question on raay robinson

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 26 Oct 2005, 19:10

did ray robinson ever get thoughts about stepping up and challening marciano the way he wanted to fight patterson??

if this fight would have taken place it would have been in 52, robinson was coming off a domintion over light-H joey maxim.

i no this would be a no contest, but in 52 robinson basically outclassed aa top light-H maxim and was at the top of the game, and he did want to fight floyd later in his career.

also marciano was 185 so it wouldnt be a total weight mismatch, thought 160 to 185 is alot bigger difference than 185 to 210.

also marciano knocked out robinsons idol louis.

- im suprised maxim didnt try to step up and fight rock like he did to charles when he was champion

-what made robinson think he could beat floyd

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 26 Oct 2005, 19:12

marciano would have possibly murdered SRR. i think srr thought he could beat floyd because floyd was a considerably small heavyweight who didnt really hit hard. i think he figured he could box with him, and if he didnt hit that hard, that he would be able to go with him

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 27 Oct 2005, 03:05

..no way...when robinson was asked, before the maxim fight if he cionsidered challenging ezzard charles, he said "What..man do you want to get me killed?!" so there's no way he would have even dreamt about fighting marciano. one reason he challenged maxim was maxim was not a puncher and also wouldn't be able to push him around the way marciano would....in addition to marciano being virtually immune to the sugar man's punching power. it was understood that robinson didn't intend to defend the light heavy title. if he won it...to many strong guys..and hard punchers in the division at that time.

maxim didn't have to go up much in weight when he challenged ezzard for ther title. they both started as middleweights..charles moved to light heavy and maxim actually fought as a heavyweight ..and was rated in the top ten in that division while charles was the top lightheavy..and later maxim dropped down to lightheavy where he won the title. i don't know the exact weights when he challenged ezzard for ther heavy title, but they would have been about the same weight.

check boxrec for the size difference between maxim and ollie tanberg when joey ruined the big guy's new york debut.
i would have liked to have seen maxim against marciano. maxim was stronger than he's usually considedered and had a great chin and was a defensive master......this could have given rocky trouble, except joey didn't have the power to hold marciano off. still...it might have been interesting to see.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 27 Oct 2005, 08:00

Rory McCloskey wrote:marciano would have possibly murdered SRR. i think srr thought he could beat floyd because floyd was a considerably small heavyweight who didnt really hit hard. i think he figured he could box with him, and if he didnt hit that hard, that he would be able to go with him

Floyd was essentially the same size as Rocky and he could punch pretty hard.

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 27 Oct 2005, 11:26

Geez Brockton, now you're starting to sound like "Shyguy".

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Oct 2005, 12:25

The Great John L wrote:
Rory McCloskey wrote:marciano would have possibly murdered SRR. i think srr thought he could beat floyd because floyd was a considerably small heavyweight who didnt really hit hard. i think he figured he could box with him, and if he didnt hit that hard, that he would be able to go with him
Floyd was essentially the same size as Rocky and he could punch pretty hard.

yea but floyd wasnt as strong as marciano, couldnt hit as hard, wasnt as tough, wasnt as aggresive, didnt have as good a chin, wasnt as ferocious, and didnt drain every ounce of life out of an opponent like marciano did

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 27 Oct 2005, 12:43

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:yea but floyd wasnt as strong as marciano, couldnt hit as hard, wasnt as tough, wasnt as aggresive, didnt have as good a chin, wasnt as ferocious, and didnt drain every ounce of life out of an opponent like marciano did

Take a deep breath.

I wasn't making ANY statement about Marciano. I was just taking exception to Rory's remarks about Floyd's size and the fact that he didn't punch hard, which is just not true. He was essentially the same size as Rocky and I'm sure he was quite strong -- certainly stronger than SRR.

The End · Post by **The End** » 27 Oct 2005, 15:06

Rory McCloskey wrote:marciano would have possibly murdered SRR. i think srr thought he could beat floyd because floyd was a considerably small heavyweight who didnt really hit hard. i think he figured he could box with him, and if he didnt hit that hard, that he would be able to go with him

What makes you think Floyd couldn't hit hard?

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 27 Oct 2005, 15:20

I remember somewhere seeing that if Robinson did beat Maxim, he was headed for Marciano.It was years ago in some article.Another question was, was he avoided at lightweight too?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Oct 2005, 15:21

o john L, im not denying the fact floyd pattersson would have beaen SRR.

in fact floyd would have dominated robinson knocking him out.

- but robinson wanted to fight floyd rather tha marciano because he was less intimidting. just watching marciano break peopls arms, and ruin them so they will never be the saame again is more intimidating to robinson then patterson getting floored by a fighter in his opening debut.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 27 Oct 2005, 20:09

The End wrote:
Rory McCloskey wrote:marciano would have possibly murdered SRR. i think srr thought he could beat floyd because floyd was a considerably small heavyweight who didnt really hit hard. i think he figured he could box with him, and if he didnt hit that hard, that he would be able to go with him
What makes you think Floyd couldn't hit hard?

im saying he didnt hit that hard. guys that hit THAT hard are guys like rocky. rocky was strong and hit hard and was unbeleivabley relentless and aggressive

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 28 Oct 2005, 01:17

..the earliest rating in ring magazine i can find for the sugarman is 1942...welterweight number one contender. i think he flew through the lightweight limit pretty fast, so i don't know that he was ducked by anyone there.

look....all this talk about robinson going after patterson, let alone marciano was just that...talk for publicity. all the boxing inside..and no big secret..was that he did not even consider going after any light heavies but maxim. he wanted that third title and was either going to retire if he won it or drop back down to middle. just check out his weight in the maxim fight....he was NOT going to fight in the heavier division. he ended his career as a middleweight and made that weight easily.

re: ollie tandberg....he was billed as something of a near giant when he beat joe baksi, knocking killing the former's shot at joe louis, was boxed silly by maxim and kayoed by jersey joe and as far as i know was never heard from again. i think he was taller and heavier than box rec shows....at least he was promoted that way.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Oct 2005, 02:49

thank jaclem for the insight

- thats interesting bout ollie tanberg, only time i remembered him was getting knocked out by walcott and losing to maxim. didnt know too much about the baski fight and how to public viewed him

fight fan · Post by **fight fan** » 28 Oct 2005, 14:48

Floyd was definitely less intimidating and physical style-wise than Rocky, but Floyd certainly hit hard! Much harder than anything Robinson was used to getting hit with at middleweight!! Ray would have made it a fight just due to his greatness, but I think he would have bitten off more than he can chew with Floyd Patterson. Patterson KO8

BAD INTENTIONS · Post by **BAD INTENTIONS** » 29 Oct 2005, 01:35

sugar robinson is quite possibly the number one pound for pound kingll time! please dont disrespect a man of that distinction by claiming he wouldve been murdered by marciano. marciano couldve tried to bully him, however robinson had no problem fightin after being hurt. he wouldve also made him look like he was in slow motion, while pacing the fight with his FAR SUPERIOR SKILLS. yeh, yeh, yeh ... marciano did go 49-0. how about robinson's 128-1 start. plus u have to factor in the ignorant racism he faced which definately affected the fights and scorecards. for some weird reason, he is a forgotten man amongst pop culture's great boxers.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 29 Oct 2005, 14:18

..sugar ray robinson forgotten? come on, this has to be a "see who bites on this one" post. The sugarman is still regarded among 99% of those who have even the skimpiest interest in boxing as probably the greatest fighter ever. plus, saying he wouldn't be able to withstand marciano's charges denigrates his skills is ridiculous. I'm one who thinks the sugarman's record may be the finest in boxing's history, but that doesn't mean he could beat a strong heavyweight. As i've written before, when asked if he would like to challenge ezzard charles, his reply was, "Man, do you want to get me killed?"

If we're going by impressive wins alone, then the marvelous record of willie pep would give him a chance to make a fool out of jersey joe walcott!

okay...i've bitten. finis.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 29 Oct 2005, 22:51

look badintentions, were talking about the greatest welter/middle who ever lived vs one of the greatest HEAVYWEIGHTS of all time. robinson is the best fighter who ever lived but he fought at 147 and 160 lbs. marciano on the other hand is a heavyweight not to mention one of the best heavies who ever lived. robinson never fought a man like marciano. marciano far too big, strong, powerful for SRR.

robinson had an incredible chin and was never knocked out, but if he faced marciano or patterson he would have been. were talking about two hard hitting heavies.

this is like saying carlos monzon could last against joe louis.

robinson vs marciano would be like a mongoose, going up against a king anaconda. it wouldnt just be another snake, it would be a much to big snake and a deadly one.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 30 Oct 2005, 00:10

this would be a massacre. i dont know why this is under queston hahah... rocky would simply be too big and too strong for the nuch smaller srr. although srr is a beter BOXER, it wouldnt be enough to overcome the adversity that rocky brings to the matchq