Your Top Ten HWs all time?

[gilgamesh]

A serious list...not a sarcastic one.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. George Foreman
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Joe Frazier
9. Mike Tyson
10. Wladimir Klitschko

[CrazyHorse]

Reasonable list. But can you really see Muhammad Ali beating a prime Lennox Lewis or todays version of Wladimir?

Note that I said "In no Particular order".

[Alan Partridge]

Reasonable list. But can you really see Muhammad Ali beating a prime Lennox Lewis or todays version of Wladimir?

Note that I said "In no Particular order".

Ok fair enough. However do you see Ali beating Lennox or Wlad? And if so, how? Funny thing here is, that I can see Ali beating Lewis but not Wlad, yet I see Lewis beating Wlad.

[CrazyHorse]

Reasonable list. But can you really see Muhammad Ali beating a prime Lennox Lewis or todays version of Wladimir?

Note that I said "In no Particular order".

Ok fair enough. However do you see Ali beating Lennox or Wlad? And if so, how? Funny thing here is, that I can see Ali beating Lewis but not Wlad, yet I see see Lewis beating Wlad.

That is why I don't usually put a list from #1-10. I think if Wladimir fought the right fight he could have beaten Ali and yes I wouldn't be surprised to see Lennox beat Wlad. Reason I think Wlad could beat Ali is because Wlad is a defensive first type of guy now and that Ali looked awesome when guys would follow him around the ring. I don't think Wlad would follow him and would jab from the outside and I think he would be able to do that because Wlad has a stronger and harder jab and has the size and reach advantage to do that. When Ali was made to be the aggressor he looked out of his element if so to say. Guys like Joe Louis who are very small I don't see beating those big guys like Lennox or Wlad either. Thats why I tend to not put numbers. Those guys are just who I think are in the top 10 somewhere

As for Ali vs Lennox? Hard to say. If I was forced to answer I would say Ali but no matter who I pick in that fight I would be uncomfortable because I just think that fight is in anybodies hands. Very talented men right there nonetheless

[Alan Partridge]

Ok fair enough. However do you see Ali beating Lennox or Wlad? And if so, how? Funny thing here is, that I can see Ali beating Lewis but not Wlad, yet I see see Lewis beating Wlad.[/quote]


That is why I don't usually put a list from #1-10. I think if Wladimir fought the right fight he could have beaten Ali and yes I wouldn't be surprised to see Lennox beat Wlad. Guys like Joe Louis who are very small I don't see beating those big guys like Lennox or Wlad either. Thats why I tend to not put numbers. Those guys are just who I think are in the top 10 somewhere [/quote]

Well in that case, how do you see Tyson vs Louis, or Dempsey?

[CrazyHorse]

Well in that case, how do you see Tyson vs Louis, or Dempsey?

I would see Tyson tearing through them like hot knife through butter. I know I could be wrong and Joe Louis has so much tools but Tyson has a little more size (weight, muscle) and his speed was better than Louis' in my opinion.



The best fight I would want to see of all time is Tyson-Frazier is because of their ultra aggressive styles

[Alan Partridge]

Thanks for your opinions. Unfortunately some of the posters on this thread were either sarcastic or just not knowledgeable.

[CrazyHorse]

Thanks for your opinions. Unfortunately some of the posters on this thread were either sarcastic or just not knowledgeable.

No problem. I love talking boxing

[SamWise72]

Reasonable list. But can you really see Muhammad Ali beating a prime Lennox Lewis or todays version of Wladimir?

Note that I said "In no Particular order".

Ok fair enough. However do you see Ali beating Lennox or Wlad? And if so, how? Funny thing here is, that I can see Ali beating Lewis but not Wlad, yet I see Lewis beating Wlad.

I see a prime Ali beating Wlad with relative ease; he's not a great defensive boxer, he's just doing simple things well against very poor opposition. I don't think it would be a high output fight; Ali is going to want Wlad to come to him, which even now Wlad is willing to do, and he'll be in and out with the combinations. Lewis is going to knock Wlad out.

[jezzamundo]

I used to do an all-time top 10, but don't really feel that I know enough about fighters pre Joe Louis, such as Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson to be able to fairly rate them. So I'm sticking with the last 30 years, only taking into account fights that took place 1983 onwards (so only Foreman's 2nd career is taken into account and Holmes is only credited for his last 7 successful defenses).

1. Lennox Lewis - Could be switched with Holyfield depending on my mood
2. Evander Holyfield - See above
3. Mike Tyson - Devastating at his best but lacks the resume of the two above
4. Larry Holmes - best wins were more than 30 yrs ago, would be #1 taking whole career into account
5. Riddick Bowe - shorter time on top, but wins over Holyfield better than anything the Ks have done, plus I'm confident he'd beat Wlad, while a fight with Vitali would be 50:50.
6. Wladimir Klitschko - long reign against weak opposition, likely loses to most in this list
7. Vitali Klitschko - better fighter than Wlad but weaker resume
8. George Foreman - could be switched with Witherspoon
9. Tim Witherspoon - best of the 80s not named Holmes or Tyson
10. Michael Moorer - was hard to pick, could easily be someone else

[Mr E]

Nowadays, I break it up by era-- and I go by who I think would have beaten whom, head-to-head.

Old-Timers (1882-1915): I see it as being between Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson, and I don't think either guy could have beaten the other even 7 times out of 10.

Golden Age (1916-1956): I see it as being between Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis. However, I think Gene Tunney and Rocky Marciano are real close and so have no strong argument to someone putting those guys in there.

Modern Era (1957-1987): Muhammad Ali, no question. Battle for 2nd place would be between George Foreman and Larry Holmes, with Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier being close honorable mentions.

Steroid/P.E.D. Era (1988-present): I need to go back and take a hard look at the early fights of Mike Tyson's reign, which I have not seen since I saw them live, to determine how much he'd lost by the time of the Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield fights. My instinct is that he lost a lot, and that the best of this era comes down to Mike Tyson v. Lennox Lewis. That said, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and the Klitschko brothers are definitely in the conversation.

My two cents, anyway.

[SenorPipino]

Lot of people seem to think Lewis would beat Ali.
The late Emmanuel Steward said he viewed the fight as a toss-up. Considering he was training Lewis at the time, I think Steward's waffling indicates that he favored Ali. So do I. Too much foot speed and movement movement for the lumbering Brit.

[Ezzard]

Nowadays, I break it up by era-- and I go by who I think would have beaten whom, head-to-head.

Old-Timers (1882-1915): I see it as being between Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson, and I don't think either guy could have beaten the other even 7 times out of 10.

Golden Age (1916-1956): I see it as being between Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis. However, I think Gene Tunney and Rocky Marciano are real close and so have no strong argument to someone putting those guys in there.

Modern Era (1957-1987): Muhammad Ali, no question. Battle for 2nd place would be between George Foreman and Larry Holmes, with Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier being close honorable mentions.

Steroid/P.E.D. Era (1988-present): I need to go back and take a hard look at the early fights of Mike Tyson's reign, which I have not seen since I saw them live, to determine how much he'd lost by the time of the Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield fights. My instinct is that he lost a lot, and that the best of this era comes down to Mike Tyson v. Lennox Lewis. That said, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, and the Klitschko brothers are definitely in the conversation.

My two cents, anyway.

Like how you did this...

Old Timers: Johnson, Jeffries, Langford

Golden Age: Louis, Dempsey, Tunney

Modern: Ali, Frazier, Holmes

PED: Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson (probably)

[SamWise72]

Lot of people seem to think Lewis would beat Ali.
The late Emmanuel Steward said he viewed the fight as a toss-up. Considering he was training Lewis at the time, I think Steward's waffling indicates that he favored Ali. So do I. Too much foot speed and movement movement for the lumbering Brit.

Agreed. It would be a hard fight, Lewis would stick him with that jab quite often, but a prime Ali is going to have way too much movement, and will land too many combos. Thrilla era Ali vs Lewis would be a near death experience for both men.

[The Great John L]

Lot of people seem to think Lewis would beat Ali.
The late Emmanuel Steward said he viewed the fight as a toss-up. Considering he was training Lewis at the time, I think Steward's waffling indicates that he favored Ali. So do I. Too much foot speed and movement movement for the lumbering Brit.

Agreed. It would be a hard fight, Lewis would stick him with that jab quite often, but a prime Ali is going to have way too much movement, and will land too many combos. Thrilla era Ali vs Lewis would be a near death experience for both men.

The Manilla version of Ali would do well against a prime Lewis!? Is that what you're saying here?

[loaded_gloves]

I don't see why the Manila Ali couldn't beat Lewis? A hep-ridden 36 year old beer barrel Ray Mercer gave LL life and death.

A Zeljko Mavrovic, already in the early stages of a wasting disease, fought at an unusually hard pace for modern heavyweights and scared LL half to death.

This isn't Morrison or Tua or Ruddock or Bruno here, or Mercer or Mavrovic either, this is Ali.

[The Great John L]

I don't see why the Manila Ali couldn't beat Lewis? A hep-ridden 36 year old beer barrel Ray Mercer gave LL life and death.

A Zeljko Mavrovic, already in the early stages of a wasting disease, fought at an unusually hard pace for modern heavyweights and scared LL half to death.

This isn't Morrison or Tua or Ruddock or Bruno here, or Mercer or Mavrovic either, this is Ali.

OK, if that's how you rationalize it.

[loaded_gloves]

Okay, I take it you see Ali being totally outgunned by Lennox Lewis. Fair enough. Would you like to expand?

Lewis really did look poor in fast-paced fights against men who, although very tough and respectable, are not among the greats. When someone jabbed with him and didn't allow him to do what he wanted he did seem to run out of ideas fast.

[Oswald]

1) Nikolai Valuev
2) Henry Akinwande
3) Primo Carnera

who else is tall....?

[loaded_gloves]

1) Nikolai Valuev
2) Henry Akinwande
3) Primo Carnera

who else is tall....?

Good choices. Stanley Wright was 6'9'' and stopped the undefeated Peter McNeeley, who was a bigger, stronger, and better version of Rocky Marciano, and Mike 'The Giant' White was 7ft tall and beat Buster Douglas, which just goes to show how badly he'd have punished Mike Tyson if Tyson hadn't ducked him and fought small heavyweights like Tony Tucker and Mitch Green.

[CrazyHorse]

I don't see why the Manila Ali couldn't beat Lewis? A hep-ridden 36 year old beer barrel Ray Mercer gave LL life and death.

A Zeljko Mavrovic, already in the early stages of a wasting disease, fought at an unusually hard pace for modern heavyweights and scared LL half to death.

This isn't Morrison or Tua or Ruddock or Bruno here, or Mercer or Mavrovic either, this is Ali.

The legendary Doug Jones gave Ali lots of trouble

[loaded_gloves]

I don't see why the Manila Ali couldn't beat Lewis? A hep-ridden 36 year old beer barrel Ray Mercer gave LL life and death.

A Zeljko Mavrovic, already in the early stages of a wasting disease, fought at an unusually hard pace for modern heavyweights and scared LL half to death.

This isn't Morrison or Tua or Ruddock or Bruno here, or Mercer or Mavrovic either, this is Ali.

The legendary Doug Jones gave Ali lots of trouble

Welcome to the conversation, we're discussing the experienced versions of Muhammad Ali and Lennox Lewis, deep into their careers. Doug Jones troubling a 20 year old Cassius Clay doesn't really correlate with a 32 year old reigning champion Lennox Lewis struggling with the chin and pace of, say, a Zeljko Mavrovic.

[stevedoc]

1) frank bruno
2) ken lukasta
3) jean chanet
4) bruce seldon
5) chuck wepner
6) herbie hide
7) tyrell biggs
8) tyson fury
9) tommy morrison
10) joe louis

bruno....bruno.....bruno.........................

[Crease]

1. David Haye
2. Greg Page
3. Pinklon Thomas
4. Tim Witherspoon
5. Evander Holyfield
6. Mike Weaver
7. Vitali Klitchsko
8. Henry Cooper
9. Martin Rogan
10. Frank Bruno

[CrazyHorse]

1) Nikolai Valuev
2) Henry Akinwande
3) Primo Carnera

who else is tall....?

Tye "Big Sky" Fields
6''8
270 lbs
26 1st Rd Knockouts
49 Wins
44 KO's
Wins over Bruce Seldon, Sherman Williams, Konstantin Airich and Michael Sprott
Career 81.48 KO %