WBC condemns AIBA and challenges IOC

[Tarquin Tarpaulin V]

So how comes your US Olympic team flopped?[/quote]
Things are much different now , the kids I'm hyping Are not old enough for Olympics year but trust me change is coming in a big way. Plus Usa now has Senor Pedro as head coach , look at results since Senor Pedro been involved with Team Usa , like 10 Golds n counting at Tournaments. Usa has 3 very promising future heavyweights under the age of 18.[/quote]

Oh come on...

Tournament wins can be manipulated (by choosing which one's you enter) and whilst i'm not saying it's the case you don't go from a dismal performance in August 2012 to international success in 6 months!

Success as a 14 year old does not always translate to the senior ranks where early maturity is no longer a factor.

[scallum]

So how comes your US Olympic team flopped?

Things are much different now , the kids I'm hyping Are not old enough for Olympics year but trust me change is coming in a big way. Plus Usa now has Senor Pedro as head coach , look at results since Senor Pedro been involved with Team Usa , like 10 Golds n counting at Tournaments. Usa has 3 very promising future heavyweights under the age of 18.[/quote]

Oh come on...

Tournament wins can be manipulated (by choosing which one's you enter) and whilst i'm not saying it's the case you don't go from a dismal performance in August 2012 to international success in 6 months!

Success as a 14 year old does not always translate to the senior ranks where early maturity is no longer a factor.[/quote]
Watch n see what happens at World Juniours in August. And u are right success at 14 doesn't guarantee anything, if one was smart he would truly test his fighter vs older adults and see if indeed he has the goods lol. Back to the topic.I think Aiba has made a brilliant move by allowing pro boxers to fight in Olympics. If Klitscho figgts in 2016 will be must see tv

[ReggieDiggs]

Usa has 3 very promising future heavyweights under the age of 18.

Who are they?

17 yr old 6 ft 4 220 pound John Luna heard he is very tough out for anyone , 15 yr old 200 plus pound Pano Tiatia very good athlete really quick , short n powerful build like Tyson ,very smart and tricky in the ring. 14 yr old 6 ft 4 176 pound Sugar Suray Mahmutovic, very , very good defense and extremely good jab ,real smart ring command. Senor Pedro Roque is working with these kids.

Those kids seem super young. 2/3 not even competing in the Senior division. I'll keep an eye on them though.

[scallum]

The all on Team Usa and get to work at Usa Olympic Training Center for weeks at a Time , even during the School year.The two younger ones have built up most impressive resumes in Jr Golden Gloves and Silver Gloves. The best thing about being younger on Team Usa is at times you get to Work n spar with The Elite Team Members

[ABC BOXING]

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/don-kin ... ore-213809

[JMac]

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/don-kin ... ore-213809

Yeah right, we should all listen to Don King who is one of the leaders of corrupt fools who have ruined pro boxing due to his and their greed. The alphabets and promotors are getting real nervous at the thought of ABIA starting a pro league when they have first dibs on the best amateurs. I hope AIBA is successful if only just to put the Don Kings, Bob Arums and all of the ABC's bodies out of business.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

AIBA have suspended England.....

Apparently we can't be led by the nose like some nations ;;-)

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/don-kin ... ore-213809

Yeah right, we should all listen to Don King who is one of the leaders of corrupt fools who have ruined pro boxing due to his and their greed. The alphabets and promotors are getting real nervous at the thought of ABIA starting a pro league when they have first dibs on the best amateurs. I hope AIBA is successful if only just to put the Don Kings, Bob Arums and all of the ABC's bodies out of business.

The idea that a monopoly is replaced by another monopoly is an interesting one but pro boxing is business. AIBA pro boxing is poor business. The British Lionhearts team featured a Tongan boxing a Russian in Kazakhstan. Even Don couldn't sell that one.... D

Don King and Arum, you don't like, what about Schaefer?

[scallum]

AIBA have suspended England.....

Apparently we can't be led by the nose like some nations ;;-)

Why did England get suspended

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

AIBA have suspended England.....

Apparently we can't be led by the nose like some nations ;;-)

Why did England get suspended

Because they refused to let the WSB (Pro) BOXERS compete in the national championships considering it to be unfair and unsafe. Against AIBA statutes apparently.

Because ABAE are restructuring under the watchful eye of Englands government funding paymaster (£5m over 4 years) Sport England who AIBA consider to be an outside influence!!!!???? AIBA have to approve all national federations constitutions!

The bottom line is that the majority of clubs and volunteers want to remain amateur but AIBA want us to sign up to WSB and AIBA Professional boxing.

Questions should be asked as to why a Non Profit making Ltd company, AIBA, is set up in a secretive tax haven in Switzerland and what gives them the right to influence the activities of another Ltd company in another country?

It seems that the US are happy to oblige AIBA's whims, whilst still undecided if headguards are good or bad for you ;)

[scallum]

AIBA have suspended England.....

Apparently we can't be led by the nose like some nations ;;-)

Why did England get suspended

Because they refused to let the WSB (Pro) BOXERS compete in the national championships considering it to be unfair and unsafe. Against AIBA statutes apparently.

Because ABAE are restructuring under the watchful eye of Englands government funding paymaster (£5m over 4 years) Sport England who AIBA consider to be an outside influence!!!!???? AIBA have to approve all national federations constitutions!

The bottom line is that the majority of clubs and volunteers want to remain amateur but AIBA want us to sign up to WSB and AIBA Professional boxing.

Questions should be asked as to why a Non Profit making Ltd company, AIBA, is set up in a secretive tax haven in Switzerland and what gives them the right to influence the activities of another Ltd company in another country?

It seems that the US are happy to oblige AIBA's whims, whilst still undecided if headguards are good or bad for you ;)

Wsb boxing is not big at all here in Usa.England will have to get onboard or they will just be costing thier kids any and all international events? Aiba is in Charge of everything Amatuer boxing. I don't think anyone can have any sancioned shows once put on suspensions? Usa was on suspensions and no boxing at all was permitted,what can you do when one agency has all the power?

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Wsb boxing is not big at all here in Usa.England will have to get onboard or they will just be costing thier kids any and all international events? Aiba is in Charge of everything Amatuer boxing. I don't think anyone can have any sancioned shows once put on suspensions? Usa was on suspensions and no boxing at all was permitted,what can you do when one agency has all the power?

Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England and St.George'...
;)


PS: Unlike the US the vast majority of English gyms are 100% amateur operations led by volunteers. WSB (which was underwritten for the first season to the tune of £2m for the British Lionhearts alone) and the links to the APB are a step too far.

In real terms International boxing affects such a small percentage of the activity over here. Yes it would be dissapointing for the boxers but the sport is bigger than a handful of individuals.

[JMac]

Yeah right, we should all listen to Don King who is one of the leaders of corrupt fools who have ruined pro boxing due to his and their greed. The alphabets and promotors are getting real nervous at the thought of ABIA starting a pro league when they have first dibs on the best amateurs. I hope AIBA is successful if only just to put the Don Kings, Bob Arums and all of the ABC's bodies out of business.

The idea that a monopoly is replaced by another monopoly is an interesting one but pro boxing is business. AIBA pro boxing is poor business. The British Lionhearts team featured a Tongan boxing a Russian in Kazakhstan. Even Don couldn't sell that one.... D

Don King and Arum, you don't like, what about Schaefer?

I'm not keen on monopolies but my dislike for the ones that have ruined pro boxing is higher. Why is APB bad business? Sure they could screw up pro boxing as well but it can't get worse than it already is. I don't like many things about AIBA especially the way they have started to micro manage amateur boxing but I just want to see them put the ABC's and the promotors out of business.
As for promotors, they all only care about their bottom line, not the boxers or the sport and that goes for Schaefer, Warren, the whole bunch. Oh, and Don King could sell a Tongan vs a Russian anywhere if it puts money in his pocket.

[ReggieDiggs]

Yep. I'd love to see any structure and consistency in pro boxing and the status quo isn't gonna bring that any time soon. AIBA is a longshot and by no means perfect, but its the only option I see right now that can improve things.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Yeah right, we should all listen to Don King who is one of the leaders of corrupt fools who have ruined pro boxing due to his and their greed. The alphabets and promotors are getting real nervous at the thought of ABIA starting a pro league when they have first dibs on the best amateurs. I hope AIBA is successful if only just to put the Don Kings, Bob Arums and all of the ABC's bodies out of business.

The idea that a monopoly is replaced by another monopoly is an interesting one but pro boxing is business. AIBA pro boxing is poor business. The British Lionhearts team featured a Tongan boxing a Russian in Kazakhstan. Even Don couldn't sell that one.... D

Don King and Arum, you don't like, what about Schaefer?

I'm not keen on monopolies but my dislike for the ones that have ruined pro boxing is higher. Why is APB bad business? Sure they could screw up pro boxing as well but it can't get worse than it already is. I don't like many things about AIBA especially the way they have started to micro manage amateur boxing but I just want to see them put the ABC's and the promotors out of business.
As for promotors, they all only care about their bottom line, not the boxers or the sport and that goes for Schaefer, Warren, the whole bunch. Oh, and Don King could sell a Tongan vs a Russian anywhere if it puts money in his pocket.

Golden Boys Richard Schaefer has met with Dr Wu of AIBA and their are some out there who think a deal has been struck, which sort of shoots a hole in your AIBA = holier than thou argument.

APB cannot work as it is intended to pitch boxers into competitive bouts from day one. Those who shout 'fantastic' ignore the fact that headline fighters are developed slowly, packaged accordingly, and followed fanatically because of the persona the pro promoters and managers create. If you don't like it now then you'd best tear up the heritage of the sport as everybody from Johnson therough to Dempsey, Marciano through to Muhammad Ali were 'managed' fighters.

AIBA via WSB have yet to understand that fans follow fighters, not countries. With the exception of the Ukrainians and a couple of others you don't fill stadiums and draw TV audiences without personalities. I bet most on here couldn't name more than 2 or 3 London 2012 Boxing Medallists? That's not a pop it's just that even the cream of the crop easily go unnoticed.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Yep. I'd love to see any structure and consistency in pro boxing and the status quo isn't gonna bring that any time soon. AIBA is a longshot and by no means perfect, but its the only option I see right now that can improve things.

Not forgetting their promise of Olympic places is considered illegal...

[scallum]

Does anyone know what England has to do to get off suspensions? Some other country was also placed on suspensions. Where is Aiba headquarters? Those guys are really powerful, gonna be interesting to see what happens I. 2016 Olympics. I wonder if a guy like Floyd requested to be in Olympics would they approve it?

[JMac]

Golden Boys Richard Schaefer has met with Dr Wu of AIBA and their are some out there who think a deal has been struck, which sort of shoots a hole in your AIBA = holier than thou argument.

APB cannot work as it is intended to pitch boxers into competitive bouts from day one. Those who shout 'fantastic' ignore the fact that headline fighters are developed slowly, packaged accordingly, and followed fanatically because of the persona the pro promoters and managers create. If you don't like it now then you'd best tear up the heritage of the sport as everybody from Johnson therough to Dempsey, Marciano through to Muhammad Ali were 'managed' fighters.

AIBA via WSB have yet to understand that fans follow fighters, not countries. With the exception of the Ukrainians and a couple of others you don't fill stadiums and draw TV audiences without personalities. I bet most on here couldn't name more than 2 or 3 London 2012 Boxing Medallists? That's not a pop it's just that even the cream of the crop easily go unnoticed.

First of all, I never said AIBA is holier than thou at all. I did say there are many things I do not like about AIBA, but for me, I just really can't stand the ABC's and promoters. As for GBP and Schaefer...a few years ago they had a "Deal" with USA Boxing and they were going to help, etc. They didn't do a damn thing and my guess is that if they are trying to cut a deal with Wu, it would be for the same reason they tried to cut a deal with USAB which was to get first crack at the best boxers. If they can't get that, they will disappear like a cockroach when the light comes on.
As for headline fighters that are developed slowly, packaged accordingly, and followed fanatically, that works well with a Tyson or Hughie Fury type fighter with limited amateur or non Olympic experience but the boxers who have competed in the Olympics like Deontay Wilder don't need to be coddled so much and fed so many bums. I know Wilder had the least of experience of the '08 US team but he boxed in the worlds, Olympic qualifier's, Pan Am's and the Olympics and he can easily pick up the pace. Pro boxing will never be what it was at the current structure so anything new would be an improvement. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Golden Boys Richard Schaefer has met with Dr Wu of AIBA and their are some out there who think a deal has been struck, which sort of shoots a hole in your AIBA = holier than thou argument.

APB cannot work as it is intended to pitch boxers into competitive bouts from day one. Those who shout 'fantastic' ignore the fact that headline fighters are developed slowly, packaged accordingly, and followed fanatically because of the persona the pro promoters and managers create. If you don't like it now then you'd best tear up the heritage of the sport as everybody from Johnson therough to Dempsey, Marciano through to Muhammad Ali were 'managed' fighters.

AIBA via WSB have yet to understand that fans follow fighters, not countries. With the exception of the Ukrainians and a couple of others you don't fill stadiums and draw TV audiences without personalities. I bet most on here couldn't name more than 2 or 3 London 2012 Boxing Medallists? That's not a pop it's just that even the cream of the crop easily go unnoticed.

First of all, I never said AIBA is holier than thou at all. I did say there are many things I do not like about AIBA, but for me, I just really can't stand the ABC's and promoters. As for GBP and Schaefer...a few years ago they had a "Deal" with USA Boxing and they were going to help, etc. They didn't do a damn thing and my guess is that if they are trying to cut a deal with Wu, it would be for the same reason they tried to cut a deal with USAB which was to get first crack at the best boxers. If they can't get that, they will disappear like a cockroach when the light comes on.
As for headline fighters that are developed slowly, packaged accordingly, and followed fanatically, that works well with a Tyson or Hughie Fury type fighter with limited amateur or non Olympic experience but the boxers who have competed in the Olympics like Deontay Wilder don't need to be coddled so much and fed so many bums. I know Wilder had the least of experience of the '08 US team but he boxed in the worlds, Olympic qualifier's, Pan Am's and the Olympics and he can easily pick up the pace. Pro boxing will never be what it was at the current structure so anything new would be an improvement. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

I think you miss my point Mac. Fury et al are brought along slowly because they are potential cash cows/investments. The aplphabet bodies exist because they can make money as individuals by promoting those investments, not by pitching against each other. Sadly the notion that we'll have a list of 12 unified champions doesn't sit well in a commercial world.

A prime example of career death wish matching of the sort that would be seen with a single governing body is no better exemplified than by the recent clash between Englands David Price and the US's Tony Thompson. An old man, near career end Tony Thompson all but ending the career of a bright former Olympic Bronze heavyweight prospect.

AIBA's APB will see boxers destroying each other before they build into worldwide names.

[tflanagan5]

A prime example of career death wish matching of the sort that would be seen with a single governing body is no better exemplified than by the recent clash between Englands David Price and the US's Tony Thompson. An old man, near career end Tony Thompson all but ending the career of a bright former Olympic Bronze heavyweight prospect.

AIBA's APB will see boxers destroying each other before they build into worldwide names.[/quote]

Price is 30 how much more time did he need to reach his potential? it was noted that he had a dodgy chin since his amatuer days. i think price is a terrific fighter and if he had a good chin he would be a world champion already but he doesnt. he has a huge weakness that anyone who is able to withstand his power will more than likely beat as proved by thompson. APB seems like that the best fighters become world champions , if your not good enough you will eventually be found out earlier than you would be in the pro ranks.theres always going to be tales of young fighters who got put in with oppisition that was too much too soon but its the same in every sport, football players who were supposed to be great when they were 17 turn out not to make it. showing potential early doesnt mean you will be good enough when your fully mature. saul alverez was fighting former world champions when he was 19 and his a world champion now because he is good enough to be one, his potential was real. apb means that the best will fight the best unlike what can happen in the pro game ,eg pac-man vs Mayweather

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

A prime example of career death wish matching of the sort that would be seen with a single governing body is no better exemplified than by the recent clash between Englands David Price and the US's Tony Thompson. An old man, near career end Tony Thompson all but ending the career of a bright former Olympic Bronze heavyweight prospect.

AIBA's APB will see boxers destroying each other before they build into worldwide names.

Price is 30 how much more time did he need to reach his potential? it was noted that he had a dodgy chin since his amatuer days. i think price is a terrific fighter and if he had a good chin he would be a world champion already but he doesnt. he has a huge weakness that anyone who is able to withstand his power will more than likely beat as proved by thompson. APB seems like that the best fighters become world champions , if your not good enough you will eventually be found out earlier than you would be in the pro ranks.theres always going to be tales of young fighters who got put in with oppisition that was too much too soon but its the same in every sport, football players who were supposed to be great when they were 17 turn out not to make it. showing potential early doesnt mean you will be good enough when your fully mature. saul alverez was fighting former world champions when he was 19 and his a world champion now because he is good enough to be one, his potential was real. apb means that the best will fight the best unlike what can happen in the pro game ,eg pac-man vs Mayweather[/quote]

It's not about age, it's about whether fighters should face all comers early doors. Or rather if they do can they still build a following and leave a legacy?

Thompson is a 38 bout honest career pro who most over here hadn't heard of, despite him having challenged for world honours. What makes you think that the APB idea of pitching fighters together in the early stages will make them well known later in their careers, particularly if they have a run of losses on their card? This isn't MMA! ;)

[JMac]

Sadly the notion that we'll have a list of 12 unified champions doesn't sit well in a commercial world.

Thompson is a 38 bout honest career pro who most over here hadn't heard of, despite him having challenged for world honours. What makes you think that the APB idea of pitching fighters together in the early stages will make them well known later in their careers, particularly if they have a run of losses on their card? This isn't MMA! ;)

Commercial world???? What TV? They are part of the problem. Boxing is losing fans because some many fights that are on TV are crap fights for BS titles. I've been involved in boxing for over 35 years. I could not tell you who any of the champions are now mostly because I refuse to try and follow the ABC's with their way too many weight classes, way too many BS titles, BS rankings and that there are way too many ABC's! I am sure just about all people not involved in boxing don't know who any champions are either. There was a time before all of the ABC's came about and there was only 8 weight classes, that almost everybody, fans and non fans knew who the middleweight and heavyweight champ of the world was. A few years ago, I took my sons to a pro boxing show that featured 3 boxers that had boxed in the '08 US Olympic trials, Fernado Guerrero, Dominic Wade and Shawn Porter. They all KO'd a bum in the 1st round who probably could not win an amateur novice tournament. That's what's wrong with pro boxing. Maybe some people like that watching a very good boxer KO a bum but not me. I told my sons that I do not want to waist my time with this type of boxing. Watching those 3 boxers box each other in the Olympic trials was exciting but this was not. That's what the WSB is, good boxers fighting each other!!! The problem with the WSB is people don't care about the city vs city set-up especially when most of the boxers are not even from the country let alone the city they represent.
The way pro boxing is set up today, a loss can really sidetrack a career. That's wrong! In the old days they fight for a title and 3-4 weeks later have a rematch. A lose or several losses did not mater if you were a good boxer. That's what the UFC is doing and it is working for them and could work for boxing if there was only one organization running things and they got rid of a third of the weight classes and there was only ONE world champion!

[Tarquin Tarpaulin IV]

Sadly the notion that we'll have a list of 12 unified champions doesn't sit well in a commercial world.

Thompson is a 38 bout honest career pro who most over here hadn't heard of, despite him having challenged for world honours. What makes you think that the APB idea of pitching fighters together in the early stages will make them well known later in their careers, particularly if they have a run of losses on their card? This isn't MMA! ;)

Commercial world???? What TV? They are part of the problem. Boxing is losing fans because some many fights that are on TV are crap fights for BS titles. I've been involved in boxing for over 35 years. I could not tell you who any of the champions are now mostly because I refuse to try and follow the ABC's with their way too many weight classes, way too many BS titles, BS rankings and that there are way too many ABC's! I am sure just about all people not involved in boxing don't know who any champions are either. There was a time before all of the ABC's came about and there was only 8 weight classes, that almost everybody, fans and non fans knew who the middleweight and heavyweight champ of the world was. A few years ago, I took my sons to a pro boxing show that featured 3 boxers that had boxed in the '08 US Olympic trials, Fernado Guerrero, Dominic Wade and Shawn Porter. They all KO'd a bum in the 1st round who probably could not win an amateur novice tournament. That's what's wrong with pro boxing. Maybe some people like that watching a very good boxer KO a bum but not me. I told my sons that I do not want to waist my time with this type of boxing. Watching those 3 boxers box each other in the Olympic trials was exciting but this was not. That's what the WSB is, good boxers fighting each other!!! The problem with the WSB is people don't care about the city vs city set-up especially when most of the boxers are not even from the country let alone the city they represent.
The way pro boxing is set up today, a loss can really sidetrack a career. That's wrong! In the old days they fight for a title and 3-4 weeks later have a rematch. A lose or several losses did not mater if you were a good boxer. That's what the UFC is doing and it is working for them and could work for boxing if there was only one organization running things and they got rid of a third of the weight classes and there was only ONE world champion!

So basically it's taken you 35 years to realise that good boxers KO bums in their first fights?
Take a look at the first few opponents of any name champion and with very few exceptions you will see a list of opponents that couldn't lace my boots, let alone those of the Haglers, Hearns, Tysons of this world.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not disagreeing with your ideals but to make out that poorly matched investments, from the punters point of view, is something new, just doesn't ring true.

Like you I couldn't name the current crop of champions, wouldn't put my house on whether it's Vlad or Vitali on the throne at the moment and know loads of people who couldn't name a modern era boxer and there are plenty of people to blame but lets not kid ourselves that competitive evenly matched fights as served up by the WSB will do anything to change that or that the APB will work before it commits commercial suicide.

Give anybody, be they Joe Public or a regular boxing fan the choice of the following DVD's and tell me which one you think they will take?

1. Mike Tysons 25 Greatest Knockouts against bums.
2. Riddick Bowes 25 greatest Points decisions against competent opponents.

That's simply how it is!

I spoke to a leading coach a few years back and suggested that a single title at each weight would be preferable. He went on to explain that boxings a business and that multiple titles allows for multiple champions who can therefore earn significantly more than they could otherwise have done.

For the record it is said that in the corridoors of power at AIBA a little demon that sits on Dr Wu's shoulder, backed by other key personnell, is whispering in his ear and saying 'it's a step too far, 'it could cost you the presidency of the IOC'. The end of the world could be nigh........