Hatton: I'd quit over Warren

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 28 Oct 2005, 08:46

Perhaps if he was in the US surrounded by fighters of a comparable standard and stars far bigger than himself he would need to be raring to go, as it stands he has his own little manchester superstar bubble, enough money and fame to set him up for life and a box at his beloved citeh.
Its a frightening thought that perhaps ricky hatton has peaked.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Oct 2005, 08:47

It will be interesting to see who Hatton fights. Despite all the talk about wanting the biggest challenges, we've seen nothing to indicate that Hatton has any intention of doing so.

Maussa makes sense as a unification fight, to make it easier to negotiate the big fights, but I'm not convinced that Hatton wasn't complicit in taking fights against easy opponents for big money. After all, he put up with it for a long long time for someone who was desperate for the big fights. When he finally got the biggest fight out there, he buggered off.

I have a nasty feeling that we may see a string of defences against also-rans followed by retirement. Good luck to Ricky if he manages to make himself rich, but a defining fight against an elite level fighter would be great for the sport and great for his fans.

There remain question marks over Tszyu, and just how fit and up for it he was, but we may never know the answer to that.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 28 Oct 2005, 08:48

silkov wrote:I think its pretty sad that Hatton only seems interested in a few fat paydays and then quitting to go on some marathon pub run. All this talk of retirement shows that his appetites are mainly for beer and kebabs these days. This is a guy 28 in his prime who should rearing to go and prove himself a great fighter. In fact he's just looking for his big payoff.

That's bollox. Hatton clearly wants the biggest fights he can get. I can say he's trying to get this fight and you can say he isn't, obviously only his close team would know the truth for sure, anything else is conjecture BUT your conclusion is based on what exactly?

Every interview I see with Hatton he states how much he wants to go and become a legend and fight and beat the best.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 28 Oct 2005, 08:58

Goz wrote:
silkov wrote:I think its pretty sad that Hatton only seems interested in a few fat paydays and then quitting to go on some marathon pub run. All this talk of retirement shows that his appetites are mainly for beer and kebabs these days. This is a guy 28 in his prime who should rearing to go and prove himself a great fighter. In fact he's just looking for his big payoff.
That's bollox. Hatton clearly wants the biggest fights he can get. I can say he's trying to get this fight and you can say he isn't, obviously only his close team would know the truth for sure, anything else is conjecture BUT your conclusion is based on what exactly?

Every interview I see with Hatton he states how much he wants to go and become a legend and fight and beat the best.

But he's been singing that song for a long time now and its my guess that he is just doing it now to excuse him taking on Maussa next.
The fact that he's threatened to retire over Warren seems to indicate that Ricky is almost looking for an excuse to retire. If he was up and raring to be a legend then he'd be willing to fight Warren in every court in the land and the last thing he'd want to do is retire.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:04

Seems a bit strong for Hatton to be saying he'd rather retire than work with FW again ( and no way will he retire anytime soon - he loves the game too much I reckon ) I'm not exactly sure what FW has done to him that was so damaging - has he said? I can't recall reading it....

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:10

yep, something along the lines of

"risking my health by putting me in with top level fighters over and over whilst defending my title"

I kid you not.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
liamlion wrote:
boxingchat wrote:And in the meantime he will continue driving the flash 4 X 4 'Warren' bought him!!
With whose money???

I think youll find the money that Allegedly spent on Hatton, was from the same pot of money that Hatton had made for Allegedly! In which case Hatton was effectively paying for the vehicle, whether or not the cheque was signed by him or Allegedly.
That's a little ridiculous... After all, if I were to say to you I would make you 4 million quid in about 6 years, but I wanted a cut, would you be pissed off.

Youre right, but what is proper ridiculous is the reality of a promoter allegedly taking a 50% cut. If I found out you were to "make" me £4m in 6 years that included me getting my head punched in, but found out that off the back of me risking my health you were making exactly the same amount, I would think that is ridiculous.

Who exactly is the one making who the money? Clearly you think promoters make a fighter his money, but I dont...remember the fight game is fornicate all without fighters. Sure promoters make it television and spectator friendly, but if you just had promoters there is one certainty; you wouldnt have the fight business.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:24

Without TV and spectators , what you have is two fighters fighting for bugger all.

Have you seen the paperwork to prove Warren took 50%?

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:26

Did he make the money off hatton or off shows involving hatton and other fighters?

i.e - 50% of hattons purse or the ticket sales from the shows equating to a comparable amount to hattons purse?

The million dollar question is of course would ricky be where he is today without Warren.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:36

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Without TV and spectators, what you have is two fighters fighting for bugger all.

Do you? What about the likes of Las Vegas, Atlantic City...casinos? Fighters have traditionally made money off a percentage of money gambled on their fights. Sure its not the figures offered by TV companies, but it certianly "isnt bugger all".

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Have you seen the paperwork to prove Warren took 50%?

No, pure hearsay hence the term 'allegedly'.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:40

Do you? What about the likes of Las Vegas, Atlantic City...casinos? Fighters have traditionally made money off a percentage of money gambled on their fights. Sure its not the figures offered by TV companies stations, but it certianly "isnt bugger all".

Would that be legal in the UK?
If that happened at York Hall the fighter would make all of £50.
What sort of money do fighters make off a deal like that (typically) ?

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 28 Oct 2005, 09:53

Wales wrote:
Do you? What about the likes of Las Vegas, Atlantic City...casinos? Fighters have traditionally made money off a percentage of money gambled on their fights. Sure its not the figures offered by TV companies stations, but it certianly "isnt bugger all".
Would that be legal in the UK?
If that happened at York Hall the fighter would make all of £50.
What sort of money do fighters make off a deal like that (typically) ?

It wouldnt be legal in the England and Wales, but im basically saying that this was the way fighters across the world made money years ago, before the introduction of mass TV - hence the involvement of gangsters and most notably the mafia who themselves used to take a percentage on the gambling takings, evidenced notably by the Jake LaMotta story.

To give an example of how US casinos have dealt with this age-old idea in modern times, consider Mike Tyson when he got out of Prison in 1995(?). The MGM Grand Hotel in Vegas offered Tyson something like a 6 fight-$150m deal. The finance behind the deal was that the MGM knew people would flock for the fights and gamble huge sums. MGM as the house, knew they would take a considerable amount of money, hence they broke their neck to get Tyson. Tyson was effectively paid (in advance) by money gambled on his fights at the MGM, by the MGM.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:16

So it wouldnt have and would never work for Hatton then.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:21

Wales wrote:So it wouldnt have and would never work for Hatton then.

I didnt realise Ricky doesnt have a passport?? Nor had I heard that the pending legislation on the laxing of member-only Casinos (that would lead to the introduction of US style casino-resorts) within England and Wales had been shelved?

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:44

You didnt know ricky didnt have a passport... do any of warrens fighters have a passport.

No in all seriousness, this would not work for ricky, No TV so no exposure, hence a small ginger kid form manchester turns up in las vegas asking for a cut of what the bookmakers make on him fighting. This may have workd in the 60's but not in the 21st century.
The alternative

The relaxation of the laws on gambling, american style casinos....

You will never get the volume of betting you get in Las Vegas, the gambling capital of the world, in sunthorpe or blackpool. Quite simply without TV rights it would be near impossible to attract the finances required for Hatton ring entrance, nevermind purse, trainers fees, expenses etc...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:45

liamlion wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Without TV and spectators, what you have is two fighters fighting for bugger all.
Do you? What about the likes of Las Vegas, Atlantic City...casinos? Fighters have traditionally made money off a percentage of money gambled on their fights. Sure its not the figures offered by TV companies, but it certianly "isnt bugger all".

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Have you seen the paperwork to prove Warren took 50%?
No, pure hearsay hence the term 'allegedly'.

Sure, that's why all the big name fighters promote themselves and King, Arum, Golden Boy, Main Events and the Duvas have empty stables of fighters. If it were that easy, they'd all be doing it.

Promoters get the site fee and distribute it, big casinos are hardly going to rely on a fighter to promote himself in the hope of attracting more punters when they can get a promoter to do a proper job.

Name me one major league fighter who does so?

Why in fucks name do you think Hatton signed with Warren in the 1st place, because he liked the cuts of his trousers? No, he knew he'd get the best paydays and opportunities.

There

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:45

I think the retirement threat was just that a threat to add weight to his courtcase.

Ricky loves fighting in front of 1000s of Mancs, and many people in his shoes would take easy fights for big money, time will tell if Ricky wants to go life and death against the best out there for the sake of boxing history.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Name me one major league fighter who does so?

Roy Jones Jr. Has done it on his own for almost every single fight of his career - dealt with a casino that is, without a promoter.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:57

So Roy Jones made his money without TV?

Good one.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 28 Oct 2005, 10:59

Roy Jones may have "self promoted" but he was managed and led along very very well.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 28 Oct 2005, 11:01

and bankrolled by HBO.

liamlion · Post by **liamlion** » 28 Oct 2005, 11:05

jamesmcdonnell wrote:So Roy Jones made his money without TV? Good one.

Where have you even mentioned TV????....This is what you wrote...

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Sure, that's why all the big name fighters promote themselves and King, Arum, Golden Boy, Main Events and the Duvas have empty stables of fighters. If it were that easy, they'd all be doing it.

Promoters get the site fee and distribute it, big casinos are hardly going to rely on a fighter to promote himself in the hope of attracting more punters when they can get a promoter to do a proper job.

Name me one major league fighter who does so?

I was responding to what youve written above, you make no mention of fighters who have made it without TV or EVEN ask the question? But instead you make the point that Casinos are more interested in working with Promoters...to which I answered that Roy Jones JR was an example of a "major league fighter" who has dealt with casinos without a promoter.

With regards TV, I acknowldege that in our times it is the most lucrative and common source of revenue for a fighter. I agree no elite fighter will have made it big without such TV exposure because if a fighter is creating waves, soon enough a TV company will persue and ultimately snap them up - that is the nature of the beast in today's world. But if TV was taken out of the equation, ie as the case was in the late 1800s and through the first half of the 20th century, fighters still made good money from boxing.

If TV disappeared today, im sure top fighters would again link up with casinos and gambling syndicates for their main (and lucrative) source of revenue on the basis that a major source of revenue still remains that which is recieved from the venue which stages the show.

The fact that so many big fights are held in big Vegas casinos highlights the fact that these casinos are offering much more money than other venues across the world. Why? Because the Vegas casinos are financing their offers to stage the fights on the basis that they will take huge money on the events from gambling.