What Must Froch, Khan, Burns...do to join British Greats?

[Ezzard]

Great topic…

Froch is there. He’s done it.

Haye gets a lot of abuse but he did great things at Cruiser and anything at heavy is a bonus. I’d say he’s a British great already…but I know some will disagree.

Burns…very, very close…perhaps hold the title for another 2 years…or win a unification fight as is being suggested.

Khan might have had some defeats but he’s also got some good wins. If he can fight all or some of Bradley, Alexander, Brook, Peterson, Gurerro and Berto…and win as many as he loses then he’d have to be in.

[whiskey]

I bash Khan often...

But if Eubank , Benn & Collins are considered "greats" when they barely did anything at world level apart from fight each other and maybe a Stateside cameo fight...

...Then Khan has to be considered a great too.

[Ezzard]

I bash Khan often...

But if Eubank , Benn & Collins are considered "greats" when they barely did anything at world level apart from fight each other and maybe a Stateside cameo fight...

...Then Khan has to be considered a great too.

Bit unfair on Benn, mate…?

[Autobarn]

i'm optimistic about McDonnell.

he's one of the most correct and sharp british fighters I've seen in a long time, perhaps since "hoko" hodkinson himself.

the skin and chin of "hoko" did not hold up when he fought hard Mexican bastards, and he wasn't a champ for long despite being believed destined for greatness.

McDonnell's certainly not as aggressive a fighter, but he has that well-balanced, beautiful, correct way of doing things. and he took on a hard Mexican, in a close fight, and finished the stronger - surely removing any doubt to close a superb IBF bantam 12-rounder.

he wasn't down and he wasn't banged up or bleeding. that, and his fitness and adaptability, make me think this guy can be champ for a long time in a good division. unless he struggles to make 118.

seeing him win the hard 12 rounders in classics v jamoye, hall (whom he was supposed to be "ducking") and ceja, it's clear that he's a guy in a constant state of improvement. I hope they can get a TV deal for him over here.

[Autobarn]

I just don't want froch to go down as a "bridesmaid", being remembered for getting silver at super 6, or being in calzaghe's shadow. I want him to take a step back, and pick the right fight that will lift his resume to another level, so that being outboxed by ward is not the fight he is judged by. I think golovkin and Stevenson will beat macklin and bellew and would love to see froch beat the middleweight beast or the light heavy king - on his own terms.

[WildWaylon]

I have to be honest I never liked Froch for two reasons. I didnt like the things he said and I didnt like his style of fighting. I thought Froch would fail at the top level and I am now glad to say I was wrong. He has proved he is a great champ and belongs in World class. I have also listened to what he says these days and the arrogance he had has now turned into confidence in his abilities. It seems James Degale is the one now with all the arrogance. Having fought and beaten Kessler in their second matchup I think his target now has to be Andre Ward. Ali beat the fighters who beat him and if Froch can do the same I think Carl will deserve his place in history. I dont think Froch will ever overtake Robin Hood as the big name to be linked with Nottingham LOL but for many his name may well be equal to Brian Clough in years to come. It all depends on how he ends his boxing career.

[crusader]

Great topic…

Froch is there. He’s done it.

Haye gets a lot of abuse but he did great things at Cruiser and anything at heavy is a bonus. I’d say he’s a British great already…but I know some will disagree.
Burns…very, very close…perhaps hold the title for another 2 years…or win a unification fight as is being suggested.

Khan might have had some defeats but he’s also got some good wins. If he can fight all or some of Bradley, Alexander, Brook, Peterson, Gurerro and Berto…and win as many as he loses then he’d have to be in.

Great things like beating Fragomeni, Mormeck, and Enzo, and struggling with the first two?

Haye gets too much credit simply because he could've arguably been called an undisputed champion. Set the labels aside and nothing on his record suggests he's a great.

[expe]

I have to be honest I never liked Froch for two reasons. I didnt like the things he said and I didnt like his style of fighting. I thought Froch would fail at the top level and I am now glad to say I was wrong. He has proved he is a great champ and belongs in World class. I have also listened to what he says these days and the arrogance he had has now turned into confidence in his abilities. It seems James Degale is the one now with all the arrogance. Having fought and beaten Kessler in their second matchup I think his target now has to be Andre Ward. Ali beat the fighters who beat him and if Froch can do the same I think Carl will deserve his place in history. I dont think Froch will ever overtake Robin Hood as the big name to be linked with Nottingham LOL but for many his name may well be equal to Brian Clough in years to come. It all depends on how he ends his boxing career.

Always thought he was a wanker and still do.

[Autobarn]

HBO's given froch 4 names, ward, kessler, golovkin & chavez jr.

heard said ward'd probably be next spring.

id love to see golovkin if g-man beats macklin impressively or in exciting fashion, next week.

[dookus]

He'd make a shitload of money for battering Chavez jr into next week

[Parson Cross]

expe,
I'm sure Carl will be distraught at that news.
Get over yourself and as a boxing fan in the UK enjoy the fact we have an elite fighter.

[mickey1975]

expe,
I'm sure Carl will be distraught at that news.
Get over yourself and as a boxing fan in the UK enjoy the fact we have an elite fighter.

I think he's a twat, too. Always have done.

[loaded_gloves]

Froch is a British 'great' I suppose but will never be anything beyond that in world terms.

Khan and Burns forget it. Impossible.

[Autobarn]

Froch is a British 'great' I suppose but will never be anything beyond that in world terms.

Khan and Burns forget it. Impossible.

well, none of these fighters' careers are over. what big thing would they need to do, to get there? and are they capable of it?

everyone's been raving about broner yet it's not impossible that khan or brook could deal with him.

froch's performances vs bute and Abraham were perfect, elite level dominations which suggest he could indeed become one of Britain's greatest.

etc...

[expe]

expe,
I'm sure Carl will be distraught at that news.
Get over yourself and as a boxing fan in the UK enjoy the fact we have an elite fighter.

I'm not questioning his ability, just saying he comes across as an arrogant wanker.

[dookus]

expe,
I'm sure Carl will be distraught at that news.
Get over yourself and as a boxing fan in the UK enjoy the fact we have an elite fighter.

I'm not questioning his ability, just saying he comes across as an arrogant wanker.

This

[loaded_gloves]

Froch is a British 'great' I suppose but will never be anything beyond that in world terms.

Khan and Burns forget it. Impossible.

well, none of these fighters' careers are over. what big thing would they need to do, to get there? and are they capable of it?

everyone's been raving about broner yet it's not impossible that khan or brook could deal with him.

froch's performances vs bute and Abraham were perfect, elite level dominations which suggest he could indeed become one of Britain's greatest.

etc...

He lost widely to Andre Ward. How can you become a great when you lose so dismally? Abraham and Bute are hardly names that will echo down the ages. Bute was basically unknown on the top level and Froch embarrassed him. Abraham has no real body of work at smw, and had a long bum-of-the-month campaign at middle. I'm not criticising Froch, I'm glad he walked through them but it means little.

Khan is just faulty goods. He's never going to make it, even in this era of a million belts. Burns has no body of work, none whatsoever, I personally don't see anything special in him at all. He's certainly no Ken Buchanan, even though he (probably) has racked up more 'title' defences than him.

[Quixall]

Froch is a British 'great' I suppose but will never be anything beyond that in world terms.

Khan and Burns forget it. Impossible.

well, none of these fighters' careers are over. what big thing would they need to do, to get there? and are they capable of it?

everyone's been raving about broner yet it's not impossible that khan or brook could deal with him.

froch's performances vs bute and Abraham were perfect, elite level dominations which suggest he could indeed become one of Britain's greatest.

etc...

I think Broner would be a nightmare for Khan and Brook hasn't even proved he is a world level fighter yet imo.

[Autobarn]

he didn't lose that widely. froch got going later on in the fight vs ward. it wasn't a great performance. froch got outboxed, his strategy wasn't very good. but so too did Hopkins get outboxed by roy jones (froch and ward, in their physical contrasts, i.e. gangly vs compact & muscular, compare well to Hopkins and jones. wouldn't be surprised if froch remains at 168 all his career, whereas ward will end up a strong 175....). so did alexis arguello by Ernesto marcel. so did azumah nelson by pernell whitaker. so did chavez sr by Frankie randall. qawi by spinks. holyfield by moorer. donaire by rigondeaux.

froch has a very impressive body of work. Abraham and bute were middle and super middle IBF champs, and froch dominated them mentally and physically. these were special performances, to beat world class fighters so completely. just as lewis was credited for owning tua or blasting out golota/grant, so too should froch be credited for winning so emphatically in world class.

pascal and Kessler 2 were bruising encounters in which froch showed impressive fitness and impressive boxing skills (forcing pascal back with the jab, late; picking Kessler off early; holding ring centre vs both and always having the last word in exchanges to make a good impression on the judges). the 12th round beating of taylor, squatting down with his head between his knees, is one of the most brutal finishes in recent memory. he can get in exchanges, win fights in honest fashion, impose himself for thrilling wins over long, hard distances, throwing hard shots from rd 1-12. this is a guy who digs deep in the deep end - and wins at a high level of intensity. who comes back from disappointments a better fighter, always ready for that next big surge, eager to make a statement. this is a special fighter. who was ready to rematch bute, if he wanted it, and then wanted rematches with both guys who beat him. that willingness and intensity make him a figher never to write off. now with a title in England, calling most of the shots, and settled down after going stale in super 6, he's to be taken very seriously.

froch's list of opponents is so impressively tough. pascal, taylor, dirrell, Kessler 1, Abraham, Johnson, ward, bute, Kessler 2. names like groves, degale, chavez jr, golovkin, Kessler 3, ward, perhaps Stevenson...all can lift his career. I think what makes froch freakish, is being able to make that weight, year after year. the fitness, the Spartan in him, , the discipline when other fighters are putting on a stone or 2 having a good time

[lillywhite14]

All depends on what we are calling a British great doesn't it really?

If Bruno makes it then of course Haye does. Could argue Khan does too and of course, Froch strolls in.

They all have the potential to become British greats, if they aren't already ( Haye and Froch are in my book )

[Autobarn]

re burns. winning a world title vs the division's hardest puncher, in a superb, intense battle...winning 8 world title fights, 5 vs world class competition - "no body of work at all" - really?

[expe]

re burns. winning a world title vs the division's hardest puncher, in a superb, intense battle...winning 8 world title fights, 5 vs world class competition - "no body of work at all" - really?

Yep, as for the comment about him being nothing special, that is what makes him so good, he does everything well, good jab, decent power, solid chin, punches well to the body and is always in great shape. There's no glaring weaknesses in what he does.

[Autobarn]

re burns. winning a world title vs the division's hardest puncher, in a superb, intense battle...winning 8 world title fights, 5 vs world class competition - "no body of work at all" - really?

Yep, as for the comment about him being nothing special, that is what makes him so good, he does everything well, good jab, decent power, solid chin, punches well to the body and is always in great shape. There's no glaring weaknesses in what he does.

it shocks me how eager ppl are to take burns for granted. he was getting manhandled by arthur and dropped by johanesson...now he's seeing off dangerous mandos, thrashing the top british opponent, taking titles, defending vs former champs...

[banjo]

Always thought he was a wanker and still do.

Hmm...I don't mind him as a personality, his constant "I'm a warrior" shtick is a bit irritating but other than that he's ok, far more likable than most top boxers these days.