Off topic - Scotland's murderous heart

[E]

E

The surprising thing is Glasgow is a beautiful city. The architecture, museums, galleries are breathtaking.

The shopping is rated in the top ten in the world

The people ARE really warm and friendly.

However, after dark they seem to bark at the moon.

The city centre is bad at the weekends, but the housing schemes that perimeter the city are a breeding ground of hatred.

Unless you belong there and have lived there all your life they will smell you coming.

Glasgow is trying to rid itself of the " No Mean City " tag it has had for years but this recent trend is frightening.

Another thing that gets sickening especially to me is everytime you watch a TV drama the Scotsman is type cast as a drunken hardman.

Because of this a lot of them seem to think they have to live up to that image. aka Willie in the Simpsons.

Yeah Glasgow was name European city of culture a few years ago, right? You're right about Scotsman being typecast a certain way, but in some ways it could be argued that art imitates life etc.

Scots culture is quite macho, right?

Anyway I have been to Edinburgh a few times and the people are soooo friendly.... what is funny is that the rest of Scotland regards Edinburgh as a bit snobby and unfriendly, but compared to London it felt like the friendliest place in the world.

Scotland is beautiful, but I can't help feeling a bit disliked because I am English (almost certainly paranoia though!)

[Gordon]

No E its not paranoia.

There is still an element up here who will NEVER like the English. Its the same with the religious undercurrent. The hatred is centuries old and people forget what the fuss was all about originally its just the done thing to hate either the English or the opposite factor in Ireland or both.

Night time in Glasgow can be daunting for the visitor. Especially if you are aware of the violent reputation, this awareness heightens the apprehension. You may never experience any of it first hand but it is there lurking .

As for Edinburgh & Glasgow being beautiful cities, Irvine Welsh states in this article how both local authorities have developed the respective city centres to be appealing to the more prominent person and visitors. New apartment blocks are being built at extortionate prices not to allow the stereotypical local to have to move outwith the city, therefore causing trouble outwith the city centre itself.

However, all the night life happens within a small area of the city centre. Night clubs, theatres, cinemas etc are all situated within an area known as NED Central.

[dondada]

As I think I said elsewhere, my best pal is moving near Glasgow to become a youth worker. He met a lass up there, who is also a social worker. She has just moved from a council estate having lived there for years. Although English, she has lived in Scotland so long she's done a bit of a Trevor Steven and got a Scots brogue to her speech.

She had to live with her curtains closed. When open, NEDs would peer in, sporadically calling her and her young son 'English pudenda' whenever they felt like it. She used to have to empty the bins at high speed as she would get verballed everytime she stepped out.

Of course, when she left for work, none of the benefit claiming shithouses were about to give her unwarranted grief.

In Sheffield the coppers have started to move gangs of charvers on...they took the names of seven teenagers who wouldn't cooperate. They'd soon fornicating cooperate if their arms were put up their backs, thrown in a van and put in a cell for a couple of days. But that would be an infringement of the Human Rights Act, wouldn't it?

What about the rights of the local community?

Sorry...seem to have gone into one...

[Old bones Ian]

The gang culture has always been going on, when i was younger it was skins, you had punks before that, mods and rockers in the sixties.

Unfortunatly for todays youth there is the Chav, possibly the worst dressed gang culture ever.

I work with alot of young people, and have to interview quite alot of "Chavs", most are fine when away from their mates, i don't get mouthed off to.
I've lived in london, Stratford and Forest gate, i now live back home on the Isle of Wight, it makes me laugh down here with the youths , they try to be hard, but i think they wouldn't last 2 mins in the big wide world.

Thats not to say we don't have problems down here, recently we've had gangs fighting with sticks and a couple of blades, the reason is because they live in different towns.
Not exactly worth losing your life over is it!!

[Barryboy]

That must be one special lady to move up here for
I'm 26, have lived in Glasgow all my life & can't walk down the street without some teenage arsehole trying to stare me down(I've been to places in England & abroad and never experienced the same shit)

Gordon has been summing it up perfectly, the mentality of some folk here is just crazy "I stared at him and he looked away!" does that give them a warm fuzzy feeling inside or what add the fact that it's not just one or two neds you're dealing with but groups of 10 + probably pissed on the Buckfast then your looking at trouble.

As for solutions to the problem of the teen-ned-blade culture, I'm sorry but it's beyond me, there's a story in today's Daily Record about two 17yr old lads, one is being jailed for at least 11 years after stabbing his best mate after a 'dare' The court heard Dickson told Ryan who was lying on a bed "If you are not up in the next five seconds, I am going to stab you" Ryan stood up & said "Go for it" Dickson then stabbed him through the heart, As Ryan lay dying Dickson refused to call an ambulance & claimed that his friend shouldn't have "Taken the piss"

The last comment sums up the thinking & mentality of these people beautifully.

I'm coming down to London for the Harrison/Williams fight so we'll see how that goes, a couple of you have mentioned Scots giving you a few strange looks when they hear your accent so I wonder what the Londoners will be thinking when they hear me

[dondada]

As for solutions to the problem of the teen-ned-blade culture, I'm sorry but it's beyond me, there's a story in today's Daily Record about two 17yr old lads, one is being jailed for at least 11 years after stabbing his best mate after a 'dare' The court heard Dickson told Ryan who was lying on a bed "If you are not up in the next five seconds, I am going to stab you" Ryan stood up & said "Go for it" Dickson then stabbed him through the heart, As Ryan lay dying Dickson refused to call an ambulance & claimed that his friend shouldn't have "Taken the piss"

The last comment sums up the thinking & mentality of these people beautifully.

Good God almighty. What the fornicate is going on in this world!? :(

[Gordon]

Thanks Barry was about to add that one in today.

Unfortunate thing is most of our teenagers ARE like the pair mentioned.

Barry I was down in London recently and thought i was on another planet. I was brought up to believe how warm the Glaswegian is, but as mentioned your afraid to make eye contact with one in fear of having your face re-arranged with some sharp instrument. Whereas the Londoners couldn't have been any nicer.

Going down to Swindon next week, My friends down there take me out on the town, and you can, without the fear of getting knifed. OK you get the odd idiot fancies his chances but its easy to de-fuse them with a few whispers in the ear.

Back home you go for a pint and your constantly looking over your shoulder.

No short sharp answer. Back in my day the local constabulary had the "Untouchables" A squad of about 6 coppers who travelled in the back of a Transit van cruising the rough areas and literaly beating the shit out of the gangs.

Of course that doesn't happen anymore, but it quietened down the culture after the 70's for a whiile.

[MightyWarrior]

Shame old Ryan didn't have the chance to finish off his "mate" before he expired, then they could've gone on the shortlist Darwin Awards list for 2005 ( saluting the improvement of the human genome - honoring those who remove themselves from it in really stupid ways )

http://www.darwinawards.com

With lunatics like that on the loose, it's no wonder Scott Harrison finds himself in a few scrapes now and again

[jamesmcdonnell]

The gang culture has always been going on, when i was younger it was skins, you had punks before that, mods and rockers in the sixties.

Unfortunatly for todays youth there is the Chav, possibly the worst dressed gang culture ever.

I work with alot of young people, and have to interview quite alot of "Chavs", most are fine when away from their mates, i don't get mouthed off to.
I've lived in london, Stratford and Forest gate, i now live back home on the Isle of Wight, it makes me laugh down here with the youths , they try to be hard, but i think they wouldn't last 2 mins in the big wide world.

Thats not to say we don't have problems down here, recently we've had gangs fighting with sticks and a couple of blades, the reason is because they live in different towns.
Not exactly worth losing your life over is it!!

Closest I've come to grief recently was at a party by the canal in Ladbroke grove last summer, when about 10 16-18 year olds surrounded me and a guy I'd met at the do. They proceeded to inform us they were 'strapped' and they would shoot us both.....

fornicating frightening.

[mickeybeard]

Some of the missus' family are from Coatbridge (nod to MT Gillick), which is alledgedly known as Beirut amaongst local ambulance crews. We've stayed up there twice, got no grief in the streets, got no grief in the pubs, got no grief in central Glasgow (although I admit it can go a bit earily quiet when you order a beer in an English accent), in fact got no grief of any kind, anywhere. So it's not really like you're definately going to get stabbed, assaulted or even looked at hard if you go up there, guys.

Generally the people we met were very friendly, seemed to be amazed that we'd travel that far to see family (for a wedding both times) and Glasgow is a beautiful city. The only times I was ever scared was when I got into a cab - they all seem to be determined to arrive at their destination before they actually set off. Not saying that grief doesn't happen, of course it does, but I wouldn't let it put you off visiting.

Here in Plymouth, St Peter's ward is one of the worst in the country for crime, poverty and drug abuse. The thing is, 90% of the problems happen on 5% of the streets to 10% of the people. If you avoid those people and areas you have no problems. I wonder how much of that is the case up north?

[Gordon]

Coatbridge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Ask the Monks at Buckfast Abbey where most of their sales go. For the last 40yrs the answer would have been Coatbridge. Now every kid in the West of Scotland drinks the rather potent wine.


Beirut is the area around Celtic Park. This place is so run down it looks like a war zone.

I wish it was just a small percentage of people from a small area. However its not the case.

Like Mickeybeard states though, the City of Glasgow is a really nice city. So if you do plan a visit don't let me put you off.

Remember I live here this is my home town and I won't change that for anything ( well maybe some nice island somewhere with dancing girls and .............dream on)

The City fathers both here & in Edinburgh are trying to sell the respective cities on the tourist market.

We do have nice parks, we do have nice museums, galleries etc.

The night life is very vibrant. We have a big science centre on the Clydeside complete with IMAX theatre.

Only take the time to sit on a bench in Sauchiehall Street or Princes Street and observe the young. They don't live in the Centre of town only rich professionals can afford that but they do arrive in droves for the shopping. They come for their daily shoplifting or to beg on the streets.

Whilst the rest of us go shopping in the Italian centre or Princess Square or some of the upmarket design stores or Buchanan Galleries

The little rat bags are there thieving, both from the shops and you.

If you feel the hand dip your pocket stop him and see what happens.

I was recently down in one of the more famous landmarks of Glasgow with some American relations as they were preparing for a wedding.

My young niece suggested we go into the nearby pub. I did insist she pay the barman with the correct change because if she hung around waiting for change one of the low lifes would have her robbed blind.

Staring at me in disbelief, just as this young bag of rags came over and begged for spare change.

Not a poverty stricken homeless child that he would have you believe, just another crackhead looking for a fix.

No they have tarted the city up to look pleasing to the outsider and yes during the daytime she is a beautiful city.

But take a walk at night the city comes alive with a different breed of animal.

Stay away from the beautiful parks and ancient graveyards, stay away from the Barrowlands (Barras) market place or that area in general after dark.

THe famous Glasgow Green, by day a wonderful stroll in the park taking in the Peoples Palace and botanic gardens By night a haven for Prostitutes and junkies.

The Anderston area made famous by Billy Connelly in his stories from the 70,s The hotel region you will find the Hilton, Marriott, Radisson to name but a few.

Why are they in the red light area.


Yes That dear Green Place as it is known

Glasgow My home town.

[tolstoy]

I've also done some door work in Glasgow and didn't enjoy a single minute of it. Perhaps I was a tad paranoid but if it saves your life then fornicate it, it'll do for me.

A couple of other bits of information to add here:

In Scotland, the peak age for being convicted of murder is 18 years old.

I live in a medium sized town in East Renfrewshire yet within the last five years, and within a 400 yard radius of my house, there have been no fewer than five murders, all of which were stabbings.

Very disturbing indeed.

[Gordon]

Just after my last posting on Coatbridge I went out to buy a local paper and guess what the front page headline was.

48yr old women murdered in Asda Car park in Coatbridge.

An argument over a car park space and she got stabbed. The week before a 68yr old woman was stabbed in Tesco for skipping the queue.

As you can see you don't have to belong to a street gang or be out on a night out. People are getting killed over stupid arguments like car parks or who was in front of who in a supermarket check out.

My son works behind the bar in a rather notorious pub about 20 miles out side Glasgow. Now I go along and pick him up from work at 1.30 am.

Now normally I just park outside and watch them roll out before the staff appear.

But after this thread got started I've suddenly been made aware of something I have taken for granted for so long.

Suddenly here I am for the first time in my life feeling intimidated at a gang of drunk youths kicking off yards from my car.

Even in the presence of 4 Police cars they are still swapping blows, in fact 1 young guy took a swipe at one of the constables.

It is not just Glasgow & Edinburgh. These are the two major cities and they get all the publicity. Its the smaller towns & villages outside where most of the non reported serious attacks are happening.

I would be interested in where the figures for these statistics come from.

[Loftgroov]

Never been to Scotland, and never intend to. Most of the urban areas are reportedly utter sh*tholes anyway.

[tolstoy]

Never been to Scotland, and never intend to. Most of the urban areas are reportedly utter sh*tholes anyway.

You're missing out on a lot mate. Glencoe, for example.

[Loftgroov]

Oh I don't doubt there are some nice places....but largely it's supposed to be a bit grim and indeed intimidating if you're English. As I say I've never been there, but the stories and so on I heard from mates is that I shouldn't look to.

I used to live in Southampton until recently, and it's incredible how rough that has got in a relatively short space of time, say 5-10 years. Portsmouth always used to be the rough town of the Solent area, and still is, but Southampton is just as bad now.

Chavs in the main, robbing and mugging.

Millbrook, Shirley Warren, Lordswood, Weston and so on are just full of benefit scum causing trouble and total no-go (for the Police too in Millbrook's case) in the evenings.

Shirley Warren was on ‘Street Crime UK’ on Bravo not long ago. Some kids stole a caravan, took it to the top of a residential road, set it on fire, and then pushed it down the road!! When the parents came out they just started laughing and thought it was funny as hell as the firemen were putting it out (whilst abusing the firemen of course for “ruining the fun”)

The should reopen Auschwitz and Treblinka, and just ship these people off in my opinion.

I work with local bus operators through the course of my job, and apparently they frequently get bricks launched at their windscreens as they go by. Furthermore if a bus breaks down in such areas they have to get it out within 10 mins, as previously local youths have come along and petrol bombed the vehicle. Unbelievable. Southampton used to be a really nice city about 10 years ago. Now every other person's accent seems to be either Chav or eastern European.

So yes... while Scotland sounds rough, England is following suit quite well it seems. Time to emigrate!

[Loftgroov]

I thought the article was well written, but largely drivel actually.

Having lived in Wales for four years also, it was exactly the kind of thing you heard there. The underlying theme is that all Wales’ problems are caused by England, Blair, and “Englishness”. Welsh is essentially saying the same thing about Scotland. Large numbers of working-class Scots feel the need to go around slaying one another because the social fabric of Britain is all geared around serving the needs of the English, and the Scots are wholly “disadvantaged” as a result.

Bollocks.

It’s just an excuse. If you’re bored, go and play football on the green, read a book, do some voluntary work, watch TV, have a wank…whatever… there is no excuse for that kind of culture having developed because Scotland has historically lacked inward investment. Scotland has it’s own Parliament now as Welsh mentions, so they are self-governing nation. England needn't come into the argument, or indeed Welsh's article.

But it’s always easier to blame the big country next door for all your own failings. Wales & Scotland have always, and probably will always, do this.

[dondada]

[quote="Loftgroov"]I thought the article was well written, but largely drivel actually.quote]

You might disagree with some of it. "Largely" drivel it was not.

[Gordon]

Loftgroov

As Ian states you may disagree with what Irvine Welsh has written but drivel it certainly isn't.

My posts in here are of my own personal experiences in and around Glasgow.

Drive outwith, and your on a different planet. Loch Lomond is a 20 minute drive along the A82 from Glasgow. In fact take the A82 Great Western Road from Glasgow and keep going.

Up through Loch Lomond to Crainlarich, continue on through Rannoch Moor to Glencoe, Ballachulish and Fort William. Sit at the bottom of Ben Nevis and then drive on up through the Great Glen to Inverness.

This is one of the most scenic & beautiful drives in the UK. No NEDS no CHAVS just beautiful mountains and lochs right through the heartland of Scotland.

Driving through here is light years away from the city, you forget the ratio of murders, you forget the violence. People up here sleep with their windows open and their doors unlocked. The only noise you hear after dark is the deer barking.

Yes Scotland is a beautiful country just avoid the city after dark.

Not about to get into the politics of the UK here, but yes Scotland has its own "Parliament" whatever that means, We are still governed by Westminster, and the Edinburgh parliament only does what the puppet master in London allows them to.

Yes there is an inbred hatred up here, not helped by Thatcherism, but then again that exists everywhere North of the M25.

Loftgroov, you have never been to Scotland and thats a shame. Try coming North the next time you book your holidays you will be surprised.

Do not go on hearsay from your mates, there are places in Scotland where we don't care what your accent is, or your colour or religion or whatever. We are a small nation that opens its doors to the world.

Unfortunately there is an element of scum in the lowland cities that give the entire nation a bad name.