IT'S NOW A DECADE SINCE LENNOX LEWIS VS VITALI KLITSCHKO

[loaded_gloves]

Ten years and one day since the last evenly matched, genuinely important, all-action world heavyweight title fight took place, a crude but incredible brawl that was worthy of the division's rich history.

Ten years since boxing had a heavyweight champion who was world recognised as undisputed.

And since then? Some 16, 17 'heavyweight champions', most of whom were inflicted upon us by the WBO and the WBA.

What a sad ten years it has been for boxing.

[Quixall]

There is no heavyweight division in the sense that it actually means anything these days. Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe were the last of the truely great heavyweights. Once the Klitschko's dissapear, the division will sink into obscurity. At one time it was the champions league of it's day, but now it has fallen to the levels of league one and the championship at best to make the analogy. As for that fight, i can remember it well. I thought a few times that Lennox was on the verge of getting knocked out. I think if Klitschko hadn't of had that cut eye he would have stopped Lennox that night. Apparently, Klitschko was drafted in to the fight at short notice, as Kirk Johnson had to pull out. Lennox said that he had been preparing for a different opponent, hence his bad performance, but from the look of him i don't think hehad prepared much at all. He looked heavy, old, sluggish and disinterested. The shape he came in that night reminded me of teh shape he came in at the first fight with Rahman. I think Lennox new his time was up after that fight and wisely left the sport in my opinion.

[Bard of Boxrec]

There is no heavyweight division in the sense that it actually means anything these days. Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe were the last of the truely great heavyweights. Once the Klitschko's dissapear, the division will sink into obscurity. At one time it was the champions league of it's day, but now it has fallen to the levels of league one and the championship at best to make the analogy. As for that fight, i can remember it well. I thought a few times that Lennox was on the verge of getting knocked out. I think if Klitschko hadn't of had that cut eye he would have stopped Lennox that night. Apparently, Klitschko was drafted in to the fight at short notice, as Kirk Johnson had to pull out. Lennox said that he had been preparing for a different opponent, hence his bad performance, but from the look of him i don't think hehad prepared much at all. He looked heavy, old, sluggish and disinterested. The shape he came in that night reminded me of teh shape he came in at the first fight with Rahman. I think Lennox new his time was up after that fight and wisely left the sport in my opinion.

Some of that I agree with but I think Lewis would have won if it had continued. At the time I was watching it I thought Lewis was in trouble early doors too, and so did the commentators, but he wasn't badly hurt at all when you watch it again. I was really disappointed they didn't have a rematch. I think a focused Lewis would have beaten Vitali, even if the 38 year old version had trained harder, but the problem was the pace Vitali set, it wouldn't have been a comfortable night for Lennox whichever version of him showed up.

[Quixall]

There is no heavyweight division in the sense that it actually means anything these days. Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe were the last of the truely great heavyweights. Once the Klitschko's dissapear, the division will sink into obscurity. At one time it was the champions league of it's day, but now it has fallen to the levels of league one and the championship at best to make the analogy. As for that fight, i can remember it well. I thought a few times that Lennox was on the verge of getting knocked out. I think if Klitschko hadn't of had that cut eye he would have stopped Lennox that night. Apparently, Klitschko was drafted in to the fight at short notice, as Kirk Johnson had to pull out. Lennox said that he had been preparing for a different opponent, hence his bad performance, but from the look of him i don't think hehad prepared much at all. He looked heavy, old, sluggish and disinterested. The shape he came in that night reminded me of teh shape he came in at the first fight with Rahman. I think Lennox new his time was up after that fight and wisely left the sport in my opinion.

Some of that I agree with but I think Lewis would have won if it had continued. At the time I was watching it I thought Lewis was in trouble early doors too, and so did the commentators, but he wasn't badly hurt at all when you watch it again. I was really disappointed they didn't have a rematch. I think a focused Lewis would have beaten Vitali, even if the 38 year old version had trained harder, but the problem was the pace Vitali set, it wouldn't have been a comfortable night for Lennox whichever version of him showed up.

I will have to watch the fight again Riddock. From waht i can remember, Lennox just looked out of shape and fatigued that night. It was perhaps more tiredness than actual punches landing, but there were one or two moments when i got off my chair in desperation that one of my idols my be knocked out. I too think they should have had a re-match and i think a fully focused and trim Lennox would have stopped Klitschko, but he was 38 years old and could see the exit door looming on the horizon. I think that Lennox under-estimated Klitschko who at that time didn't have the name or reputation he enjoys today and has done in recent years. I too think that the pace of the pace of the fight would have been difficult for Lennox. He was an ageing champion who had nothing left to prove against an up and coming guy with everything to prove and that night he got a little lucky in my opinion.

[Bard of Boxrec]

This is such a fascinating fight. I've just watched it again. Lewis started bouncing in round 3 and actually seemed sharper with the shots he did throw the longer it went on, despite his obvious fatigue. That famous uppercut in the 6th was a monster, credit to Vitali for taking it. Lennox landed a few cuffing shots but never anything as flush as that uppercut. On the other hand Vitali landed a lot of flush shots but didn't have the power to finish the job. Despite Lennox being old and fat he showed everyone he still had a ton of heart. I have no doubt after this latest viewing Lewis would have stopped Vitali, whichever version of either turned up at any time in their careers. Great brawl, very sad to see the end of an era.

[loaded_gloves]

I rewatched it the other day, in full.

Vitali looked to me to have shot his bolt. Lennox was throwing some heavy leather in the fifth and sixth rounds. Both men were tired, but we know Lennox would fight through a torrid struggle, as he did Mercer and Mavrovic- neither of whom were ever gasping like Vitali.

The 'if he hadn't been cut' argument is immaterial. He was cut, by punches. It's a boxing match. Lennox Lewis was hitting him in ways none of the oafs he has boxed since ever could, nor the slew of B-level men he boxed beforehand.

It's embarrassing that the division is becoming so overpopulated by towering uncoordinated giants. It's a degrading spectacle, and must look more like wrestling to a casual sports fan rather than the immense high level athleticism of so many Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis bouts.

Worst of all is that ten years have passed by- Lewis/Klit seems like last month to me. OH, GOD!

[loaded_gloves]

This is such a fascinating fight. I've just watched it again. Lewis started bouncing in round 3 and actually seemed sharper with the shots he did throw the longer it went on, despite his obvious fatigue. That famous uppercut in the 6th was a monster, credit to Vitali for taking it. Lennox landed a few cuffing shots but never anything as flush as that uppercut. On the other hand Vitali landed a lot of flush shots but didn't have the power to finish the job. Despite Lennox being old and fat he showed everyone he still had a ton of heart. I have no doubt after this latest viewing Lewis would have stopped Vitali, whichever version of either turned up at any time in their careers. Great brawl, very sad to see the end of an era.

Yep, Vitali just didn't have the power to take Lewis out, he couldn't do it early at full strength and at midway he was waning.

Vitali's technique is just so poor when matched against an elite fighter who challenges him and hits him back- how could he not struggle and get hit with his left hand way down by his hip, as if he was boxing some journeyman or clueless fatso who couldn't make him pay? His limitations were exactly why he was so horrifically chopped up and finding the bout such an ordeal. Not everyone eats jabs like Samuel Peter, Danny Williams, and Kevin Johnson and all the others. His determination was fearsome but all his stylistic mistakes cost him in his one foray into something near the true elite.

[expe]

This is such a fascinating fight. I've just watched it again. Lewis started bouncing in round 3 and actually seemed sharper with the shots he did throw the longer it went on, despite his obvious fatigue. That famous uppercut in the 6th was a monster, credit to Vitali for taking it. Lennox landed a few cuffing shots but never anything as flush as that uppercut. On the other hand Vitali landed a lot of flush shots but didn't have the power to finish the job. Despite Lennox being old and fat he showed everyone he still had a ton of heart. I have no doubt after this latest viewing Lewis would have stopped Vitali, whichever version of either turned up at any time in their careers. Great brawl, very sad to see the end of an era.

Yep, Vitali just didn't have the power to take Lewis out, he couldn't do it early at full strength and at midway he was waning.

Vitali's technique is just so poor when matched against an elite fighter who challenges him and hits him back- how could he not struggle and get hit with his left hand way down by his hip, as if he was boxing some journeyman or clueless fatso who couldn't make him pay? His limitations were exactly why he was so horrifically chopped up and finding the bout such an ordeal. Not everyone eats jabs like Samuel Peter, Danny Williams, and Kevin Johnson and all the others. His determination was fearsome but all his stylistic mistakes cost him in his one foray into something near the true elite.

That's the big difference between the Klitschkos, one has a glass jaw but is impossible to hit, you can get to the other but he's got a granite chin.

[Quixall]

I rewatched it the other day, in full.

Vitali looked to me to have shot his bolt. Lennox was throwing some heavy leather in the fifth and sixth rounds. Both men were tired, but we know Lennox would fight through a torrid struggle, as he did Mercer and Mavrovic- neither of whom were ever gasping like Vitali.

The 'if he hadn't been cut' argument is immaterial. He was cut, by punches. It's a boxing match. Lennox Lewis was hitting him in ways none of the oafs he has boxed since ever could, nor the slew of B-level men he boxed beforehand.

It's embarrassing that the division is becoming so overpopulated by towering uncoordinated giants. It's a degrading spectacle, and must look more like wrestling to a casual sports fan rather than the immense high level athleticism of so many Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis bouts.

Worst of all is that ten years have passed by- Lewis/Klit seems like last month to me. OH, GOD!

Your comment about the cut happenning with punches is obviously true, it wasn't done with head clashes, but i have been watching boxing for years and that is one of the worst cuts i have ever seen. I think it was 50-50 who would have come out on top if the fight hadn't have been stopped. I totally agree loaded about the state of the heavyweight division these days. You do get some apologists who try and make that it's no different to when Tyson first broke the scene or Holmes was around in his hey day. To be honest, i don't know what they are looking at half of the time. The likes of Witherspoon, Tucker, Lyle, Berbick, Smith, Thomas et al would have been dominating the division these days. The Klitschko's are good, but not brilliant and rely on a set formula that sees them take no averse risks. They are allowed to stay in that comfort zone because the opposition lacks the quality to take them out of their comfort zone. I think you are right when you say that the casual fan must think they are watching a wrestling match. Tyson Fury is typical of that bread. All his fights tend to resemble pub car park fights. They are fairly exciting because of the unpredictability, as was the case with the Cunningham fight, but as for athleticism and boxing talent, forget it.

[loaded_gloves]

Yep, agree with everything you say.

[Quixall]

This is such a fascinating fight. I've just watched it again. Lewis started bouncing in round 3 and actually seemed sharper with the shots he did throw the longer it went on, despite his obvious fatigue. That famous uppercut in the 6th was a monster, credit to Vitali for taking it. Lennox landed a few cuffing shots but never anything as flush as that uppercut. On the other hand Vitali landed a lot of flush shots but didn't have the power to finish the job. Despite Lennox being old and fat he showed everyone he still had a ton of heart. I have no doubt after this latest viewing Lewis would have stopped Vitali, whichever version of either turned up at any time in their careers. Great brawl, very sad to see the end of an era.

Yep, Vitali just didn't have the power to take Lewis out, he couldn't do it early at full strength and at midway he was waning.

Vitali's technique is just so poor when matched against an elite fighter who challenges him and hits him back- how could he not struggle and get hit with his left hand way down by his hip, as if he was boxing some journeyman or clueless fatso who couldn't make him pay? His limitations were exactly why he was so horrifically chopped up and finding the bout such an ordeal. Not everyone eats jabs like Samuel Peter, Danny Williams, and Kevin Johnson and all the others. His determination was fearsome but all his stylistic mistakes cost him in his one foray into something near the true elite.

That's the big difference between the Klitschkos, one has a glass jaw but is impossible to hit, you can get to the other but he's got a granite chin.

Wladimir Klitschko isn't impossible to hit. Corrie Sanders and Brewster proved that. He isn't hit these days because of the calibre of the opposition. They dominate in a terrible division where talent doesn't exist. That is why Cunningham, Adamek and Haye have tried their hand, becuase they felt they could do well as smaller guys in a bigger division because their is a complet lack of quality. Roy Jones didn't take on Lewis or Tyson for a reason lol. Wladimir can be hit, but you need guys who have the talent to do so and they just simply are not around anymore.

[Deserter]

Wladimir Klitschko isn't impossible to hit. Corrie Sanders and Brewster proved that. He isn't hit these days because of the calibre of the opposition.

It's ridiculous to claim that the Vlad that faced Sanders and Brewster is the same fighter as the one he is today. He and his team clearly learnt from those fights and his style developed to make him harder to hit. All fighters evolve and to fail to acknowledge that Vlad has is doing him a disservice.

[Quixall]

Wladimir Klitschko isn't impossible to hit. Corrie Sanders and Brewster proved that. He isn't hit these days because of the calibre of the opposition.

It's ridiculous to claim that the Vlad that faced Sanders and Brewster is the same fighter as the one he is today. He and his team clearly learnt from those fights and his style developed to make him harder to hit. All fighters evolve and to fail to acknowledge that Vlad has is doing him a disservice.

All fighters evolve, yes, but his opposition has also evolved in that it has got worse over the years. It's not a ridiculous statement at all. It's certainly a ridiculoous statement to say that Wladimir is "impossible" to hit. The Klitschko's look dominant and unbeatable largely because of the quality of the opposition they face, which is poor at best. A lot of people try and make out that Wladimir is somehow one of the true greats of heavyweight boxing, but to me you can only be judged on who you fight and he hasn't fought what i would call a quality opponent in years. This isn't Wladimir's fault and he can only fight who is out there and with what is out there he does well and dominates, but he fights within a style adopted after his knock out losses, a style craved out by Steward, but one that is never truely tested because there aren't any fighters out there who have the ability to take him out of his comfort zone.

[Deserter]

Wladimir Klitschko isn't impossible to hit. Corrie Sanders and Brewster proved that. He isn't hit these days because of the calibre of the opposition.

It's ridiculous to claim that the Vlad that faced Sanders and Brewster is the same fighter as the one he is today. He and his team clearly learnt from those fights and his style developed to make him harder to hit. All fighters evolve and to fail to acknowledge that Vlad has is doing him a disservice.

All fighters evolve, yes, but his opposition has also evolved in that it has got worse over the years. It's not a ridiculous statement at all. It's certainly a ridiculoous statement to say that Wladimir is "impossible" to hit. The Klitschko's look dominant and unbeatable largely because of the quality of the opposition they face, which is poor at best. A lot of people try and make out that Wladimir is somehow one of the true greats of heavyweight boxing, but to me you can only be judged on who you fight and he hasn't fought what i would call a quality opponent in years. This isn't Wladimir's fault and he can only fight who is out there and with what is out there he does well and dominates, but he fights within a style adopted after his knock out losses, a style craved out by Steward, but one that is never truely tested because there aren't any fighters out there who have the ability to take him out of his comfort zone.

I'm not arguing about the level of opposition and you actually seem to be agreeing he's evolved and become harder to hit. Hence my point that to use Sanders and Brewster is a fallacy because the version of Vlad that's been around for the past few years would have beaten them comfortably... hence my problem with you referencing them as 'proof'. Haye has far better handspeed than Brewster yet wasn't able to land on Vlad cleanly and consistently.

[expe]

Wladimir Klitschko isn't impossible to hit. Corrie Sanders and Brewster proved that. He isn't hit these days because of the calibre of the opposition.

It's ridiculous to claim that the Vlad that faced Sanders and Brewster is the same fighter as the one he is today. He and his team clearly learnt from those fights and his style developed to make him harder to hit. All fighters evolve and to fail to acknowledge that Vlad has is doing him a disservice.

All fighters evolve, yes, but his opposition has also evolved in that it has got worse over the years. It's not a ridiculous statement at all. It's certainly a ridiculoous statement to say that Wladimir is "impossible" to hit. The Klitschko's look dominant and unbeatable largely because of the quality of the opposition they face, which is poor at best. A lot of people try and make out that Wladimir is somehow one of the true greats of heavyweight boxing, but to me you can only be judged on who you fight and he hasn't fought what i would call a quality opponent in years. This isn't Wladimir's fault and he can only fight who is out there and with what is out there he does well and dominates, but he fights within a style adopted after his knock out losses, a style craved out by Steward, but one that is never truely tested because there aren't any fighters out there who have the ability to take him out of his comfort zone.

Maybe impossible isn't the right word, but he is very difficult to hit. That style makes him hard to hit, hiding his glass chin, better fighters may well expose that, but no one has been able to. To take him out of his comfort zone you either have to be quick, like Haye who didn't exactly make the best go of it, or bigger than him, like Fury, to make it hard for him to control distance and when he's on the inside he can't lean on you and sap your strength like he normally does.

[Quixall]

All fighters evolve, but my point stands in that he isn't hit because the opposition isn't cabaple of working him out. That isn't because Steward designed a full proof style that would be impossible to beat, it's simply because of the quality of the opposition who are a few leagues below Wladimir. How do you know with such confidence that Brewster and Sanders would lose to the all new powerful and impregnable Wladimir. You can say it and you may be right, but's just words and you can't say for sure. What you can say for sure is that the opponents he has faced in recent years have been woefully short in terms of physicality, technique and experience. Haye was and is a blown up cruiserweight who gained a version of the world title because, and once again, the quality of the opposition. The main reason that he lost to Wladimir and i am not saying he would have won, is because he was simply too small and couldn't get the range he needed to use his speed and counter punch. Haye could have gone inside and threw punches and when he did, suprise suprise, he hit Wladimir and had some success. Yes, the same Wladimir who is "impossible" to hit. The only problem was that Haye wasn't prepared to trade with a man who was bigger than him in case he got caught and looked a dumpling by getting knocked out after all that trash talk for months leading up to the fight.

[Deserter]

I can't say it for sure, of course I can't, but what I can say with absolute certainty, and that you yourself acknowledge, is that Vlad has evolved and has become harder to hit. Therefore, using logic, you can't use them as proof that present-day Vlad is hittable.
For what it's worth (and to prevent this becoming about semantics), I think Vlad would have still handled the likes of Holyfield and Frazier i.e. smaller heavies, but the peak Lewis and Bowe would have stopped him. Would have loved to see Holmes versus Vlad - great battle of the jabs.

[Bard of Boxrec]

All fighters evolve, but my point stands in that he isn't hit because the opposition isn't cabaple of working him out. That isn't because Steward designed a full proof style that would be impossible to beat, it's simply because of the quality of the opposition who are a few leagues below Wladimir. How do you know with such confidence that Brewster and Sanders would lose to the all new powerful and impregnable Wladimir. You can say it and you may be right, but's just words and you can't say for sure. What you can say for sure is that the opponents he has faced in recent years have been woefully short in terms of physicality, technique and experience. Haye was and is a blown up cruiserweight who gained a version of the world title because, and once again, the quality of the opposition. The main reason that he lost to Wladimir and i am not saying he would have won, is because he was simply too small and couldn't get the range he needed to use his speed and counter punch. Haye could have gone inside and threw punches and when he did, suprise suprise, he hit Wladimir and had some success. Yes, the same Wladimir who is "impossible" to hit. The only problem was that Haye wasn't prepared to trade with a man who was bigger than him in case he got caught and looked a dumpling by getting knocked out after all that trash talk for months leading up to the fight.

Spot on

it seriously irks me when people think the Wlad we see today is a 'new and improved version' compared to the Sanders version.

If anything he has got worse. He used to be an impressive offensive fighter at least (well, as impressive as you can be with such a limited arsenal) but now he employs jab and grab and is terrified to throw the right hand against almost anyone.

This version would have suffered the same fate against Brewster and Sanders, as those guys are live bodies who come forward and set a pace. Wlad being more cautious (read, scared to throw) might allow him to last a bit longer than he did as his younger self, but that's it. He couldn't deal with pressure before and just because he hasn't been pressured by the corpses he has been facing people seem to think he's a better fighter now.

[Deserter]

All fighters evolve, but my point stands in that he isn't hit because the opposition isn't cabaple of working him out. That isn't because Steward designed a full proof style that would be impossible to beat, it's simply because of the quality of the opposition who are a few leagues below Wladimir. How do you know with such confidence that Brewster and Sanders would lose to the all new powerful and impregnable Wladimir. You can say it and you may be right, but's just words and you can't say for sure. What you can say for sure is that the opponents he has faced in recent years have been woefully short in terms of physicality, technique and experience. Haye was and is a blown up cruiserweight who gained a version of the world title because, and once again, the quality of the opposition. The main reason that he lost to Wladimir and i am not saying he would have won, is because he was simply too small and couldn't get the range he needed to use his speed and counter punch. Haye could have gone inside and threw punches and when he did, suprise suprise, he hit Wladimir and had some success. Yes, the same Wladimir who is "impossible" to hit. The only problem was that Haye wasn't prepared to trade with a man who was bigger than him in case he got caught and looked a dumpling by getting knocked out after all that trash talk for months leading up to the fight.

Spot on

it seriously irks me when people think the Wlad we see today is a 'new and improved version' compared to the Sanders version.

If anything he has got worse. He used to be an impressive offensive fighter at least (well, as impressive as you can be with such a limited arsenal) but now he employs jab and grab and is terrified to throw the right hand against almost anyone.

This version would have suffered the same fate against Brewster and Sanders, as those guys are live bodies who come forward and set a pace. Wlad being more cautious (read, scared to throw) might allow him to last a bit longer than he did as his younger self, but that's it. He couldn't deal with pressure before and just because he hasn't been pressured by the corpses he has been facing people seem to think he's a better fighter now.

Couldn't disagree more.

[Quixall]

I can't say it for sure, of course I can't, but what I can say with absolute certainty, and that you yourself acknowledge, is that Vlad has evolved and has become harder to hit. Therefore, using logic, you can't use them as proof that present-day Vlad is hittable.
For what it's worth (and to prevent this becoming about semantics), I think Vlad would have still handled the likes of Holyfield and Frazier i.e. smaller heavies, but the peak Lewis and Bowe would have stopped him. Would have loved to see Holmes versus Vlad - great battle of the jabs.

Deserter, all fighters get hit. This is boxing and even the fighters with the best defence, aka Mayweather can get hit as we saw in the Mosley fight and others. My point is simple really. Wladimir doesn't get hit as often because the opposition doesn't have the ability, technique, fighting style and sometimes even the will to hit him. The opposition is simply awful and that is the main reason why he doesn't get hit. Of course, it would be churlish to say that Steward didn't alter Wladimir and one of the main reasons for working with Steward was because Wladimir had been on wobbly legs too often, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's largely down to the quality of who he faces these days. I would agree with you that the Klitschko's would have been a handfull in any era and that is primarliy down to their size. The only thing i would say Deserter is that the likes of Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield and Holmes were more rounded fighters and could adapt to their opponents. The Klitschko's are too one dimentional, something that would have been highlighted against truely elite fighters of the heavyweight division.

[Deserter]

I can't say it for sure, of course I can't, but what I can say with absolute certainty, and that you yourself acknowledge, is that Vlad has evolved and has become harder to hit. Therefore, using logic, you can't use them as proof that present-day Vlad is hittable.
For what it's worth (and to prevent this becoming about semantics), I think Vlad would have still handled the likes of Holyfield and Frazier i.e. smaller heavies, but the peak Lewis and Bowe would have stopped him. Would have loved to see Holmes versus Vlad - great battle of the jabs.

Deserter, all fighters get hit. This is boxing and even the fighters with the best defence, aka Mayweather can get hit as we saw in the Mosley fight and others. My point is simple really. Wladimir doesn't get hit as often because the opposition doesn't have the ability, technique, fighting style and sometimes even the will to hit him. The opposition is simply awful and that is the main reason why he doesn't get hit. Of course, it would be churlish to say that Steward didn't alter Wladimir and one of the main reasons for working with Steward was because Wladimir had been on wobbly legs too often, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's largely down to the quality of who he faces these days. I would agree with you that the Klitschko's would have been a handfull in any era and that is primarliy down to their size. The only thing i would say Deserter is that the likes of Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield and Holmes were more rounded fighters and could adapt to their opponents. The Klitschko's are too one dimentional, something that would have been highlighted against truely elite fighters of the heavyweight division.

I'm not really arguing with you mate. I agree with the vast majority of the above, though I don't think Vitali is as one-dimensional as Vlad. I also think we need to bear in mind that we all tend to view fighters from the past in higher regard - with Holyfield we ignore the performances against Bert Cooper and John Ruiz, while with Bowe we focus on his far too brief peak and gloss over the Golota battles etc.

[Quixall]

All fighters evolve, but my point stands in that he isn't hit because the opposition isn't cabaple of working him out. That isn't because Steward designed a full proof style that would be impossible to beat, it's simply because of the quality of the opposition who are a few leagues below Wladimir. How do you know with such confidence that Brewster and Sanders would lose to the all new powerful and impregnable Wladimir. You can say it and you may be right, but's just words and you can't say for sure. What you can say for sure is that the opponents he has faced in recent years have been woefully short in terms of physicality, technique and experience. Haye was and is a blown up cruiserweight who gained a version of the world title because, and once again, the quality of the opposition. The main reason that he lost to Wladimir and i am not saying he would have won, is because he was simply too small and couldn't get the range he needed to use his speed and counter punch. Haye could have gone inside and threw punches and when he did, suprise suprise, he hit Wladimir and had some success. Yes, the same Wladimir who is "impossible" to hit. The only problem was that Haye wasn't prepared to trade with a man who was bigger than him in case he got caught and looked a dumpling by getting knocked out after all that trash talk for months leading up to the fight.

Spot on

it seriously irks me when people think the Wlad we see today is a 'new and improved version' compared to the Sanders version.

If anything he has got worse. He used to be an impressive offensive fighter at least (well, as impressive as you can be with such a limited arsenal) but now he employs jab and grab and is terrified to throw the right hand against almost anyone.

This version would have suffered the same fate against Brewster and Sanders, as those guys are live bodies who come forward and set a pace. Wlad being more cautious (read, scared to throw) might allow him to last a bit longer than he did as his younger self, but that's it. He couldn't deal with pressure before and just because he hasn't been pressured by the corpses he has been facing people seem to think he's a better fighter now.

I agree Riddick,

Whenever i see Wladimir fight, he jabs, jabs, jabs, throws a right quicky and grabs. He does it in every fight. Now, realistically, how difficult is that to combat ?? Not difficult at all, but as you say, you have to have a modicum of talent and more importantly have the intent to try and take a fight to him. Wladimir has done a trade off. He has abandoned much of his former offensive style to look boring, pedestrian and predictable with his new defensive style. I watched one fight with Wladimir and his opponent just literally stood in front of him and didn't punch him for about three rounds and i'm not joking either. So, with opposition like that, which is only slightly more dangerous than a punch bag, it's quite obvious that Wladimir will be seen as the man who can't be hit or beaten. Reminds me of that Bruce Lee film where a guy is breaking boards with his fists looking good and Lee replies "Boards, don't hit back........." Could apply to Wladimir, i wonder if he was watching.

[funso banjo baby]

in the 1990's pay per view and the emerging russian/eastern euro scene led inevitably to the death of heavyweight boxing in america.

lennox v vitali was def the last great match

just afterwards we were tempted with a very decent scrap in Vitali v Corrie Sanders which was a pretty much bona fide title fight.

then Vitali went on a half a decade break in order to practice not leaving his chin out EVER AGAIN !

Wlad the Paler then took over the strings.

then the two of them spent the remainder of their careers NEVER FIGHTING A NUMBER ONE CONTENDER !!!!

so ended the heavyweight division.

for now !

[rob h]

I disagree with the comment about Sanders being a live body.

[loaded_gloves]

If Sanders and Brewster went swinging nukes at Wlad today the same thing would happen. Brewster in particular followed him when he jumped straight back - they were all over him with big shots and, even though Wladimir has developed a fencing coma-inducing style, aggressive fast handed big hitters would still get to him.

He's very fortunate the field has devolved so starkly just as he developed the worst style of heavyweight boxing ever seen.