Lewis vs Bowe : Why didn't this fight happen ?

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Grant wasn't seen as a 'piss poor opponent' at the time, retrospect is great isn't it?

Well done, you missed the point.

Botha wasn't brilliant, but he had lost to just Tyson and Moorer in something like 45 fights - not great but not Jesse Ferguson either.

Well done, you missed the point again. And btw- highly subjective re- Ferguson/Botha. I thought you hated conjecture.

As the Tua fight turned out (a fight that made Bonecrusher Smith vs Tyson look like Hagler vs Hearns) it was an easy, routine defence for Lewis, it wouldn't have been any different if the fight had took place two years earlier.

Again, you miss the point entirely.

Now - please return to the remedial class, there's no reason for you to be slowing down the rest of the class.

Your point - is bullshit - your opinion - is all that it is, to pull people up for not agreeing with your opinion is bad manners.

You have no real idea of why Bowe ducked Lewis.

But he threw his belt into the bin than meet him.

That is all you need to know - apart from Lewis ducked no-one.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Isn't Google wonderful. Just type in the word conjecture and it gives you it's meaning in a short no nonesense fashion.

All people post as if something is fact.

No they don't. You can debate opinion but to pull people up because they don't treat your opinion as fact is bad mannered nonsense.

To say Loaded know nothing at all is really childlike.

But true.

Why do you say you know more about boxing ? How do you know that ? How do you prove that ? Can you quantify that claim ?

The left arsecheek of an hedgehog knows more about boxing that the whopper.

[Quixall]

That makes things a lot clearer

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Yes, a 23 year old grown man Lennox Lewis, in his second Olympics, got the better of an 18 year old boy Riddick Bowe in his first Olympics.

Are you sure?

Bowe was 18 in 1988?

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Yes, a 23 year old grown man Lennox Lewis, in his second Olympics, got the better of an 18 year old boy Riddick Bowe in his first Olympics.

Very much like another powerful grown man, called Jorge Luis Gonzalez, beat the boy Bowe up. Was he a better boxer than Bowe too?

Were Al Evans and Craig Payne better boxers than that boy Tyson they beat? How about Henry Tillman?

Was Kent Green better than Muhammad Ali? Duane Bobick better than Larry Holmes?

I know, I know - I have one as well.

How about 33 year old Trevor Berbick with 4 world title fights and over 40 contests beating up 20 year Mike Tyson?

or - that other example of 17 year old Wilfred Benitez getting the crap knocked out of him by Antonio Cerevantes.

And of course 21 year old Floyd Patterson who got a hiding off Archie Moore - who was double his age, had real man strength and ringcraft and he had more knockouts than any heavyweight that ever fought..

Hmmm...

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

I've already posted the facts.

Short of scanning extensive magazines, or typing up the stories myself, there's not much else I can do.

If certain Brits want to ignore the truth over some tragic national pride or jingoistic obsession with Lewis then so be it, it's their life.

You haven't posted facts, you have posted opinion that skews to your perception of what
happened - big effing difference you complete whopper!

Mr Dooley tore you a new one - you are best off leaving this thread now with as much
dignity as you have left.

No, you've posted opinion. And name-calling. And even emoticons because you can't express yourself.

And then you bring up "dignity".

I have no idea who this 'Mr Dooley' you speak of is, the one who apparently 'tore me a new one', but I assume he is another of your schoolyard-brain-trapped-in-a-middle-aged-body ilk.

This thread is a bit like trying to speak sense to a pisshead in a kebab shop. I'll leave you pub geniuses to it.

Wow, someone doesn't like it when other people have an opinion and back it up with little bits of info from the time. Grow up, mate. Or are you, like Riddick Bowe one of those weird Peter Pan people, their age goes up and down, back and forth, from 17 in 1984 to 18 a few years later. Was the teenage Bowe like one of those weird middle-aged women who remain the same age year in and year out. Or can't you calculate ages? It isn't rocket science, you are posting on a boxing database. It's great to pop up with: "I love heavies, me, and I was alive at the time." A museum guard spends all of his time looking at the exhibits, it doesn't make him an art historian. As I said, the comparison between Lewis/Bowe/Tua was facile, the stuff about Lewis ducking out in 1996 was inaccurate and there were other mistakes, but people complain about the length of my posts so I'll let you crack on with it. All the information is out there, you just can't be arsed looking for it.

That should be the end of it, it is now like kicking a dead dog.

Loaded Gloves - if you have any dignity left, you would just slink off and hide for a week.

I would if I had been destroyed on so many points on just one thread.

Now you must have known how the Iraqi army felt back in 1991.

[keithmoonhangover]

Bowe did not duck Lennox Lewis. He made a business decision.

He made a business decision that involved him not fighting Lewis. In what way is that not ducking?

You gonna answer this one or ignore my comment, like you did the last time we discussed this topic?

[palooka]

Yes, a 23 year old grown man Lennox Lewis, in his second Olympics, got the better of an 18 year old boy Riddick Bowe in his first Olympics.

Are you sure?

Bowe was 18 in 1988?

He must have sent his older brother in when he saw Lewis.

[keithmoonhangover]

Yes, a 23 year old grown man Lennox Lewis, in his second Olympics, got the better of an 18 year old boy Riddick Bowe in his first Olympics.

Are you sure?

Bowe was 18 in 1988?

He must have sent his older brother in when he saw Lewis.

The old brother/brother switcharooney works everytime - or doesn't in this case.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Yes, a 23 year old grown man Lennox Lewis, in his second Olympics, got the better of an 18 year old boy Riddick Bowe in his first Olympics.

Are you sure?

Bowe was 18 in 1988?

He must have sent his older brother in when he saw Lewis.

I bet Loaded Gloves wished he had an older brother he could send in to this thread!

[Quixall]

Fat git, i have read this thread and it's quite funny seeing people battle it out over slurs and insults lol. However, don't you sometimes think you are just shadow boxing with yourself here ? I mean, it's just an internet forum, so i doubt people take it that seriously, or do they ? If someone says that your knowledge of a topic is somewhat distorted or lacks factual knowledge, that is one thing, but it's hardly going to put the person on the end of the criticism into a spin, is it ? Also, we don't know each other on this forum, so i have never quite understood why people bother to insult other people that they know nothing of in real life lol. If someone came up to you on the street and said " was Tyson the best heavyweight " and you repied " Well, i don't think he was actually " and the guy said " You know nothing, your a jerk ", wou;d you take it to heart and then have to go to a cafe, have a drink and analyse your personlity on the back of what someone you don't know said of your opinion of Mike Tyson !!!! I doubt it somehow and if you ddid need that drink, then you have serious problems 8)

[palooka]

Fat git, i have read this thread and it's quite funny seeing people battle it out over slurs and insults lol. However, don't you sometimes think you are just shadow boxing with yourself here ? I mean, it's just an internet forum, so i doubt people take it that seriously, or do they ? If someone says that your knowledge of a topic is somewhat distorted or lacks factual knowledge, that is one thing, but it's hardly going to put the person on the end of the criticism into a spin, is it ? Also, we don't know each other on this forum, so i have never quite understood why people bother to insult other people that they know nothing of in real life lol. If someone came up to you on the street and said " was Tyson the best heavyweight " and you repied " Well, i don't think he was actually " and the guy said " You know nothing, your a jerk ", wou;d you take it to heart and then have to go to a cafe, have a drink and analyse your personlity on the back of what someone you don't know said of your opinion of Mike Tyson !!!! I doubt it somehow and if you ddid need that drink, then you have serious problems 8)

I've got serious problems never mind Carlos

[Quixall]

Fat git, i have read this thread and it's quite funny seeing people battle it out over slurs and insults lol. However, don't you sometimes think you are just shadow boxing with yourself here ? I mean, it's just an internet forum, so i doubt people take it that seriously, or do they ? If someone says that your knowledge of a topic is somewhat distorted or lacks factual knowledge, that is one thing, but it's hardly going to put the person on the end of the criticism into a spin, is it ? Also, we don't know each other on this forum, so i have never quite understood why people bother to insult other people that they know nothing of in real life lol. If someone came up to you on the street and said " was Tyson the best heavyweight " and you repied " Well, i don't think he was actually " and the guy said " You know nothing, your a jerk ", wou;d you take it to heart and then have to go to a cafe, have a drink and analyse your personlity on the back of what someone you don't know said of your opinion of Mike Tyson !!!! I doubt it somehow and if you ddid need that drink, then you have serious problems 8)

I've got serious problems never mind Carlos

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Fat git, i have read this thread and it's quite funny seeing people battle it out over slurs and insults lol. However, don't you sometimes think you are just shadow boxing with yourself here ? I mean, it's just an internet forum, so i doubt people take it that seriously, or do they ? If someone says that your knowledge of a topic is somewhat distorted or lacks factual knowledge, that is one thing, but it's hardly going to put the person on the end of the criticism into a spin, is it ? Also, we don't know each other on this forum, so i have never quite understood why people bother to insult other people that they know nothing of in real life lol. If someone came up to you on the street and said " was Tyson the best heavyweight " and you repied " Well, i don't think he was actually " and the guy said " You know nothing, your a jerk ", wou;d you take it to heart and then have to go to a cafe, have a drink and analyse your personlity on the back of what someone you don't know said of your opinion of Mike Tyson !!!! I doubt it somehow and if you ddid need that drink, then you have serious problems 8)

Hold your bloody horses -

All I did was write a sentence on what I know about the subject - and this was his reply.

Fat Git, that's not at all what happened. Please read my first post in this thread.

Why people insist on clinging to a viewpoint which they have not bothered to research is beyond me, it must be to dowith the mental calibre.

First of all, his word is not law, his opinion is not fact, I do not have to review his post to have a reasonably accurate opinion based on the facts of what I know.

Secondly, if someone wants to resort to questioning my 'mental calibre' then I am not going to be nice in return.

It is not just me who has a problem with his posting style - helps that he is wrong on more than one point though.



So you need to make another post asking him to play nice and the other boys in the playground will be nice in return.

[Final round]

So.. Why did Riddick Bowe duck Len the Englishman Lewis?
Is it because he was scared?

[palooka]

So.. Why did Riddick Bowe duck Len the Englishman Lewis?
Is it because he was scared?

Because he'd been beaten by him before and could earn big without boxing him, simple really.

[keithmoonhangover]

So.. Why did Riddick Bowe duck Len the Englishman Lewis?
Is it because he was scared?

Because he'd been beaten by him before and could earn big without boxing him, simple really.

Some people blame Rock Newman for that, but the buck stops with Bowe. It was his signature on the contract.

[Quixall]

Yeah, i agree in that he shouldn't have questioned your "mental calibre"

You were never going to react nicely to that, were you !!

I think people should just debate the question and if they disagree then just disagree. Don't get me wrong, i have flung sh't around before, who hasn't, but as time goes on i just think it's a waste of energy. It is true that some people read into posts things that aren't there and take a criticism of their anaylsis as a criticism of themselves as people. It's almost as if they can't seperate the two. I think we have had a few words DD But i can detect a humour in waht you say and maybe other's can't do that or are two insecure personally to discount what other people say. If you write on a forum, particularly about something as subjective as boxing, then you have to be prepared for the fact that some people, however deluded, may not always agree with you. Ps i hope you got that little joke there

[Final round]

A museum guard spends all of his time looking at the exhibits, it doesn't make him an art historian

I AM Ron Jeremy! You fornicator

[palooka]

So.. Why did Riddick Bowe duck Len the Englishman Lewis?
Is it because he was scared?

Because he'd been beaten by him before and could earn big without boxing him, simple really.

Some people blame Rock Newman for that, but the buck stops with Bowe. It was his signature on the contract.

But why pay top dollar for advice if you don't consider it/ take it? Newman did good for him.

[Final round]

So.. Why did Riddick Bowe duck Len the Englishman Lewis?
Is it because he was scared?

Because he'd been beaten by him before and could earn big without boxing him, simple really.

Some people blame Rock Newman for that, but the buck stops with Bowe. It was his signature on the contract.

Thanks Palooka and Keith I just wanted to get down to brass tacks

[keithmoonhangover]

But why pay top dollar for advice if you don't consider it/ take it? Newman did good for him.

Good and bad, like every manager. No one makes the right decision every time.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Yeah, i agree in that he shouldn't have questioned your "mental calibre"

You were never going to react nicely to that, were you !!

I think people should just debate the question and if they disagree then just disagree. Don't get me wrong, i have flung sh't around before, who hasn't, but as time goes on i just think it's a waste of energy. It is true that some people read into posts things that aren't there and take a criticism of their anaylsis as a criticism of themselves as people. It's almost as if they can't seperate the two. I think we have had a few words DD But i can detect a humour in waht you say and maybe other's can't do that or are two insecure personally to discount what other people say. If you write on a forum, particularly about something as subjective as boxing, then you have to be prepared for the fact that some people, however deluded, may not always agree with you. Ps i hope you got that little joke there

I am sure we would all get on if we met, if you call me a wanker because you don't agree with me and I have called you similar then I don't take it personal - if you make a good point and you have in the past many times - I sit here and nod and say 'good point' sometimes, it might be so good that I will post something to that effect. In all honesty, I didn't read any of what Loaded Gloves wrote before I posted my one sentence on the subject. My thoughts on the subject could be completely wrong but I don't think so. I am a big fan of both boxers and it was boxings loss that Bowe vs Lewis
didn't happen, but to make shit up and then to take it to an emotional level '23 year old man beating an 18 year old boy' I am laughing typing it out. Just going off on a tizzy, ignoring the facts at his fingertips, as El Tel Dooley pointed out - he is posting on a boxing database forum! He needs to be careful what he is posting because he will get called out on his bullshit.

[Quixall]

I agree with all of that............

The one thing i have noticed in all my time of posting on boxing forums, particularly this one, is that you have to know your sh@t. You have to at least know something of what you are talking about and come at it with a fair amount of objectivity, because if you don't, your are liable to get taken to town. That is what happens, as you say, when someone begins to up the emotional aspects of a post and starts to swing wild verbal punches that can easily be countered by alert, intelligent and knowledgable people on the forum. I think that is a good thing, because it's how you learn more or get to refine your opinion. I learn't something with my Broner thread and from the views of people on you tube after the fight, mainly boxing trainers etc, but i have tweaked my opinions because of that thread and perhaps now see Broner is a good light still, but perhaps a more realistic one and not so blind, if that's the word to use, to his faults or weaknesses or areas of improvement.

[Finn]

The third is that he didn't give Vitali a re-match

I think that was forgivable, though. It was a shame for Klitschko, but Lewis was at the end of his career, had achieved all that he'd wanted to, and had scraped a win against a very dangerous opponent. Risking his health in a rematch would've only been for Klitschko's benefit, and Vitali came away from that fight with much praise.

If Lewis had gone around telling everyone he'd have smashed up Klitschko in a rematch, I'd agree with you. But as far as I'm aware, he quietly acknowledged the changing of the guard?

lewis had lost his desire and came in quite out of shape, vitali didnt face a prime lewis imo.