Rocky Marciano small heavyweight

[polecateddy]

For my money Johnny Nelson boxes Rocky's ears off. Against Lennox it would basically be the Glen McCory fight all over again!

Put the crack pipe down

I'm sorry but burst your delusions, but it us a fact that a lot of cruisers were better. Just because he was that size doesn't make him automatically the best. And realistically what could Rocky do better than Carl Thompson?

[kaiserbill]

In civilian life Marciano walked around as high as 250 pounds. What people don't grasp is that he trained down in weight, and he only trained that way because he knew it would take unbelievable conditioning to defeat superior talents and physically domineering opponents in the ring. If I am not mistaken, Marciano (prior to turning pro) once looked at an article on Joe Louis and seen it say that the then champion sparred thirty rounds a day, etc. to which Marciano thought for him to have a chance he would have to do twice as much work. The result was a man who did 10 miles of jogging plus 20 miles of walking, in combination with 40, 50, 50, etc. rounds of sparring daily, among other things. He threw as many punches, if not more so, in latter rounds as he did in the first. He could not be tired out, he averaged some 80-110 punches a round (a middleweight pace) and because of this amazing conditioning he was never really hurt or shook up in his career. The two times he was dropped, were for mere moments and were when he was off balance, not because he was jarred. He had a very underated ability to get inside on much taller, heavier opponents without taking much punishment. If you review tapes of his career, by the time he retired he was virtually a perfect swarmer, almost untouched on the way inside. In the beginning it is true he was a buller and took alot of shots, but Charlie Goldman turned him into something of an indestructable fighting machine. Had he not retired, he easily would have made the 50-0-0, if not went on to 55, 60-0-0 or better. There simply was nobody around to have given him problems; and because of that, he retired, cus nobody drew any interest. They were but boys against him.

As for Marciano against the modern heavyweights of today, I can see him defeating alot of them. Maybe he wouldnt have beaten the Klitschko's or Lennox Lewis, but can you really honestly defend the enormous, blubbering whales that are around today who throw less than 40 punches a round with no real foot work or technique or real skill? Alot of these men are as limited as Jess Willard ever was. Big men, equal big targets. Maybe Rocky wouldnt be knocking them out, but I cant see any of them really out working him either. He could bend down so deep, that if he employed such tactics on these giant men today, he would be so much incredibly smaller of a target to hit that all they would be able to touch would be the top of his head or his gloves. It would have been interesting, but Marciano proved time after time, he was capable of not only beating, but knocking out men who were taller, heavier, more skilled, and faster than he was. It isn't such a stretch of the imagination to think Marciano could decision or knockout someone like Michael Grant, Chris Arreola, etc.

A very good post.

Marciano indeed trained down to a trim fighting weight.

His training regime is legendary for good reason, and not just on boxing forums.
I was on a general fitness forum a while ago, and his name popped up whenever boxing was mentioned as an example of his incrediblly hard-willed training regime, and this from a fighter who didn't have to make a weight limit.
In fact, I think I recall he wasn't even aware of his weight most times, as it simply didn't bother him. He simply trained himself to the peak, which he realised he had to do.

It is well known he wouldn't see his family or take visits for months whilst training out in the Catskill mountains.

A lot of heavyweights actually bulk up in training.

A lot of heavyweights stated with some bemusement or bewilderment after fighting him that he actually wasn't easy to hit cleanly.

Ali himself had some very good things to say about him after sparring lightly with an overweight, middle aged Marciano as part of that gimmicky film fight thing.

If I recall, Ali basically said he was surprised at his strength, that it was difficult to keep him off you, and the fact that he wasn't that easy to hit cleanly as you would presume. And this was the slow, overweight, middle aged edition.


And yes, I do know it was a light sparring session, but it reinforces what other opponents said of Marciano in his prime.

[danconnollyeire]

For my money Johnny Nelson boxes Rocky's ears off. Against Lennox it would basically be the Glen McCory fight all over again!

Put the crack pipe down

I'm sorry but burst your delusions, but it us a fact that a lot of cruisers were better. Just because he was that size doesn't make him automatically the best. And realistically what could Rocky do better than Carl Thompson?

Johnny Nelson was shocking. We had the most padded WBO record of all time. Thompson was a stiff fighter who wasn't much better than European level. Marciano has a chin like steel and a workrate better than any modern dat LWH/Cruiser. He had MUCH better stamina than Nelson and could've easily outworked him over 12, 15 or even 20 rounds if he had to...

Nelson was one of the worst world champions of all time.

[polecateddy]

What are you on about? I take it you're American and watched bugger all of either fighter. Thompson could do everything Marciano could do, only better.

[danconnollyeire]

What are you on about? I take it you're American and watched bugger all of either fighter. Thompson could do everything Marciano could do, only better.

I'm from Walthamstow and have boxed my entire life. You are the only person who would ever say Nelson beats Marciano. He's not a better boxer, doesn't have the workout or power

[polecateddy]

What are you on about? I take it you're American and watched bugger all of either fighter. Thompson could do everything Marciano could do, only better.

I'm from Walthamstow and have boxed my entire life. You are the only person who would ever say Nelson beats Marciano. He's not a better boxer, doesn't have the workout or power

He had speed and skills. That's why he had a successful reign at cruiserweight, backed up by the toughness to go the distance with the likes of Corrie Sanders. It's nonsense to suggest Marciano had better skills.

[Tanzio]

I would love to see Wlad vs Marciano. I would favor Klit the younger but it would be interesting as long as it lasted. I assure you that Rocky could most definitely touch that chin, because he wouldn't bother aiming at it for the first 3 rounds, only attacking arms and body relentlessly.

Rocky never fought anything resembling Wlad, but the opposite is also true.

[polecateddy]

God help us! He was the best of his generation maybe, but still small, average on the speed department and heavy handed. He also cut easily. Plenty of better gighters have come along since. All this blanket bull that he could topple a Klitschko is tiresome. He would have been outgunned by most cruiser champs.

[Ezzard]

Holyfield was a Cruiser who used modern 'methods' to bulk up...and he took on the best HWs of recent times using a combination of a granite chin, an iron will and good work-rate (in the earlier years).

[Ezzard]

The versions of Walcott, Charles and Moore that Marciano beat would all be Cruiserweight legends today.

Crikes, Hopkins can take on mots Cruisers. I think Marciano would unify the titles and reign for a long time if he were around today.

[polecateddy]

Holyfield was a Cruiser who used modern 'methods' to bulk up...and he took on the best HWs of recent times using a combination of a granite chin, an iron will and good work-rate (in the earlier years).

Yeah, I'm not suggesting Marciano plus modern training. The zealots all say you could bring him as is, and this 13 stone man would tear through the present heavyweights like some sort of Tazmanian devil.

[polecateddy]

The versions of Walcott, Charles and Moore that Marciano beat would all be Cruiserweight legends today.

Crikes, Hopkins can take on mots Cruisers. I think Marciano would unify the titles and reign for a long time if he were around today.

Quick, fill me in. Which cruisers did Hopkins ever fight?

[polecateddy]

The versions of Walcott, Charles and Moore that Marciano beat would all be Cruiserweight legends today.

Crikes, Hopkins can take on mots Cruisers. I think Marciano would unify the titles and reign for a long time if he were around today.

The truth was that the versions of those fighters he fought we all a little old and shop-worn. Marciano rode his luck and then got out before Floyd Patterson bumped him off.

[Ezzard]

The versions of Walcott, Charles and Moore that Marciano beat would all be Cruiserweight legends today.

Crikes, Hopkins can take on mots Cruisers. I think Marciano would unify the titles and reign for a long time if he were around today.

The truth was that the versions of those fighters he fought we all a little old and shop-worn. Marciano rode his luck and then got out before Floyd Patterson bumped him off.

Walcott was champ, maybe he was a little over the brow but even so...he was the best in the world at the time...or supposedly... Charles was also over the brow but he put on a marvellous performance in the first fight and rolled back the years.

Moore...there was pressure from The Ring magazine writers to get that fight made. Moore did not go into that fight as a washed up has-been. He was the best contender out there.

I'm not going to argue Rocky could beat the Klits. He might spark Wlad...but I do believe size is an important factor...and too much of a difference here. I'd need to see how Rocky was after the juice boost.

But c'mon...Marciano would be Cruiser champ...and after Fury-Cunningham I'm pretty sure Rocky would have finished that job.

[polecateddy]

Maybe he could have had a run a cruiser title, but as he was he was hardly going to set the world on fire in the modern arena. Plenty of decent (and unsung) cruisers would have scalped him.

[Ezzard]

Other than Holyfield (who gives anyone a fight) who else do you think would/could beat him?

[polecateddy]

Other than Holyfield (who gives anyone a fight) who else do you think would/could beat him?

Carl Thompson would have beaten him at his own game!

[Ezzard]

Carl was a guy I always supported.

And you’d back him against Jersey Joe and Ezzard Charles too?

[polecateddy]

Style-wise Marciano was the best match. Carl's superior strength and power would have busted him up.

[Tanzio]

Style-wise Marciano was the best match. Carl's superior strength and power would have busted him up.

[kaiserbill]

Style-wise Marciano was the best match. Carl's superior strength and power would have busted him up.

Really now?????

I actually had to look up who the hell Carl Thompson was.

I found he was an alphabet cruiserweight champion who lost almost 20% of his fights.

He got stopped in 90% of his losses, by fighters such as Crawford Ashley (who?), Yawe Davis, Ralph Rocchegiani, Johnny Nelson, and Ezra Sellers (who?).

And this is the guy you say would beat Rocky Marciano?

Delusional.

(Posted for dramatic effect: I know who Thompson was, barely. He wouldn't last 6 rounds against Marciano, and I'm being charitable due to Marciano usually warming up for a couple of rounds. Thompson spent an awful amount of time on the canvas in his career. One could almost say he was fond of it.)

[polecateddy]

Style-wise Marciano was the best match. Carl's superior strength and power would have busted him up.

Really now?????

I actually had to look up who the hell Carl Thompson was.

I found he was an alphabet cruiserweight champion who lost almost 20% of his fights.

He got stopped in 90% of his losses, by fighters such as Crawford Ashley (who?), Yawe Davis, Ralph Rocchegiani, Johnny Nelson, and Ezra Sellers (who?).

And this is the guy you say would beat Rocky Marciano?

Delusional.

(Posted for dramatic effect: I know who Thompson was, barely. He wouldn't last 6 rounds against Marciano, and I'm being charitable due to Marciano usually warming up for a couple of rounds. Thompson spent an awful amount of time on the canvas in his career. One could almost say he was fond of it.)

Join the group marked delusional yourself! Carl was an excellent fighter who had a decent run as a champion.

[Tanzio]

Style-wise Marciano was the best match. Carl's superior strength and power would have busted him up.

Really now?????

I actually had to look up who the hell Carl Thompson was.

I found he was an alphabet cruiserweight champion who lost almost 20% of his fights.

He got stopped in 90% of his losses, by fighters such as Crawford Ashley (who?), Yawe Davis, Ralph Rocchegiani, Johnny Nelson, and Ezra Sellers (who?).

And this is the guy you say would beat Rocky Marciano?

Delusional.

(Posted for dramatic effect: I know who Thompson was, barely. He wouldn't last 6 rounds against Marciano, and I'm being charitable due to Marciano usually warming up for a couple of rounds. Thompson spent an awful amount of time on the canvas in his career. One could almost say he was fond of it.)

Join the group marked delusional yourself! Carl was an excellent fighter who had a decent run as a champion.

I suspect that you are related to Carl Thompson or you are indeed the boxer himself.

[HomicideHenry]

The versions of Walcott, Charles and Moore that Marciano beat would all be Cruiserweight legends today.

Crikes, Hopkins can take on mots Cruisers. I think Marciano would unify the titles and reign for a long time if he were around today.

The truth was that the versions of those fighters he fought we all a little old and shop-worn. Marciano rode his luck and then got out before Floyd Patterson bumped him off.

Are you insane? Don't you know anything about the history of Marciano?

Prior to when he retired, believe it or not, an exhibition match between him and Patterson was talked about and was to be live on the Gilette Cavalcade of Sports. Patterson at the time was only a light heavyweight, and no one was interested in doing the match cus the title wasn't on the line anyways. Marciano tried to get fights with Nino Valdes and Mike Baker, but both these men fought eachother in such a dismal performance that BOTH were thrown out of the running to face Marciano (you see back then MERIT got you contention, and not bullshit like today). The last man in line would have been Earl Walls, of Canada, but Walls retired from boxing rather than fight Rocky Marciano. Marciano, being left with no on else but a possible Moore rematch, stepped away from boxing 49-0-0, 43 kayos cus there was no one left to generate any kind of big money or interest. Sure, Marciano listed Patterson as one of his possible successors, but lets get real here when Marciano made the announcement Patterson only had two-three heavyweight fights. Wins over Tommy Jackson didn't mean shit, cus if you know anything at all Marciano used to beat Tommy Jackson so bad in sparring that he once hit the floor from a body shot and vomited.

Patterson may have been cute for Marciano in the first few stanzas, but he isnt going to go no eight, ten, twelve, or fifteen rounds with Rocky. It isn't happening.

[Cyclops]

To answer the original question he was definitely a small heavyweight and a slall cruiser weight by today's standards. Who knows how well he would have done against the modern cruiser weight era but I think it's fair to say he would have been in trouble against our modern breed of super heavyweights. Even the big cruisers who have moved up employ hit and hut tactics to get success against 6'5"+ guys and I'm not even sure Marciano was capable of doing that.

Wasn't someone posting a little while ago that he was really 5'9"? Or did I dream that?