred that is becoming epidemic in our inner cities.
But its not just racial/religious/football.
Even if you dress differently, listen to different music, wrong sexual gender.
I spoke to a woman recently who was asked for a cigarette. When she said she didn't smoke, she was knocked to the ground and tramped on.
So its everywhere.
Walk to the intersection of Argyle Street & Union Street on a Saturday night. You have Pizza Hut, Mc D's, Pizza Italia and KFC. There is also approx 6 night clubs in the same area all spilling out looking for food.
Somewhere in the region of 1200-1500 bodies all spoiling for a fight. Is it any wonder that section of road is blocked every Weekend There are at least 6 Police Cars and 4 Ambulances in attendance.
My father in law is a retired Paramedic and they would be ordered to sit back and let the animals kill each other before going in and patching up the living.
So No, Jack McConnell and his people are welcome to their jobs cleaning up the strteets is not a job I envy anyone.
I've been on the wrong end of the stick too long, been facing charges for assault because I punched some arsehole for wanting to stab me.
You see because I'm an ex-boxer and a highly trained martial artist to boot I'm limited to what I can do and get away with. That is why I gave up the life of a bouncer. I watched a friend getting stabbed and I got arrested for beating the shit out of the guy with the knife.
So there are NO easy fixes to this solution
I wish there was
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E
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I read this article before and it shocked me a bit.
My friend was going to come down from Scotland but said she wouldn't get on the tube because of all the terrorist threats she had heard of. I told her she would be more likely to get killed staying in Scotland with its inflated murder rate.
And my Scottish friends are always telling me how friendly Glasgow is....
What I don't understand is why knives and stabbings are so acceptable.... I mean there is plenty of drunken violence in England, but these are punchups mainly, even if they do result in a lot of injury. Why is stabbing so commonplace in Scotland?
My friend was going to come down from Scotland but said she wouldn't get on the tube because of all the terrorist threats she had heard of. I told her she would be more likely to get killed staying in Scotland with its inflated murder rate.
And my Scottish friends are always telling me how friendly Glasgow is....
What I don't understand is why knives and stabbings are so acceptable.... I mean there is plenty of drunken violence in England, but these are punchups mainly, even if they do result in a lot of injury. Why is stabbing so commonplace in Scotland?
E
The surprising thing is Glasgow is a beautiful city. The architecture, museums, galleries are breathtaking.
The shopping is rated in the top ten in the world
The people ARE really warm and friendly.
However, after dark they seem to bark at the moon.
The city centre is bad at the weekends, but the housing schemes that perimeter the city are a breeding ground of hatred.
Unless you belong there and have lived there all your life they will smell you coming.
Glasgow is trying to rid itself of the " No Mean City " tag it has had for years but this recent trend is frightening.
Another thing that gets sickening especially to me is everytime you watch a TV drama the Scotsman is type cast as a drunken hardman.
Because of this a lot of them seem to think they have to live up to that image. aka Willie in the Simpsons.
The surprising thing is Glasgow is a beautiful city. The architecture, museums, galleries are breathtaking.
The shopping is rated in the top ten in the world
The people ARE really warm and friendly.
However, after dark they seem to bark at the moon.
The city centre is bad at the weekends, but the housing schemes that perimeter the city are a breeding ground of hatred.
Unless you belong there and have lived there all your life they will smell you coming.
Glasgow is trying to rid itself of the " No Mean City " tag it has had for years but this recent trend is frightening.
Another thing that gets sickening especially to me is everytime you watch a TV drama the Scotsman is type cast as a drunken hardman.
Because of this a lot of them seem to think they have to live up to that image. aka Willie in the Simpsons.
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kevin
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I know when I came up for the Harrison/Polo fight I was starving by the time I got back to my hotel, but they didn't do food that late and said there was a take away opposite. I ventured out, but it wasn't nice, drunks staggering everywhere and I got a few funny looks when I ordered my fish and chips with my London accent,
I was glad to get back to the safety of my hotel room that night
Kev
I was glad to get back to the safety of my hotel room that night
Kev