Sorry Fellas, I can't rate Jake Lamotta As High As Most.

Italian 4 U · Post by **Italian 4 U** » 30 Jan 2003, 21:15

Without the movie Raging Bull, I think Lamotta would've been overlooked as an all-time great. He was definitely one of the toughest men ever to step into a boxing ring. Yet, he lacked power with the 30 knockouts in 106 fights being proof enough for me! Also, I think a lot of his credit comes from his 6 fights with Robinson and the fact he was the 1st to beat the legend. What's overlooked is the fact he LOST 5 times to him and as a full fledged middleweight versus a welter ( the greatest welter ever I'll admit).

Holyfield Headbutt · Post by **Holyfield Headbutt** » 30 Jan 2003, 21:39

U should be ashamed of urself. How can u call urself Italian 4 U (which is already not the most macho-Italian name) but not back LaMotta?!?!. F---in traitor. The man was a living wonder. Everything he did was a incredible, from fighting SRR 6 times and flooring that bastard twice but not going down himself, to KOing title challenger Laurent Dauthille who had a large lead on the cards with 13 seconds left in the fight, to beating the best middles in the world for 8 years before getting a denied shot, to being floored once in 106 bouts. And this was an era were lt.heavys beat heavys regularly so a short middleweight losing to a tall welterweight (not to mention a "greatest fighter of all time" welterweight) is certainly understandable. Marcel Cerdan, Tony Janiro, Fritzie Zivic, Jose Basora, Holman Williams and 78 other pros would tell u hes certainly well ranked. that sound u hear is me spitting in disgust.

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 30 Jan 2003, 22:27

HH....I apologize for anything negative I have ever said about you. That was one of the greatest dissenting posts I have ever read!

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 31 Jan 2003, 02:12

I disagree with you...strongly...on Jake LaMotta...but I can't let your being attacked on your "treason' to your ethnic background go without comment. Fine to have a hero with some nationality connection, but to use that as a judgement on the fighter's talent , for or against....is ignorant and bigoted. If anything, I think your assessment, as much as I disagree, shows that you are fair minded and your reasons are based on nothing but your opinion as to his record and ability, which is as it should be.

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 31 Jan 2003, 12:36

I hope Tomato Can was being sarcastic when he said "it was one of the greatest dissenting posts ever"
I agree with Jaclem..If you start calling people out "saying they are traitors to their race"

then maybe you should go find another forum on which to post your bigoted opinions...

There should be no place for that kind of garbage here....

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 31 Jan 2003, 13:30

To Jaclem and Zurdo...Perhaps I should have stuck an emoticon on my post like this one

I would never take all the bad things I say about anybody back and I helped write the forum rules which include no racism or profanity. He managed to get both into his post.

It was HH contention that I4u should rate LaMotta higher because they are both Italian is what made it "one of the greatest dissenting posts I have ever read". Instead of trying to be funny I should have called him on it.

Holyfield Headbutt · Post by **Holyfield Headbutt** » 31 Jan 2003, 16:22

Jeez Tomato Can makes all the jokes in the world and i cant mess around a little? Im not a racist or a supremasist, it think we should be objective and not biased which is why i gave plenty o' reasons why Giaccobe is well ranked. Yall r really a little too eager to flip out on me. I was just playing around with him, trying to make him question himself a little as a joke. So thank u for assuming the worst once again and ignoring everything i wrote about actual boxing (which is why were here) but reading into some parts and hearing what u wanta hear.
and Tomato can, there is no racism or profanity in this post. f---in isnt profanity, and at no point did i say LaMotta was great becuz he was Italian or anything of that nature

wsbuf · Post by **wsbuf** » 31 Jan 2003, 16:33

I don't believe LaMotta was full blooded Italian anyway.

Holyfield Headbutt · Post by **Holyfield Headbutt** » 31 Jan 2003, 16:51

yeah but his dad was an immigrant and he grew-up in the stereotypical Italian-American lifestyle of the time, and like all fighters of Italian heritage, (marciano, anutofermo, graziano, basilio, gatti), he was tough as nails. Great quality among us pizza-munching folk.

wsbuf · Post by **wsbuf** » 31 Jan 2003, 17:17

Yea H.H. I still claim him as one us.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 31 Jan 2003, 19:03

Lamotta defended his title against Tiberio Mitro, who at the time was the middleweight champion of Italy. Must have been some mixed feelings as to who to root for in that one.

Italian 4 U · Post by **Italian 4 U** » 31 Jan 2003, 22:58

Appreciate all the responses. Well......almost all of them. Nah, the HH reply really didn't bother me. I really do like Lamotta and perhaps he was the uncrowned champ of the late 40's. There is no question in my mind he was one of the very toughest men EVER to step into a boxing ring. AND I believe he was more technical than people give him credit for as well. Yet, I still think there were several above him in the middleweight career best category and I also believe there were several after him that would've bested him even in his prime. Hagler, Monzon, Greb, Emile Griffith (maybe), Zale (maybe), and Cerdan if his plane wouldn't have crashed. I really feel Hollywood plays a part in Lamotta being respected as he is as well but I respect him greatly as a fighter.