Rocky Marciano small heavyweight

[Controversial]

I found that webpage shortly before I posted it above ...long, long after all this Marciano stuff started. And come to think of it I actually had a letter published in Boxing News towards the end of Johnny Nelson's reign, that in fact Johnny would have beaten Rocky Marciano. That was in the ballpark of 13 years ago!

Sure, and the website just happened to quote you word for word, how very strange.

[polecateddy]

I found that webpage shortly before I posted it above ...long, long after all this Marciano stuff started. And come to think of it I actually had a letter published in Boxing News towards the end of Johnny Nelson's reign, that in fact Johnny would have beaten Rocky Marciano. That was in the ballpark of 13 years ago!

Sure, and the website just happened to quote you word for word, how very strange.

It was already my opinion, just put more in context of the 200 pound limit quite well. I didn't cut and paste it, it's how I remembered it. This Marciano thing has been running for weeks - that was last night! I'm sure I have a copy of my letter to Boxing News somewhere. I may scan it for you when I get back to the UK.

[Ezzard]

I found that webpage shortly before I posted it above ...long, long after all this Marciano stuff started. And come to think of it I actually had a letter published in Boxing News towards the end of Johnny Nelson's reign, that in fact Johnny would have beaten Rocky Marciano. That was in the ballpark of 13 years ago!

Crikes Polcecat…this runs deep with you.

Is your point that Marciano wasn’t that good? Or that he was too small? Or that he wasn’t on the juice available to fighters today?

[polecateddy]

I found that webpage shortly before I posted it above ...long, long after all this Marciano stuff started. And come to think of it I actually had a letter published in Boxing News towards the end of Johnny Nelson's reign, that in fact Johnny would have beaten Rocky Marciano. That was in the ballpark of 13 years ago!

Crikes Polcecat…this runs deep with you.

Is your point that Marciano wasn’t that good? Or that he was too small? Or that he wasn’t on the juice available to fighters today?

I remember the letter got a couple of 'anti' replies in the weeks afterward :) I don't mind saying Marciano was the best of his time. But I felt Nelson was a good example of a modern athletic boxer, and that he would have had the speed and skills to at least outpoint him. Perhaps even get a cuts stoppage. I personally don't like all the default talk of Marciano having the ability to beat to beat up a Bowe or a Lewis, or the tough brother, Vitali. I like to think outside the box and also include this controversial concept that in fact a lot of good cruisers and light-heavies from the last 30 years could have also got the win.

[Ezzard]

Modern athletic? This is the bit I don't get.

Ali is over 30 years ago...and yes, fighting much bigger guys would cause him problems but, in his prime, he'd beat everyone out there right now.

Hagler's last fight was 25 years ago but he'd beat the best out there today. And I rate Martinez, think he's a top fighter too.

Congrats on the letter.

[polecateddy]

I don't mind Hagler beating most, or Ali for that matter. Although gor my money Ali would have struggled mightily with the size of the Klitschkos and Lewis. I'm confident Lewis and Vitali would have beaten Ali. And to be fair your Bowes and Holyfields may well too. Not to mention Wlad. But that's off topic. Marciano was 5'10'' and 185 pounds. He's not a giant killer!

[Ezzard]

Surely he can squash cruisers though?

[polecateddy]

Surely he can squash cruisers though?

But why should he? Which athlete born in 1923 would be a world champion today? He wouldn't ...they wouldn't!

[SamWise72]

Surely he can squash cruisers though?

But why should he? Which athlete born in 1923 would be a world champion today? He wouldn't ...they wouldn't!

The reason he should is because he was very, very good, and trained harder than anyone. There's not a jot of logic in your assumption that guys from the 50's couldn't compete today, not a tiny sausage. Marco Huck is very like Marciano, but doesn't hit as hard, and he seems to do ok. 2 inches taller, similar style, but doesn't have the same ability to sustain his attack right through the round, and doesn't have the one punch stopping power either. It's hard to imagine how you wouldn't look at Marciano and see him winning that one, or Nelson. As for the suggestion that Carl Thompson would beat him....it makes me think you either haven't seen Thompson fight, or you haven't seen Marciano.

[Ezzard]

Surely he can squash cruisers though?

But why should he? Which athlete born in 1923 would be a world champion today? He wouldn't ...they wouldn't!

If you mean because he'd be 90 tears of age now, sure...

But other than that, why not?

[Controversial]

I found that webpage shortly before I posted it above ...long, long after all this Marciano stuff started. And come to think of it I actually had a letter published in Boxing News towards the end of Johnny Nelson's reign, that in fact Johnny would have beaten Rocky Marciano. That was in the ballpark of 13 years ago!

Sure, and the website just happened to quote you word for word, how very strange.

It was already my opinion, just put more in context of the 200 pound limit quite well. I didn't cut and paste it, it's how I remembered it. This Marciano thing has been running for weeks - that was last night! I'm sure I have a copy of my letter to Boxing News somewhere. I may scan it for you when I get back to the UK.

Wrong, your copy and paste was posted on the 18th June in the morning and the link to the webpage you copied it from you posted later on the same day. The argument about Marciano has been running for decades its not a new train of thought, and in many cases I agree Marciano would struggle as sometimes sheer strength and natural size can be a factor.

If a 5'5" (yes 5'5") former light-heavyweigth/cruiserweight with no amateur experience, aged 35 and grossly overweight and out of shape can go 7 rounds and actually hold his own against the BIG version of Foreman (without hitting the floor) then I'm sure a peak Marciano would also hold his own against some of the big boys as well, possibly winning a few along the way.

[SamWise72]

If a 5'5" (yes 5'5") former light-heavyweigth/cruiserweight with no amateur experience, aged 35 and grossly overweight and out of shape can go 7 rounds and actually hold his own against the BIG version of Foreman (without hitting the floor) then I'm sure a peak Marciano would also hold his own against some of the big boys as well, possibly winning a few along the way.

A fighter, lest we forget, who gave Holyfield an absolute war for 15 rounds as well in their first meeting. How can that be, since he was only 5'5", and once fought at Light Heavy? Surely it's impossible....

[polecateddy]

It was already my opinion, just put more in context of the 200 pound limit quite well. I didn't cut and paste it, it's how I remembered it. This Marciano thing has been running for weeks - that was last night! I'm sure I have a copy of my letter to Boxing News somewhere. I may scan it for you when I get back to the UK.[/quote]

Wrong, your copy and paste was posted on the 18th June in the morning and the link to the webpage you copied it from you posted later on the same day. The argument about Marciano has been running for decades its not a new train of thought, and in many cases I agree Marciano would struggle as sometimes sheer strength and natural size can be a factor.

If a 5'5" (yes 5'5") former light-heavyweigth/cruiserweight with no amateur experience, aged 35 and grossly overweight and out of shape can go 7 rounds and actually hold his own against the BIG version of Foreman (without hitting the floor) then I'm sure a peak Marciano would also hold his own against some of the big boys as well, possibly winning a few along the way.[/quote]

Assumptions make a what ...I'm in Australia. Not morning and night at all. And it wasn't cut and pasted! Lol Just remembered. I was looking for Rocky's height and found that. It's hardly that exciting. I posted the link myself after all :)

[SamWise72]

Whatever you do, don't address what we both said about Qawi, in case it weakens your bizarre belief that humans today are way better than humans 50 years ago.

[polecateddy]

Whatever you do, don't address what we both said about Qawi, in case it weakens your bizarre belief that humans today are way better than humans 50 years ago.

Wow, it's hardly far off the mark to suggest sports science has come on leaps and bounds. There isn't a sportsman born in 1923, that could be transported as they were and become a world champion today. Not in any sport and not in boxing.

[SamWise72]

Many sports have changed fundamentally as a result of improvements in sports science, but boxing has changed little. Watch Marco Huck vs Ola Afolabi, or Froch Kessler, and you'll see impressive feats of stamina. Watch Marciano or Sugar Ray Robinson, and you'll see arguably even more impressive feats of stamina. Mayweather has become a legend by being a throwback, both in how he fights and in how (and how much) he trains. Hopkins has made himself an icon by learning every OLD trick in the book. You have failed to produce anything like evidence that fighters hit harder now to support your idea that punchers from then would be non punchers now, and your argument that smaller fighters can't compete with bigger ones has been comprehensively debunked. If you like, we can come up with lots of examples of how swarmers can beat boxers too. If fighters today were that much better, their hands would move faster, they would score more KOs, and show greater stamina than boxers of the past. NONE of those things is true. Heavyweights, undeniably are BIGGER, and pretty much everyone agrees that the really big guys, as well as the very best boxers, would be likely to beat Marciano, but the contention that loads of cruiserweights would beat him simply on the basis of being born 50 years later? Nonsense.

[polecateddy]

Many sports have changed fundamentally as a result of improvements in sports science, but boxing has changed little. Watch Marco Huck vs Ola Afolabi, or Froch Kessler, and you'll see impressive feats of stamina. Watch Marciano or Sugar Ray Robinson, and you'll see arguably even more impressive feats of stamina. Mayweather has become a legend by being a throwback, both in how he fights and in how (and how much) he trains. Hopkins has made himself an icon by learning every OLD trick in the book. You have failed to produce anything like evidence that fighters hit harder now to support your idea that punchers from then would be non punchers now, and your argument that smaller fighters can't compete with bigger ones has been comprehensively debunked. If you like, we can come up with lots of examples of how swarmers can beat boxers too. If fighters today were that much better, their hands would move faster, they would score more KOs, and show greater stamina than boxers of the past. NONE of those things is true. Heavyweights, undeniably are BIGGER, and pretty much everyone agrees that the really big guys, as well as the very best boxers, would be likely to beat Marciano, but the contention that loads of cruiserweights would beat him simply on the basis of being born 50 years later? Nonsense.

I can only pray that at some point soon someone invents a computer program that can calculate speed and power, and put all this poo to bed. I would wager that Marciano would not be able to keep up with either Huck or Froch in training. As there is no data for old school boxers, I dont know how I'm going to prove that strength, stamina and speed in the average pro today is markedly superior to Rocky's era.

[Controversial]

Assumptions make a what ...I'm in Australia. Not morning and night at all. And it wasn't cut and pasted! Lol Just remembered. I was looking for Rocky's height and found that. It's hardly that exciting. I posted the link myself after all :)

Give me a break, the website link you posted was on the very same day as your exactly worded post, don't try and argue it is pure coincidence you happen to stumble upon a website that coincidently quoted you word for word. Copy and paste, simple. Busted.

I can only pray that at some point soon someone invents a computer program that can calculate speed and power, and put all this poo to bed. I would wager that Marciano would not be able to keep up with either Huck or Froch in training. As there is no data for old school boxers, I dont know how I'm going to prove that strength, stamina and speed in the average pro today is markedly superior to Rocky's era.

This goes to show prove how basic your thought process is. Boxing is full of upsets, inferior boxers on paper beating ATGs. You can come up with stats all you want, they mean very little. How may cruisers or heavies could fight at the pace Marciano fought for 15 rounds? Most of the lumbering heavyweights are blown out after a few rounds, even David Haye a fighter who is ripped, looks after himself and utilises all the modern training methods can't fight for 2 minutes a round, let alone 3 and he starts blowing after 5 rounds.

So please explain how a grossly overweight, out of shape, 5'5", 35 year old Qawi managed to win rounds and stay on his feet against the one of the hardest punching fighters in history? He was a lot shorter than Marciano, no where near the physical condition and didn't punch anywhere near as hard either. Surely Foreman should have taken about 15 seconds to demolish him?

[polecateddy]

Yawn. Plenty of cruisers fight at Rocky's mythical pace. Didnt have diddy arms, so he had to keep working? Bet you could do a punches thrown in an average Rocky fight and it wouldn't be so astounding!

[Controversial]

Yawn. Plenty of cruisers fight at Rocky's mythical pace. Didnt have diddy arms, so he had to keep working? Bet you could do a punches thrown in an average Rocky fight and it wouldn't be so astounding!

Haha, oh dear, are you struggling to back your arguments up, thats normally the response from someone without anything to say.

You better get googling and paste someone else's replies soon. Just the answer to diddy Qawi would be a start.

[polecateddy]

Yawn. Plenty of cruisers fight at Rocky's mythical pace. Didnt have diddy arms, so he had to keep working? Bet you could do a punches thrown in an average Rocky fight and it wouldn't be so astounding!

Haha, oh dear, are you struggling to back your arguments up, thats normally the response from someone without anything to say.

You better get googling and paste someone else's replies soon. Just the answer to diddy Qawi would be a start.

I think Qawi was smarter and better than you're giving him credit for. He outfoxed James Scott after all.

[SamWise72]

Yawn. Plenty of cruisers fight at Rocky's mythical pace.

You don't actually watch boxing, do you? No, they don't. A very few do; Qawi vs Holyfield is a rare example, Huck vs Afolabi, as wonderful as those fights were, doesn't measure up. Also, nobody here is dissing Qawi; I personally believe him to be one of the best cruiserweights in history, and he was very definitely a smart tactical fighter, which is why he could do what he did against Foreman even being horribly out of shape. He was winning the fight. This guy, remember, had lost in 4 rounds to Holyfield, who is already a small heavyweight, but could do 7 very competitive rounds against Foreman, and only quit because at 220lbs he had limited stamina. What this shows, if you can't recognise it, is that a good little guy can give a good big guy a very tough night. This is the point.

[Controversial]

Yawn. Plenty of cruisers fight at Rocky's mythical pace. Didnt have diddy arms, so he had to keep working? Bet you could do a punches thrown in an average Rocky fight and it wouldn't be so astounding!

Haha, oh dear, are you struggling to back your arguments up, thats normally the response from someone without anything to say.

You better get googling and paste someone else's replies soon. Just the answer to diddy Qawi would be a start.

I think Qawi was smarter and better than you're giving him credit for. He outfoxed James Scott after all.

I never said Qawi was bad and you haven't answered the question.

[polecateddy]

What question? Qawi at his best was better than Rocky. Course he was!

[SamWise72]

What question? Qawi at his best was better than Rocky. Course he was!

The question was, if a 5'5 light heavy can compete with the big version of George Foreman, why can't a 5'11 natural cruiser hold his own against bigger fighters? But enough. You're trolling. You'll happily dismiss any fighter we name from the last 30 years as better than Marciano as if it were a foregone conclusion.