Cooper/Ali(Clay)

[Brutu]

Regardless of any delay or however long if only seconds it had been.

It would certainly settle a lot of doubt that people have had in their minds about it
for at least the past 30 years,
if the entire complete BBC transmission
was available(including the ring walks)for most everyone to see.

Also I came across the names of some of the reporters and the newspapers
they worked for that covered the fight that night ,so maybe someone can track them down and download the articles here.

Peter Wilson-Daily Mirror
Donald Saunders-Daily Telegraph
Steve Fagan-Daily Sketch

[Brutu]

Here is a link to a rarely seen photograph.


http://mirrorpix.com/webgate/preview.ph ... D=00131210

[Controversial]

Here is a link to a rarely seen photograph.


http://mirrorpix.com/webgate/preview.ph ... D=00131210

Looks fake to me, are you sure that's not been photoshopped?

[Giancarlo]

Here is a link to a rarely seen photograph.


http://mirrorpix.com/webgate/preview.ph ... D=00131210

Looks fake to me, are you sure that's not been photoshopped?

Brutu, that's Ali's head on someone elses body surely.

[Brutu]

Here is a link to a rarely seen photograph.


http://mirrorpix.com/webgate/preview.ph ... D=00131210

Looks like he may have been actually unconcious for at least half a mo' anyway.

[Controversial]

Here is a link to a rarely seen photograph.


http://mirrorpix.com/webgate/preview.ph ... D=00131210

Looks fake to me, are you sure that's not been photoshopped?

Brutu, that's Ali's head on someone elses body surely.

Yeah that's what I thought, we need to see the original negative

[Brutu]

That was my point, then how do you know if the copy of Clay vrs Cooper that you have isnt the abridged copy
that the BBC perhaps had to purchase back from another source(Big Fights Inc)?

Well if you know more than tony fosco did about fight film then your a legend too...you are being deliberately cynical, objectionate, cantankerous and as I have told you how much time and money tony and I have spent on this, totally disrespectful...i was going to go to the effort of loading the film up for you but it is very clear to.me you are not interested in the truth but rather inciting argument for argument sake...you are annoying and I will not have any further contact with you..im sure you dont mind anyway...eb

No one is questioning Tony Fosco if the BBC sent this English collector a copy
were it begins as soon as the bell rung for round one,
then he was sent an edited version which he gave to Tony Fosco.
whether or not part was deleted between the fourth
and Fifth rounds.

[Brutu]

I dont know about you mate,but personally I think it disrepectful
for some others on this thread and elsewhere, to insinuate that the late Sir Henry Cooper
was a blooming bloody bleadin liar,just so he get more bookings
for a few extra quid to tell his tale tales at the after dinner engagements.
I dont know what went on either that June evening in 1963.
But I would like to give Henry Cooper the benefit of the doubt.

[Giancarlo]

I dont know about you mate,but personally I think it disrepectful
for some others on this thread and elsewhere, to insinuate that the late Sir Henry Cooper
was a blooming bloody bleadin liar,just so he get more bookings
for a few extra quid to tell his tale tales at the after dinner engagements.
I dont know what went on either that June evening in 1963.
But I would like to give Henry Cooper the benefit of the doubt.

What about the people on this thread who are insinuating that you are a nutter Brutu?

[Brutu]

It's probably sheer Projection I would suspect old chap.

[Giancarlo]

It's probably sheer Projection I would suspect old chap.

Noted.

[Brutu]

BBC article from 2003,Sounds like they may have given in to the revisionist since then.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/2999248.stm

[Controversial]

BBC article from 2003,Sounds like they may have given in to the revisionist since then.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/2999248.stm

except its clear the journalist was interviewing Henry Cooper as it keeps quoting him. The same Henry Cooper who has told the same story a billion times and actually believed it himself.

[Controversial]

BBC article from 2003,Sounds like they may have given in to the revisionist since then.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/2999248.stm

The same BBC journalist from above link from 2003 (Sanjeev Shetty) reporting on the death of Henry Cooper in 2011 now says it was seconds, not minutes.

"The extra seconds that Clay got to recover allowed him to come out refreshed for the fifth round and finish the fight, opening up a hideous cut on Cooper's face which forced the stoppage."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/2635355.stm

[T_J]

The BoxRec summary of the fight includes the following quote from ringside timekeeper Stan Courtney:

"At no time was I instructed to stop my watch to allow for the refitting of the gloves. Therefore, I waited until I got the signal from referee Little to ring the bell. When I did so, my watch showed that the interval between rounds had in fact been 1:40."
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Muham ... t_meeting)

So, either the footage is edited or Courtney's memory was playing tricks on him.

[evrenb]

The BoxRec summary of the fight includes the following quote from ringside timekeeper Stan Courtney:

"At no time was I instructed to stop my watch to allow for the refitting of the gloves. Therefore, I waited until I got the signal from referee Little to ring the bell. When I did so, my watch showed that the interval between rounds had in fact been 1:40."
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Muham ... t_meeting)

So, either the footage is edited or Courtney's memory was playing tricks on him.

Its a confusing one...i believe i have the original unedited broadcast which i obtained from the bbc and the delay is something like 6 seconds....when The Boxing News done an investigation a few years back they listened to the original radio broadcast and found the same...six seconds....
So the questions are : were both the radio and tv broadcasts edited, both to the exact same 6 seconds. Being very pro Cooper as the press were why would they have edited to the disadvantage of Henry....???

[Ezzard]

I'd love for Cooper to have won. Can't beat a good underdog victory. But Ali would still be the greatest.

[BoxBuzz]

Why wasn't Angel Dundee suspended by the British Boxing Board for 'illegal doctoring' of
a boxer's gloves.

It was almost like putting 'liniment' on a glove for the purposes of blinding an opponent.

A 'slice' in the correct spot of a 'Boxing Glove', is almost like putting a 'Razor' in the
punching tool.

Is it really? Can we try that sometime in the ring? I'll use the razored gloves, and you can use the glove with a hole in it. And we'll compare the outcomes. You may be right about this...and I say it's worth the effort to get to the bottom of this mystery.

[evrenb]

Lol...was waiting for the ali dig...il duce has become a joke....probably watches ali vs holmes all day long on repeat..pleasing himself...makin the bald man sick!!

[BoxBuzz]

Got to go with Henry Cooper in the September 1963 'rematch' at Wembley.

Cut is 'healed-and-sealed' with Epoxy.

Cassius, very lucky in June 1963, when the 'sliced glove' did the job over Henry's eye.

Good battle thru 3-Rounds, but Cassius starts to 'gas' do the 'Super Fast Pace'.

Round 4, Henry drives the 'now' Singer/Boxer all over the Ring, sending replay left-hooks
into the Lips of the Louisville Slugger.

By Round 7, it is Cassius who is cut, and his right-eye is closed after catching left-hooks
all night long.

At the {1:00 Mark} Cassius punches Henry below the belt to buy some 'Big Ben' Time.

After a 2-Minute rest period, Henry comes on like a Freight Train, and sends Cassius'
mouthpiece flying into the Thames River with his teeth still locked in the rubber-protector.

Moments later, Cassius goes down into the canvas face first, where he lays prone for several
minutes.

.......Moments later Henry wakes up to the sound of his alarm clock.....He's had this dream now for 6 nights in a row. He wonders what it means.

[yancey]

Got to go with Henry Cooper in the September 1963 'rematch' at Wembley.

Cut is 'healed-and-sealed' with Epoxy.

Cassius, very lucky in June 1963, when the 'sliced glove' did the job over Henry's eye.

Good battle thru 3-Rounds, but Cassius starts to 'gas' do the 'Super Fast Pace'.

Round 4, Henry drives the 'now' Singer/Boxer all over the Ring, sending replay left-hooks
into the Lips of the Louisville Slugger.

By Round 7, it is Cassius who is cut, and his right-eye is closed after catching left-hooks
all night long.

At the {1:00 Mark} Cassius punches Henry below the belt to buy some 'Big Ben' Time.

After a 2-Minute rest period, Henry comes on like a Freight Train, and sends Cassius'
mouthpiece flying into the Thames River with his teeth still locked in the rubber-protector.

Moments later, Cassius goes down into the canvas face first, where he lays prone for several
minutes.

[evrenb]

Got to go with Henry Cooper in the September 1963 'rematch' at Wembley.

Cut is 'healed-and-sealed' with Epoxy.

Cassius, very lucky in June 1963, when the 'sliced glove' did the job over Henry's eye.

Good battle thru 3-Rounds, but Cassius starts to 'gas' do the 'Super Fast Pace'.

Round 4, Henry drives the 'now' Singer/Boxer all over the Ring, sending replay left-hooks
into the Lips of the Louisville Slugger.

By Round 7, it is Cassius who is cut, and his right-eye is closed after catching left-hooks
all night long.

At the {1:00 Mark} Cassius punches Henry below the belt to buy some 'Big Ben' Time.

After a 2-Minute rest period, Henry comes on like a Freight Train, and sends Cassius'
mouthpiece flying into the Thames River with his teeth still locked in the rubber-protector.

Moments later, Cassius goes down into the canvas face first, where he lays prone for several
minutes.

.......Moments later Henry wakes up to the sound of his alarm clock.....He's had this dream now for 6 nights in a row. He wonders what it means.

Lol beautiful

[klompton]

As sad as it is I think trollduce has had this dream more than Cooper has.

[evrenb]

As sad as it is I think trollduce has had this dream more than Cooper has.

Each dream more erotic than the next...

[evrenb]

I have just picked up my tape of the original broadcast...i am going to attempt to relay the interval with the commentary and time ....will be interesting...