the best amateur boxers of all time-light flyweights

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 27 Oct 2005, 06:20

I am trying to compile an all time list in each weight category,all opinions and constructive advice welcome.Starting with the 48kg class 1.Jorge H ernandez(cub) 2 Daniel Petrov(bul) 3 Eric Griffin(usa) 4. Stephen Muchoki (ken) 5.Yan Barthelemi (cub) 6.Ivailo Hristov(bul) 7.Maikro Romero (cub) 8.Gyorgy Gedo (hun) 9.Nshan Munchian (arm) 10.Rogelio Marcia (cub) 11.Brian Viloria (usa) 12.Sergey Kasakov (rus) 13.Francisco Rodriguez (Ven) 14.Paul Gonzalez (usa) 15.Brahim Asloum (fra) 16.Shamil Sabirov (rus) 17.Manuel Montilla (cub) 18.Kim Kwang Sun (kor) 19.Ly Byong uk (prk) 20.Zou Chiming (Chn)-----just missed cut Yorman Rodriguez,Rafael Sainz,Juan Torres (all cub) and Richie Sandoval(usa)-Flyweights soon

Ulysses · Post by **Ulysses** » 28 Oct 2005, 16:41

No Steve Martin? no Scottt McDonald?

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 30 Oct 2005, 16:59

GREAT list you got. I’d like a few changes though.
My top ten:

1. Maikro Romero
He beat Daniel Petrov (No 2) both times they met. He was outstanding internationally 1996-1999. He was unlucky to lose to Brian Viloria at the 1999 Worlds in USA (he had clearly beat a young Viloria a year before). He was extremely unlucky to lose to Brahim Asloum at the Sydney Olympics, not saying it was a robbery but Romero was by far the better boxer even if he had difficulty to score. He beat Rogelio Marcelo clearly all times they met even though Marcelo was chosen ahead of him for a long time.

2. Jorge Hernández
3. Daniel Petrov
4. Eric Griffin
Had he won the 1992 Olympics he’d be No1 or 2.

5. Ivailo Marinov/Hristov
6. Yan Bartelemí
Will probably be ranked higher in a couple of years

7. György Gedó
8. Rogelio Marcelo
He beat Munchian at the 1989 Worlds in Soviet Union. He always beat Daniel Petrov.

9. Stephen Muchoki
10. Nshan Munchian

In the top 20 I’d include Juan Torres Odelín (CUB) and Michael Carbajal (USA) who had a great rivalry. Manuel Mantilla didn’t do much at this weight.

mike222 · Post by **mike222** » 01 Nov 2005, 11:28

Thanks for your post-Romero is difficult for me to rate as he moved between 48kg and 51kg but I take your points on board.He is not surprisingly also in my top ten flyweights.As regards Griffin,he should have won the Olympics but got a terrible decision winning on all five judges cards but because of the three button system lost to Lozano in a computer foul up.As amateurs was Carbajal better than Sandoval,I am not sure-did Michael get a terrible decision over a south korean in the Olympics that maybe has tarnished my view of his amateur prowess.Torres does deserve a top twenty position but it is hard to narrow it down.Will review rankings after the worlds.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 01 Nov 2005, 17:43

Carbajal won Olympic silver and Pan Am silver and had a better pro career than Sandoval. He lost in the Olympic final to Ivailo Hristov/Marinov on a really close decision.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 04 Nov 2005, 09:11

I agree fully with Maikro Romero, has nobody mentioned the fantastic Kaz fighter Bolat Dzumadilov....Romero beat him in the 96 Final by one point, I thought the KAZ did enough...he was outstanding and won some tornaments after this...also the German who Dzumadilov beat in tthe semi final in 96, his name I think was Zoltan Lunka....

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 04 Nov 2005, 09:13

Actually I believe they were in the 51kg class, Romero went down in weight but the other two did not as far as I know......

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 04 Nov 2005, 13:05

Jumadilov was a flyweight, one of the best of the last decades. I remember when he KO'ed mexican Martin Castillo with a vicious left hook to the body at the 1997 World championships.

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 05 Nov 2005, 03:35

I will top Ivailo Marinov (Ismail Mustafov) on the first or second spot. He is better then Daniel Petrov. I watched fight of both fighters and may tell you that Ivailo was a dancer, something like Rigondeaux style (watched his fights only on tapes:), while Daniel was non stop attacking machine. It was very difficult to connect with Marinov. Ivailo has a lot of difficulties with Bulgarian governement. He is etnic turc and his born name is Ismail Mustafov. The communists didn't let several times Ivailo to participate on the big competitions.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 05 Nov 2005, 15:36

Did they ever meet? I think they did, right?
At the European championships in 1991 Marinov was at 48 kg and Petrov at 51 (lost to Istvan Kovacs).
I think you are right that Marinov/Hristov probably was better but it's hard to argue against one gold and a silver at the Olympics.

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 06 Nov 2005, 06:34

They meet several times,
according to my stats the veridict is as follow: 3:2 (3:1 if we don't count WO)

1990
"Gee Bee" final
Ivailo Marinov - Daniel Petrov 5:0

National team championships
Daniel Petrov - Ivailo Marinov WO
National individual championships
Ivailo Marinov - Daniel Petrov 5:0

1992
"Strandja cup"
Ivailo Marinov - Daniel Petrov 19:15

German Bundesliga clash
Daniel Petrov - Ivailo Marinov on points

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 06 Nov 2005, 16:02

I'm reconsidering my ranking of Ivailo Marinov. I'm thinking he must be No 2 or 3.
Ogii, he was left out for some years in favour of Krasimir Tcholakov (Worlds 1986, Euro 1987, World Cup 1987), was he beaten by Tcholakov or was he sidestepped because of politics?
Did he fight Rogelio Marcelo, Juan Torres Odelin or Eric Griffin, and how did he do?
Was he in consideration for the Barcelona Olympics in 1992?

How dare you compare him with Rigondeaux who is one of the hardest punchers around? Marinov couldn't crack an egg with his best punch

. Like all bulgarians (Todorov, Alexander Hristov, Stilianov, Georgiev, etc) he just ran around piling up points while getting booed by the audience

.

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 08 Nov 2005, 04:03

my dear friend, Marinov was faster and better technician then Rigo. Even Sagara said once that he dreamed to have Marinov in his team (i will make for you the translation of Greatest coach in the world's words):
"Bulgaria has his real life schoolbook of boxing. His name is Ivailo Marinov. If there is a boxer, about who i am sorry that he isn't Cuban - it's Ivailo Marinov. I am so sorry that i can't train him.
Sagara said this during a common camp in Cuba before Los Angelis Games, which later were boykoted by Communistics countries. In fact the other problem for him was that he dropped ill of "yellow death" along with the other Graet Bulgarian Petar Lesov (who finished his career very young after this illness).
About Cholakov, the fact was that Bulgarian governement didn't let Ivailo to participate in those championships, cos they were scared that he may rest away from Bulgaria. The all time history match ups between Marinov and Cholakov are 17:0 for Ivailo!!!! in amateurs (with 2 WO) and 1:0 in professionals.
The problem with Barselona Olympics is that Ivailo was age limit of 32 (now it's 34). He made 32 few weeks before the Games, there was big chance that Ivailo may be let in Spain but Bulgarian boxing federation didn't ask for it AIBA in the right time. Ivailo has great chance to receive some sort of wild cart, cos it was about few days.
He never fought Rogelio Marcelo, Juan Torres Odelin or Eric Griffin.
One day if you come to Bulgaria and the sea city of Varna you may see him playing chess oan echecs in his restorant on the sands, where very often are held junior championships on the open air

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 08 Nov 2005, 04:05

locoxelbox wrote:Carbajal won Olympic silver and Pan Am silver and had a better pro career than Sandoval. He lost in the Olympic final to Ivailo Hristov/Marinov on a really close decision.

Watch once again the match. Bulgarian was touched (not punched) just several times in entire match. At the decission was 5:0

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 09 Nov 2005, 01:47

Of course Sagarra wanted to train Marinov. Maybe he could teach him how to punch

.
Seriously, Marinov is along with Todorov one of my favourite european fighters. But fact is, he didn't fight the three best opponents during his era, Griffin, Marcelo and Odelin. AND he lost to cubans Hipolito Ramos and Rafael Sainz

.
He would probably have been the all time No 1 in the division had he gotten the opportunity to fight in those tournaments.

Regarding the Carbajal fight; yes, he did win 5-0 but all five judges had 59:58. That means it WAS close.

Questions: Is pro boxing popular in Bulgaria? Do you think Bulgaria will have a pro world champ in the years coming? The amateur stars haven't fared well in the pro ring. Why do guys like Marinov, Tcholakov, Lessov, Todorov even turn pro? Glory, money or do they just want to get a taste of it?

ogii3 · Post by **ogii3** » 09 Nov 2005, 17:56

The pro shows in BUlgaria is very rare miracle. Two weeks ago was held first one since the summer of 2004. And it was mixed with 4 bouts of pride fighting. So pro boxing isn't so popular. Our best prospect was Tonctcho Tontchev, but now his career is almost over. He has hard injuri in his elbow, which cannot be healed. He used to fight for money. We have two hot prospects as Alexander Vladimirow (2-0-1), who you know from amateurs and Stanimir Amaro, who is fighting for Madrid's Tundra Barcelo (and he is something like 8-0). Also i think that Kubrat Pulev will be great professional and will reach at leat European champion level. I know that he and his manager are in close relations with Kohl.
We have very strong women. You know Daisy Lang, she is Bulgarian, known with the name Desi Kirova. And the other is current world bantam champ Galina Ivanova. (she fought in the gala two weeks ago in Sofia).
Speaking of our Bulgarian legends from the 80's and 90's, all of them are gypsi born (except Lesov, Daniel Petrov, Emi Tchuprenski, Svilen Russinov and Radoslav Suslekov) and prefere light way of living. To be professional boxing, you must give everything and to forget about family and friends for big period of live. I don't have the time to tell you the stories of all of them, but i think in our forum once i tell you about Serafim Todorov (my all time favorit), it's almost the same with Shtilianov. Boris Georgiev got married this summer and didn't enter in the hall for around 30-40 days, which isn't acceptable for a fighter of his level, who has several months until WCH. Krasi Tcholakov was very good fighter, who may have good professional career, cos he was attractive banger. But now he is boxing coach for some reach mafia guys and other TV stars. He trained them at the same hall, where Boris Georgiev used to train in his club. Alexander Hristov has a great chance to become highly payd boxing coach in Germany, but he prefered to return back in Bulgaria and to work for 100 Euros per month in his city of Plovdiv. Ivailo Marinov has a modest restaurant in Varna, but his appartment is very poor. And in fact Ivailo didn't have a lot of money. Tontcho TOntchev who has very good pro contract and was European champ, intercontinental WBC and WBA and also has a contract to be showed on ESPN.
Daniel Petrov is working as a police inspector in Sofia. He has great go ahead style and may go very far away in pro boxing, but decided to rest with his family and to work for almost noting.