Rocky Marciano versus Modern Heavyweights via Punch Count

[Controversial]

But surely if the contemporary heavyweights are so terrible more light heavies should be cashing in and taking them out. They should be falling like dominoes no?

Again stretching things to suit your argument. Marciano was never a LHW. He would be a cruiserweight today so even then the mythical matchup against todays HWs would't happen unless he bulked up past the CW limit. Would I put my money on a 205lb Marciano beating David Price, hell yes.

[evrenb]

David price has lost twice...wladimir has lost vitali has lost (to a light heavyweight)
Rocky never lost ! :-)

[dempseyfire]

Surely David Price would have beaten Rocky. Too many physical advantages.

Haha, yes that's right, always put your money on the biggest guy, they always win don't they.

Find me a example then of where a 185 pounder beat a 250 pounder in an international level match by using brute strength in say the last 30 years ...brute strength of course counts out using Roy Jones as an example.

Chubby Chambers would be in fighting shape at 185 and he beat up 6'7, 250 lb Dimitrenko. Dimitrenko is definitely better than Price, who handled pressure from a 41 year old non-pressure fighter like some 18 year old AM whose only be sparring for 6 months.

Marciano was much more than brute strength. He had an odd, off-beat style that was very hard to time and he threw punches from awkward angles. The wide majority extremely hard. Add to that a great chin and incredible stamina. That's an extremely difficult style to fight. Marciano would've beaten tons of so-called 'super HWs.' He certainly would've kicked the asses of any HWs today not named Klitschko, and he'd be a very live underdog vs Wlad.

Size doesn't always equate to punching power. Danny Williams said an old overweight Tyson had better one-punch power than Vitali. I have no doubt Marciano did as well. Many guys weighing 180-200 lbs can punch more harder than a guy weighing 240+. From years sparring in many gyms, I've known 165 lbers who punched (much) harder than 200+ lbers. The hardest puncher I've ever known fought was an 178 lb AM. The guy was an clam fisherman and had scary strength for his size. He would literally send decent heavyweights home from the gym with broken ribs and noses wearing 16 ounce gloves. I as a 160 lber once did one round with him just throwing punches mid-speed at my body, and his light punch was harder than some big 230 lbers hard punches.

And polecat, you know s%^& about Archie Moore. To bring up his Ali fight when he was 50 years old is retarded. Moore beat many big, talented heavyweights. Bob Baker was a huge 6'2+, 220 lber with skills and speed and Moore beat him. Also the George Foreman sized Nino Valdez, KO'd big 6'3 Embrell Davidson in 1 round, sent 6'3 Olympian Lavorante away from the ring in a stretcher at 48 years old, beat the Holyfield of the 50s Clarence Henry. His HW resume was excellent. So best to just not go into areas which you know little about.

[HomicideHenry]

Michael Moorer was a very dominate light heavyweight who moved up to heavyweight, and one of the more impressive outings I seen him have was against 6'10" 280 pound Mike "The Giant" White, who had beaten Buster Douglas. Moorer knocked out White in ten rounds.

That is a good example, considering Moorer went on to win the heavyweight championship of the world, and he started off at a smaller weight than Marciano. Same goes with Chris Byrd and James Toney. I can give you multiple names of men over the passed 40-60 years who reguarly beaten heavyweights though they often fought at 175 pounds or less---- which is smaller than Marciano.

Evander Holyfield started off as a light heavyweight in the Olympics, and became a small cruiserweight and became the greatest of all time in that weight class, and then became a 4x heavyweight champion (I would say five-time cus he was robbed against Valuev). Michael Spinks was one of the best 175 pounders of all time and also became a heavyweight champion. All these men started off smaller than Marciano and did the bulk of their careers at smaller weights.

[Controversial]

Size doesn't always equate to punching power. Danny Williams said an old overweight Tyson had better one-punch power than Vitali. I have no doubt Marciano did as well. Many guys weighing 180-200 lbs can punch more harder than a guy weighing 240+. From years sparring in many gyms, I've known 165 lbers who punched (much) harder than 200+ lbers. The hardest puncher I've ever known fought was an 178 lb AM. The guy was an clam fisherman and had scary strength for his size. He would literally send decent heavyweights home from the gym with broken ribs and noses wearing 16 ounce gloves. I as a 160 lber once did one round with him just throwing punches mid-speed at my body, and his light punch was harder than some big 230 lbers hard punches.

Absolutely, Bowe always said the hardest puncher he fought was former cruiserweight Herbie Hide. Henry Cooper sent Ali flying and had him in all sorts of bother and Cooper was allegedly 12 stone 12lbs. Size and weight has zero affect on the ability to take a punch.

[polecateddy]

But surely if the contemporary heavyweights are so terrible more light heavies should be cashing in and taking them out. They should be falling like dominoes no?

Again stretching things to suit your argument. Marciano was never a LHW. He would be a cruiserweight today so even then the mythical matchup against todays HWs would't happen unless he bulked up past the CW limit. Would I put my money on a 205lb Marciano beating David Price, hell yes.

No the argument has to be as he was then, not using modern training. He's 5'10 and 185.

[HomicideHenry]

As promised some more punch stats from more modern day heavyweights of the passed thirty years. Lou Duva, who worked with Marciano, said that his protege Evander Holyfield was the most like Marciano in terms of work ethic in the gym. We are about to see if that is true via the punch stats. Mind you we have shown in the previous posts Marciano averaged 80-100 punches a round, and this only increased as the rounds went on.

Evander Holyfield, who started off as a light heavyweight in the amateurs winning a bronze medal in the 1984 Olympics, became the first man to unify the Cruiserweight titles before jumping to heavyweight. As a heavyweight Holyfield, who often fought at no more than 210 pounds, captured four heavyweight titles, and was robbed of a fifth against 7'0" 328 pound Nicolai Valuev.

Holyfield versus Dokes:

Round One: 81

Round Two: 71

Round Three: 59

Round Four: 56

Round Five: 58

Round Six: 55, then 3 punches after the bell for a total of 58

Round Seven: 50

Round Eight: 52

Round Nine: 57

Round Ten: 37 then the stoppage

Evander Holyfield versus Douglas:

Round One: 60

Round Two: 55

Round Three: 20, then the knockout

Evander Holyfield versus George Foreman:

Note: Foreman was 257 pounds to Holyfield's 208 pounds. Foreman was 24-0 (23) in his comeback that began March 9th, 1987. Incredibly Holyfield at this time was 24-0, and in his 8th heavyweight fight. COMPUBOX was in it's infancy at this time and was used in this fight, so I will compare the CompuBox (which has a 1-3% margin of error) and my own numbers.

Round One: 51

Round Two: 47

Round Three: 65

Round Four: 47

Round Five: 43

Round Six: 52

COMPUBOX NUMBERS: 295 thrown for Holyfield, 158 landed, connection percentage 54%
Foreman's was 240 thrown, 100 landed, 42% connection percentage

Round Seven: 50

Round Eight: 49

Round Nine: 58

Round Ten: 46

Round Eleven: 54

Round Twelve: 45

COMPUBOX NUMBERS: Overall 584 thrown, 355 landed, connection percentage 61% for Holyfield
Foreman's numbers were 444 thrown, 188 landed, 42% connection percentage overall

My Totals One Through Six: 305 in total
My Totals Seven Through Twelve: 302 in total
Overall Totals Throughout: 607 punches thrown

Conclusion: It seems apparent that Holyfield against 'prime' opponents starts off with Marcianoesque numbers and gradually goes down to slightly above average numbers. Against Foreman, who was 41 years old and using a crab-shell defense which makes it harder to throw punches in bunches, he was able to maintain an average of about 50 punches a round. While Holyfield is quite the athlete, he certainly was not a spartan athlete like Marciano was.

[polecateddy]

As promised some more punch stats from more modern day heavyweights of the passed thirty years. Lou Duva, who worked with Marciano, said that his protege Evander Holyfield was the most like Marciano in terms of work ethic in the gym. We are about to see if that is true via the punch stats. Mind you we have shown in the previous posts Marciano averaged 80-100 punches a round, and this only increased as the rounds went on.

Evander Holyfield, who started off as a light heavyweight in the amateurs winning a bronze medal in the 1984 Olympics, became the first man to unify the Cruiserweight titles before jumping to heavyweight. As a heavyweight Holyfield, who often fought at no more than 210 pounds, captured four heavyweight titles, and was robbed of a fifth against 7'0" 328 pound Nicolai Valuev.

Holyfield versus Dokes:

Round One: 81




Round Two: 71

Round Three: 59

Round Four: 56

Round Five: 58

Round Six: 55, then 3 punches after the bell for a total of 58

Round Seven: 50

Round Eight: 52

Round Nine: 57

Round Ten: 37 then the stoppage

Evander Holyfield versus Douglas:

Round One: 60

Round Two: 55

Round Three: 20, then the knockout

Evander Holyfield versus George Foreman:

Note: Foreman was 257 pounds to Holyfield's 208 pounds. Foreman was 24-0 (23) in his comeback that began March 9th, 1987. Incredibly Holyfield at this time was 24-0, and in his 8th heavyweight fight. COMPUBOX was in it's infancy at this time and was used in this fight, so I will compare the CompuBox (which has a 1-3% margin of error) and my own numbers.

Round One: 51

Round Two: 47

Round Three: 65

Round Four: 47

Round Five: 43

Round Six: 52

COMPUBOX NUMBERS: 295 thrown for Holyfield, 158 landed, connection percentage 54%
Foreman's was 240 thrown, 100 landed, 42% connection percentage

Round Seven: 50

Round Eight: 49

Round Nine: 58

Round Ten: 46

Round Eleven: 54

Round Twelve: 45

COMPUBOX NUMBERS: Overall 584 thrown, 355 landed, connection percentage 61% for Holyfield
Foreman's numbers were 444 thrown, 188 landed, 42% connection percentage overall

My Totals One Through Six: 305 in total
My Totals Seven Through Twelve: 302 in total
Overall Totals Throughout: 607 punches thrown

Conclusion: It seems apparent that Holyfield against 'prime' opponents starts off with Marcianoesque numbers and gradually goes down to slightly above average numbers. Against Foreman, who was 41 years old and using a crab-shell defense which makes it harder to throw punches in bunches, he was able to maintain an average of about 50 punches a round. While Holyfield is quite the athlete, he certainly was not a spartan athlete like Marciano was.

Why not use Holyfield's cruiser stats? I mean 185 pound Marciano was in the main basically a light heavy at walking around weight. Put done light heavy stats up. It's actually more relevant!

[polecateddy]

James Toney might actually hold the light heavy record, having LANDED 420 against Prince Charles Williams! If flabby James is capable of such feats it puts Rocky in more perspective.

[SamWise72]

Why not use Holyfield's cruiser stats? I mean 185 pound Marciano was in the main basically a light heavy at walking around weight. Put done light heavy stats up. It's actually more relevant!

What? You think his walking around weight would be LIGHTER than his fighting weight? Alright, that's it for me, there's no point discussing any of this with you anymore.

[polecateddy]

Why not use Holyfield's cruiser stats? I mean 185 pound Marciano was in the main basically a light heavy at walking around weight. Put done light heavy stats up. It's actually more relevant!

What? You think his walking around weight would be LIGHTER than his fighting weight? Alright, that's it for me, there's no point discussing any of this with you anymore.

Err, no the average light heavy has a walking around weight of 185 pounds. So effectively Rocky was a light heavy who fought at what most light heavies 'walk around' at. It's not rocket science! The guy was by no means that lean either! Lol

[Controversial]

Why not use Holyfield's cruiser stats? I mean 185 pound Marciano was in the main basically a light heavy at walking around weight. Put done light heavy stats up. It's actually more relevant!

What? You think his walking around weight would be LIGHTER than his fighting weight? Alright, that's it for me, there's no point discussing any of this with you anymore.

Err, no the average light heavy has a walking around weight of 185 pounds. So effectively Rocky was a light heavy who fought at what most light heavies 'walk around' at. It's not rocket science! The guy was by no means that lean either! Lol

Eh, what are you talking about? So Marciano walked around under the LHW limit of 175lb, and when he finished training he went up to 185lb? I think you will find he walked around over 200lb and trained down to 185-190lb.

[polecateddy]

The point is that he was barely bigger than a light heavy, so his punch stats should be compared against people of his own weight.

[Controversial]

The point is that he was barely bigger than a light heavy, so his punch stats should be compared against people of his own weight.

Man you really are clutching at straws aren't you. Should we class Hatton as a HW because he walked around at 14+ stone. Marciano trained so hard that's why he was the weight he was. If Haye trained the same way he wouldn't be a HW and most wouldn't weigh 17 stone as they would lose the flab they carry. Tony Thompson at the weekend is a big guy but with serious training could drop at least 30lbs. I dont doubt Marciano could have added weight if he wanted because he weighed around 210lb when he wasn't fighting, but he had no need because his opponents were of a similar weight to him.

[evrenb]

The point is that he was barely bigger than a light heavy, so his punch stats should be compared against people of his own weight.

Man you really are clutching at straws aren't you. Should we class Hatton as a HW because he walked around at 14+ stone. Marciano trained so hard that's why he was the weight he was. If Haye trained the same way he wouldn't be a HW and most wouldn't weigh 17 stone as they would lose the flab they carry. Tony Thompson at the weekend is a big guy but with serious training could drop at least 30lbs. I dont doubt Marciano could have added weight if he wanted because he weighed around 210lb when he wasn't fighting, but he had no need because his opponents were of a similar weight to him.

A Great point...Boxers fought to be lean, fit and hard with emphasis on boxing ability. They did not carry excessive amounts of extra fat. . and the will to win counts for more than anything in sports...the hunger to get 'out of the ghetto'. Long live The Rock - He never lost - both the Klitschko's did and Vitali to a lightheavyweight. Saying that i admire and think highly of both Wlad and Vitali..excellent..boring..average competition.

[polecateddy]

The point is that he was barely bigger than a light heavy, so his punch stats should be compared against people of his own weight.

Man you really are clutching at straws aren't you. Should we class Hatton as a HW because he walked around at 14+ stone. Marciano trained so hard that's why he was the weight he was. If Haye trained the same way he wouldn't be a HW and most wouldn't weigh 17 stone as they would lose the flab they carry. Tony Thompson at the weekend is a big guy but with serious training could drop at least 30lbs. I dont doubt Marciano could have added weight if he wanted because he weighed around 210lb when he wasn't fighting, but he had no need because his opponents were of a similar weight to him.

Well by my calculation his best fighting weight is 10 pounds over light heavy and a full 15 pounds under cruiserweight. So I put him in no man's land and struggling whichever way he went if magically transported to now to fight in his prime condition.

[Oswald]

The point is that he was barely bigger than a light heavy, so his punch stats should be compared against people of his own weight.

Man you really are clutching at straws aren't you. Should we class Hatton as a HW because he walked around at 14+ stone. Marciano trained so hard that's why he was the weight he was. If Haye trained the same way he wouldn't be a HW and most wouldn't weigh 17 stone as they would lose the flab they carry. Tony Thompson at the weekend is a big guy but with serious training could drop at least 30lbs. I dont doubt Marciano could have added weight if he wanted because he weighed around 210lb when he wasn't fighting, but he had no need because his opponents were of a similar weight to him.

Well by my calculation his best fighting weight is 10 pounds over light heavy and a full 15 pounds under cruiserweight. So I put him in no man's land and struggling whichever way he went if magically transported to now to fight in his prime condition.

Struggling based on what?

[polecateddy]

On sanity. Something which this thread is sorely missing. I recall Angelo Dundee being quoted as saying he would no longer consider training any fighters under 220 pounds at heavyweight. I feel the moderate success of Haye and Adamek has skewered people's view of what a smaller heavyweight can do in the current climate. But scrutiny shows Adamek had a life and death battle with faded Michael Grant. Haye, although I like him, is flattered by out-maneuvering Valuev, who by all accounts was basically crippled with joint injuries and hasn't fought since. To suggest a 5'10'', 185 pound fighter could march in and even match Adamek's and Haye's results is ludacrous.

[Oswald]

On sanity. Something which this thread is sorely missing. I recall Angelo Dundee being quoted as saying he would no longer consider training any fighters under 220 pounds at heavyweight. I feel the moderate success of Haye and Adamek has skewered people's view of what a smaller heavyweight can do in the current climate. But scrutiny shows Adamek had a life and death battle with faded Michael Grant. Haye, although I like him, is flattered by out-maneuvering Valuev, who by all accounts was basically crippled with joint injuries and hasn't fought since. To suggest a 5'10'', 185 pound fighter could march in and even match Adamek's and Haye's results is ludacrous.

Your point about Adamek is odd because he's an example of smaller fighter winning multiple bouts against bigger opponents, some of them much bigger eg Golota, McBride, Grant.

[HomicideHenry]

I will humor this man a tad bit and review some of Holyfield's cruiserweight fights via punch stat. However, I cannot see much of a jump from the stats he had at heavyweight when he only put on an additional five-ten pounds. And since he brought up Toney and Adamek, I will also post COMPUBOX numbers of some of their fights at cruiserweight---- though bare in mind there is a 1%-3% margin of error with the system (as I have shown in the Foreman/Holyfield bout that Evander actually threw more punches than what the system thought he did).

What this man seems to not recognise is fitness is fitness. Over twelve rounds at 208 pounds, Holyfield threw 607 punches (by my count) over twelve rounds against a 41 year old man who rose to #1 contender status by knocking over mainly 24 bums and fringe contenders. Marciano, by comparison and by my count, threw 691 punches in less than nine full rounds against Archie Moore.

Marciano in civillian life generally walked around as high as 240 pounds. It is that simple. He trained down to 187 pounds, but sometimes fought as high as 198 pounds, which was also the prime weight of Joe Louis and many other all time great heavyweights including Jack Dempsey. And as I have pointed out in previous posts the size of Marciano was not that much different than most of the top ten contenders of the Ali era. In fact the two men who gave Ali alot of problems in the ring, Bonavena and Frazier, were either shorter or were the exact same height as Marciano was.

Mind you this thread isn't so much about whether Marciano at 5'10" 187 pounds was capable of defeating modern sized heavyweights or even some of the all-time greats, but this thread is dedicated to the tremendous work rate and work ethic of Marciano in the gym while in training. Modernism be damned, so far Tyson and Holyfield and Klitschko haven't been able to match Marciano in terms of punch count all around.

[HomicideHenry]

As promised some of Holyfield's cruiserweight fights have been totaled in punch stats. However, I will add that the few fights I did chose two of which were against low-ranking or subpar cruiserweights with one cruiserweight fight against a #1 challenger. This will show exactly what Holyfield's prowess was overall against other great cruiserweights of the time.

Holyfield versus Brothers:

Note: Mike Brothers was a 'non-title' fight for Holyfield. Brothers was 15-4-0 against European level fighters. Holyfield was 186 pounds, one pound less than Marciano's optimum weight. This was in 1986.

Round One: 96 punches, knockdown

Round Two: 28 punches, standing eight count, total 101 punches

Round Three: 83 punches, fight was stopped

Additional note: At the time the worldwide rankings in the WBA for Holyfield's title was the following: #1- Cooper, #2- Qawi, #3- Ratliff, #4- Ocasio, #5- Crous, #6- Benton, #7- Odhiambo, #8- Tillman, #9- Parkey, #10- Alli. When one looks at the division in retrospect after all these years, what was considered then a good crop of cruiserweights, in fact were essentially average competition save for Qawi. The fact that Holyfield fought brothers after having defended his title twice already is something to be marveled at considering this man was truly an underdog in every sense of the word.

Holyfield versus Parkey:

Note: At the time of the Brother's fight Parkey was ranked #9 in the world by the WBA, and was the IBF title holder. He had a record of 20-4-0. Holyfield was 188 pounds, one pound heavier than Marciano's optimum fighting weight. This would be the first unification match of Holyfield's career.

Round One: 88 punches

Round Two: 90 punches

Round Three: 45 punches, knockdown, 61 punches, knockdown, 71 punches, slip, 80 punches stoppage

Additional Note: Following this fight Parkey would lose 15 of his next 17 fights. Prior to Holyfield, it must be noted that in Parkey's first 15 fights he went 13-2 (9) against opponents with a combined record of 70 losses, 55 wins, and 3 draws. After those first fifteen he went 7-2 (5) his best wins being over Lee Roy Murpphy and Renaldo Snipes. He lost to Bernard Benton and Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. On the whole, he was average at best as a Cruiserweight and a complete flop as a heavyweight after losing to Holyfield.

Holyfield versus Qawi II:

Note: According to BoxRec's file on this fight the stats were Holyfield 107/206 52%; Qawi 40/138 29% over the course of four rounds. Qawi's swarming style which had won him success with Holyfield in their first encounter (a split decision win for Holyfield) proved to be a non factor on this night with Holyfield using lateral movement and his jab to nullify Qawi's tactics. Holyfield was 187 pounds for this fight the same as Marciano's optimum weight. It must be dully noted that Qawi, who had pushed Holyfield to the limit in their first fight (where Holyfield lost a pound per round) was only 5'6" and 190 pounds. Holyfield, of course was 6'2".

I have not yet done my own punch count of this fight, or even the first fight. However I will resume doing so in the near future. All I can point out is that with more prime, and exceptional talents at Cruiserweight it seems Evander's punch rate decreases by a considerable margin. Against average or even second and third string competition it is no contest that he has Marcianoesque numbers, but then again who wouldn't have against a fighter like Mike Brothers or a less than reliable champion in Rickey Parkey?

Editor Note: Here is my findings on this fight via punch stats, most of Holyfield's punches were jabs.

Round One: 69 punches

Round Two: 89 punches

Round Three: 70 punches

Round Four: 48, knockdown, 68, knock out

My Totals: 296 in comparison to the BoxRec tally of 206.

Final Note: Interesting facts of Qawi himself is that he had a style similar to Marciano's. Having lost narrowly to Holyfield the first time, out classed in the second match he made the transition to heavyweight at the same time Holyfield did hoping for a third encounter. Along the way he encountered the likes of George Foreman and many other name fighters of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGJwbsf2VwA

Link to Foreman/Qawi, makes you wonder if Marciano could have beaten this version of Foreman considering how weel Qawi who was much shorter than Marciano did so well against Foreman.

[Boilermaker]

Why don't you could Adamek's punch count as a light-heavy, or Lebedev's as a cruiserweight. You'll probably find Rocky lagging behind. Totally insignificant! Why not count how many punches a round Vitali pounded on poor Shannon Briggs or Adamek himself.

it would be interesting to see Adamek's different punch outputs. Do you have any of these?

[loaded_gloves]

I can't believe after all these weeks you're all still wasting your lives trying to educate this screaming, gibbering retard 'polecateddy'. The man is a confirmed complete and utter moron without a clue about anything he's talking about. He vomits up one ridiculous, tenuous argument, it's immediately and logically refuted, so he forgets that one and just jumps onto the next equally stupid angle.

He actually thinks Rocky Marciano, a chunky 220-230lb strong man between fights, was walking around at 185! And is actually a natural light-heavyweight!

He thinks a 50 year old Archie Moore's performance against Cassius Clay is somehow relevant to anything!

Seriously, stop wasting your time on this sad old fool. You are the clever kids class. You cannot help the remedial who has been thrown in among you. Scream at him all you like, the man has severe learning difficulties, he can never catch up. Leave him be, please, because he is dragging you all down to his level.

[polecateddy]

I can't believe after all these weeks you're all still wasting your lives trying to educate this screaming, gibbering retard 'polecateddy'. The man is a confirmed complete and utter moron without a clue about anything he's talking about. He vomits up one ridiculous, tenuous argument, it's immediately and logically refuted, so he forgets that one and just jumps onto the next equally stupid angle.

He actually thinks Rocky Marciano, a chunky 220-230lb strong man between fights, was walking around at 185! And is actually a natural light-heavyweight!

He thinks a 50 year old Archie Moore's performance against Cassius Clay is somehow relevant to anything!

Seriously, stop wasting your time on this sad old fool. You are the clever kids class. You cannot help the remedial who has been thrown in among you. Scream at him all you like, the man has severe learning difficulties, he can never catch up. Leave him be, please, because he is dragging you all down to his level.

For someone who has 'window licker' listed as the chosen profession on his passport, I'm impressed you can even spell the word remedial. Good job your mommy is an ace speller!

Usual retarded misunderstanding of what I've said I see too! I simply said if his fighting weight was indeed 185 pounds, he is closer to the light-heavy limit of 175 pounds than the cruiser limit of 200 pounds. In fact if transported here today to fight at that weight then he finds himself in something of a no-mans-land!

[The Great John L]

I can't believe after all these weeks you're all still wasting your lives trying to educate this screaming, gibbering retard 'polecateddy'. The man is a confirmed complete and utter moron without a clue about anything he's talking about. He vomits up one ridiculous, tenuous argument, it's immediately and logically refuted, so he forgets that one and just jumps onto the next equally stupid angle.

He actually thinks Rocky Marciano, a chunky 220-230lb strong man between fights, was walking around at 185! And is actually a natural light-heavyweight!

He thinks a 50 year old Archie Moore's performance against Cassius Clay is somehow relevant to anything!

Seriously, stop wasting your time on this sad old fool. You are the clever kids class. You cannot help the remedial who has been thrown in among you. Scream at him all you like, the man has severe learning difficulties, he can never catch up. Leave him be, please, because he is dragging you all down to his level.

For someone who has 'window licker' listed as the chosen profession on his passport, I'm impressed you can even spell the word remedial. Good job your mommy is an ace speller!

Usual retarded misunderstanding of what I've said I see too! I simply said if his fighting weight was indeed 185 pounds, he is closer to the light-heavy limit of 175 pounds than the cruiser limit of 200 pounds. In fact if transported here today to fight at that weight then he finds himself in something of a no-mans-land!

Weight limits are the maximum that a fighter can weigh to be within that weight class; there is no minimum weight. A 185 pound fighter is a CW and is not in "no-mans-land", whatever that means. This is pretty basic stuff to not understand.