Tony Bellew to travel to Canada....

[lefty]

Seriously think Bellew is getting sold short on here.

He’s a clever boxer. And, as I have said, he might give it all “I like a tear up” (and he does) but he’s also a man acutely aware of what he needs to do to win…to minimise the others guy’s opportunities.

The rematch with Ovil…the fight with Miranda…

Yes, this is a step up…yes, Stevenson will be favourite…but, Tony can win this fight. All big punchers coming off sensational KOs get overrated. Stevenson is no different.

I couldn't agree more with you. I've seen nothing of Stevenson that suggests he's a better boxer than Bellew and people get carried away with the KO of Dawson. Most of the other boxers than Stevenson have knocked over are nothing more than journeymen. Ofcourse Stevenson's the favourite, but this is a winnable fight for Bomber.

Journeyman?! I wouldnt call the likes of Jesus Gonzalez and Don George journeyman! Are they top class? No but then neither is the likes of Bolonti and some of the chumps Bellew has been beating.

[lefty]

Bomber punches a lot harder than people think, as illustrated by his numerous stoppages at heavyweight during the amateurs. However, his timing has been very poor in the last couple of years. When he connects flush with good timing then he is capable of knocking most people out.

Bomber has a good chance of winning this fight via stoppage because he is technically superior than Stevenson and arguably has a better chin (and/or recovery). Bomber was never knocked down in the amateurs, not even by a heavyweight and we should not deem him to have a poor chin due to the knockdowns he has suffered as a pro. Stevenson is very raw but arguably punches harder (albeit not by a big margin).

Yeah but Bellew was also put on his backside by Ajisafe who doesnt punch anywhere near as hard as Stevenson does.

[lefty]

Watch this fight of Stevenson vs George ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdEymmwtNXM .... he boxed in a very controlled manner in this fight and showed that he can box smartly.

[mickey1975]

Don't forget the most important aspect of this fight. Tony is a Scouser. They are a different breed and much tougher than all other humans. Stevenson will probably be too intimidated at the thought of facing a real life Scouser to even try land one of his bombs...

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Don't forget the most important aspect of this fight. Tony is a Scouser. They are a different breed and much tougher than all other humans. Stevenson will probably be too intimidated at the thought of facing a real life Scouser to even try land one of his bombs...

[The Law]

Bomber punches a lot harder than people think, as illustrated by his numerous stoppages at heavyweight during the amateurs. However, his timing has been very poor in the last couple of years. When he connects flush with good timing then he is capable of knocking most people out.

Bomber has a good chance of winning this fight via stoppage because he is technically superior than Stevenson and arguably has a better chin (and/or recovery). Bomber was never knocked down in the amateurs, not even by a heavyweight and we should not deem him to have a poor chin due to the knockdowns he has suffered as a pro. Stevenson is very raw but arguably punches harder (albeit not by a big margin).

Yeah but Bellew was also put on his backside by Ajisafe who doesnt punch anywhere near as hard as Stevenson does.

Chuck Wepner knocked Muhammad Ali down and Wepner didn't punch anywhere near as hard as Foreman. Did Ali have a questionable chin? There are countless examples of this with countless different fighters. Anyone who has followed Bellew's career since the amateurs knows that he has a solid chin and even better recovery. Bomber has a huge heart. Getting knocked down is not an issue, it's how you recover, as Felix Trinidad illustrated numerous times throughout his career.

Bellew is a very live underdog in this fight and Stevenson's win against Dawson makes him look better than he is.

[lefty]

Bomber punches a lot harder than people think, as illustrated by his numerous stoppages at heavyweight during the amateurs. However, his timing has been very poor in the last couple of years. When he connects flush with good timing then he is capable of knocking most people out.

Bomber has a good chance of winning this fight via stoppage because he is technically superior than Stevenson and arguably has a better chin (and/or recovery). Bomber was never knocked down in the amateurs, not even by a heavyweight and we should not deem him to have a poor chin due to the knockdowns he has suffered as a pro. Stevenson is very raw but arguably punches harder (albeit not by a big margin).

Yeah but Bellew was also put on his backside by Ajisafe who doesnt punch anywhere near as hard as Stevenson does.

Chuck Wepner knocked Muhammad Ali down and Wepner didn't punch anywhere near as hard as Foreman. Did Ali have a questionable chin? There are countless examples of this with countless different fighters. Anyone who has followed Bellew's career since the amateurs knows that he has a solid chin and even better recovery. Bomber has a huge heart. Getting knocked down is not an issue, it's how you recover, as Felix Trinidad illustrated numerous times throughout his career.

Bellew is a very live underdog in this fight and Stevenson's win against Dawson makes him look better than he is.

I agree that Bellew does have decent shot in this fight. However people are also trying to make out that Bellew is better than he actually is in contrast to saying Stevenson is no good, etc.

[The Law]

Yeah but Bellew was also put on his backside by Ajisafe who doesnt punch anywhere near as hard as Stevenson does.

Chuck Wepner knocked Muhammad Ali down and Wepner didn't punch anywhere near as hard as Foreman. Did Ali have a questionable chin? There are countless examples of this with countless different fighters. Anyone who has followed Bellew's career since the amateurs knows that he has a solid chin and even better recovery. Bomber has a huge heart. Getting knocked down is not an issue, it's how you recover, as Felix Trinidad illustrated numerous times throughout his career.

Bellew is a very live underdog in this fight and Stevenson's win against Dawson makes him look better than he is.

I agree that Bellew does have decent shot in this fight. However people are also trying to make out that Bellew is better than he actually is in contrast to saying Stevenson is no good, etc.

I personally think Dawson would have beaten Bellew but I think Stevenson/Bellew is pretty much a 50/50 fight. I've seen Stevenson look horrible at times in previous fights, he is technically very raw.

[lefty]

Yeah but Bellew was also put on his backside by Ajisafe who doesnt punch anywhere near as hard as Stevenson does.

Chuck Wepner knocked Muhammad Ali down and Wepner didn't punch anywhere near as hard as Foreman. Did Ali have a questionable chin? There are countless examples of this with countless different fighters. Anyone who has followed Bellew's career since the amateurs knows that he has a solid chin and even better recovery. Bomber has a huge heart. Getting knocked down is not an issue, it's how you recover, as Felix Trinidad illustrated numerous times throughout his career.

Bellew is a very live underdog in this fight and Stevenson's win against Dawson makes him look better than he is.

I agree that Bellew does have decent shot in this fight. However people are also trying to make out that Bellew is better than he actually is in contrast to saying Stevenson is no good, etc.

I personally think Dawson would have beaten Bellew but I think Stevenson/Bellew is pretty much a 50/50 fight. I've seen Stevenson look horrible at times in previous fights, he is technically very raw.[/quote]

Stevenson has looked horrible at times I agree but I think since linking up with Steward *RIP* and now the other guys at the kronk, his boxing has improved quite a bit. Particularily his footwork.

[The Law]

I've not seen a huge improvement in Stevenson. In my opinion Bellew remains technically superior to Stevenson despite Bellew's own flaws. Stevenson arguably punches harder so their attributes pretty much even themselves out, hence why I see it as a 50/50 fight.

[lefty]

I've not seen a huge improvement in Stevenson. In my opinion Bellew remains technically superior to Stevenson despite Bellew's own flaws. Stevenson arguably punches harder so their attributes pretty much even themselves out, hence why I see it as a 50/50 fight.

If you look at Stevenson before he hooked up with Steward, he used to just plod forward throwing his big shots. Now he's a lot lighter on his feet and there's definietly more thought into what he does.

[WelshJack]

Don't forget the most important aspect of this fight. Tony is a Scouser. They are a different breed and much tougher than all other humans. Stevenson will probably be too intimidated at the thought of facing a real life Scouser to even try land one of his bombs...

Hopefully he doesn't follow David Price's breed.

[The Law]

I've not seen a huge improvement in Stevenson. In my opinion Bellew remains technically superior to Stevenson despite Bellew's own flaws. Stevenson arguably punches harder so their attributes pretty much even themselves out, hence why I see it as a 50/50 fight.

If you look at Stevenson before he hooked up with Steward, he used to just plod forward throwing his big shots. Now he's a lot lighter on his feet and there's definietly more thought into what he does.

There has been an improvement but not a huge one. He still looks raw and rather wild at times. I am still of the opinion that Bellew is a technically superior boxer and that's saying something because Bellew has quite a few flaws. When Bellew stays calm and doesn't brawl (such as the second fight against McKenzie) then he looks technically pretty good. Stevenson's superior power may save him but the same can be said for Bellew's power. Bellew has never been stopped and has shown excellent recovery/heart whereas Stevenson has not shown the same level of recovery. It will be an interesting 50/50 fight and I can't wait for it!

[lefty]

I've not seen a huge improvement in Stevenson. In my opinion Bellew remains technically superior to Stevenson despite Bellew's own flaws. Stevenson arguably punches harder so their attributes pretty much even themselves out, hence why I see it as a 50/50 fight.

If you look at Stevenson before he hooked up with Steward, he used to just plod forward throwing his big shots. Now he's a lot lighter on his feet and there's definietly more thought into what he does.

There has been an improvement but not a huge one. He still looks raw and rather wild at times. I am still of the opinion that Bellew is a technically superior boxer and that's saying something because Bellew has quite a few flaws. When Bellew stays calm and doesn't brawl (such as the second fight against McKenzie) then he looks technically pretty good. Stevenson's superior power may save him but the same can be said for Bellew's power. Bellew has never been stopped and has shown excellent recovery/heart whereas Stevenson has not shown the same level of recovery. It will be an interesting 50/50 fight and I can't wait for it!

Yeah it's a good fight. I dont argue with that

[Deserter]

Bomber punches a lot harder than people think, as illustrated by his numerous stoppages at heavyweight during the amateurs.

Don't forget that as an amateur he was a heavyweight and weighed 14 stone 4 pounds.

Also, he mostly boxed domestic opposition in what wasn't a great division talent-wise (I think he might have had a couple of international bouts, but don't think that he had much success ?).

As a pro he weighs in at 12 stone 7 (not sure of his weight on the night) - but, he is 10 years older and weighing in nearly 2 stone less !

His record as pro does not suggest a "puncher" at this level - maybe it is due to weight and he could be more powerful at cruiser ?

He did not have a long amateur career hence why he did not have an established international amateur career. I believe he had less than amateur 50 fights with a very high knockout record (with headguards at a higher weight). I think it's more about timing rather than power. I have carefully analysed his fights ringside and his timing has been very poor during the last 2/3 years, he rarely lands a clean power punch. I believe he is trying a bit too hard to go for the knockout and as a result is very tense which then leads to poor timing. If he stays relaxed and does not go for the knockout then his timing will improve. He is very heavy handed, no doubt about that.

But this is a completely flawed argument on so many levels. Firstly, you can't talk about power and timing being separate as they are inextricably linked - power and KO ability come from great timing - if he hasn't got great timing and is too tense etc, he doesn't have KO power. End of.
Whether it's his poor timing or something else, the end result is that Bellew is not a KO artist at this level - you think that could change if he improves his timing, but that's purely a hypothetical proposition akin to saying fighter x could be a champion if he had a better defence... it's meaningless supposition unless they can show in the ring they've made those adjustments.
The ring and results don't lie and in the same way that someone can look a million dollars in the gym but can't translate this into results on fight night, you have to judge an individual based on the reality of their form, rather than what you believe they could be.
Furthermore, referencing his amateur career is irrelevant; we all know countless examples of fighters who couldn't carry their amateur achievements through to the pro ranks. C'est la vie.

[The Law]

He did not have a long amateur career hence why he did not have an established international amateur career. I believe he had less than amateur 50 fights with a very high knockout record (with headguards at a higher weight). I think it's more about timing rather than power. I have carefully analysed his fights ringside and his timing has been very poor during the last 2/3 years, he rarely lands a clean power punch. I believe he is trying a bit too hard to go for the knockout and as a result is very tense which then leads to poor timing. If he stays relaxed and does not go for the knockout then his timing will improve. He is very heavy handed, no doubt about that.

But this is a completely flawed argument on so many levels. Firstly, you can't talk about power and timing being separate as they are inextricably linked - power and KO ability come from great timing - if he hasn't got great timing and is too tense etc, he doesn't have KO power. End of.
Whether it's his poor timing or something else, the end result is that Bellew is not a KO artist at this level - you think that could change if he improves his timing, but that's purely a hypothetical proposition akin to saying fighter x could be a champion if he had a better defence... it's meaningless supposition unless they can show in the ring they've made those adjustments.
The ring and results don't lie and in the same way that someone can look a million dollars in the gym but can't translate this into results on fight night, you have to judge an individual based on the reality of their form, rather than what you believe they could be.
Furthermore, referencing his amateur career is irrelevant; we all know countless examples of fighters who couldn't carry their amateur achievements through to the pro ranks. C'est la vie.

Well we will agree to disagree. Timing can be worked on and the improvement can have a massive impact on a fighter's knockout power. For example Junior Witter had around 4 stoppage wins in his first 18 fights. Then he improved his timing and won 15 fights in a row via stoppage, most of which were at a higher level (British, Commonwealth and EBU) than his earlier fights.

Bellew is very heavy handed and his current or past trainers/sparring partners will tell you that he is one of the hardest punchers they have ever worked with. He shown some of that power in his pro career but his timing has generally been very poor in the last 3 years. If he starts getting his timing right again then he could well improve his knockout percentage.

[Deserter]

Well we will agree to disagree. Timing can be worked on and the improvement can have a massive impact on a fighter's knockout power. For example Junior Witter had around 4 stoppage wins in his first 18 fights. Then he improved his timing and won 15 fights in a row via stoppage, most of which were at a higher level (British, Commonwealth and EBU) than his earlier fights.

Bellew is very heavy handed and his current or past trainers/sparring partners will tell you that he is one of the hardest punchers they have ever worked with. He shown some of that power in his pro career but his timing has generally been very poor in the last 3 years. If he starts getting his timing right again then he could well improve his knockout percentage.

Law, you're missing my point. Of course timing can be worked on, but the reality is that if we follow your argument it's been crap for three years (a long period in a pro's career), so he's got a lot of work to do to turn it round (if indeed he can) and then and only then can you start talking about him as possessing serious power, not beforehand.
Again, you're using trainers and sparring partners to try and support your point but it's irrelevant if he can't produce that form where it matters... in the ring. Paul Smith is another example of someone we've always been told is a murderous, heavy-handed puncher in training, but he hasn't been able to translate that gym reputation into the ring.
To say as you do earlier in the thread that "Stevenson arguably punches harder" is madness when you look at the hard evidence and take off the rose-tinted specs. One fighter is on a KO streak of eight, including taking out a world-class opponent in devastating fashion in his last fight, while the other has secured two stoppages in his last seven.
At this juncture it is absolutely unequivocal that Stevenson is the harder puncher of the two. If Bellew makes those changes, he may indeed improve his KO percentage, but right here, right now, to talk about Stevenson only arguably punching harder than Bellew is laughable and the stats alone make a mockery of it, let alone the highlight reels of their recent performances.

[The Law]

Well we will agree to disagree. Timing can be worked on and the improvement can have a massive impact on a fighter's knockout power. For example Junior Witter had around 4 stoppage wins in his first 18 fights. Then he improved his timing and won 15 fights in a row via stoppage, most of which were at a higher level (British, Commonwealth and EBU) than his earlier fights.

Bellew is very heavy handed and his current or past trainers/sparring partners will tell you that he is one of the hardest punchers they have ever worked with. He shown some of that power in his pro career but his timing has generally been very poor in the last 3 years. If he starts getting his timing right again then he could well improve his knockout percentage.

Law, you're missing my point. Of course timing can be worked on, but the reality is that if we follow your argument it's been crap for three years (a long period in a pro's career), so he's got a lot of work to do to turn it round (if indeed he can) and then and only then can you start talking about him as possessing serious power, not beforehand.
Again, you're using trainers and sparring partners to try and support your point but it's irrelevant if he can't produce that form where it matters... in the ring. Paul Smith is another example of someone we've always been told is a murderous, heavy-handed puncher in training, but he hasn't been able to translate that gym reputation into the ring.
To say as you do earlier in the thread that "Stevenson arguably punches harder" is madness when you look at the hard evidence and take off the rose-tinted specs. One fighter is on a KO streak of eight, including taking out a world-class opponent in devastating fashion in his last fight, while the other has secured two stoppages in his last seven.
At this juncture it is absolutely unequivocal that Stevenson is the harder puncher of the two. If Bellew makes those changes, he may indeed improve his KO percentage, but right here, right now, to talk about Stevenson only arguably punching harder than Bellew is laughable and the stats alone make a mockery of it, let alone the highlight reels of their recent performances.

Judging a fighter's punching power by merely looking at their KO streak is also a flawed method of analysing someone's punching power. It's not too dissimilar to judging who will beat who based on their performances against mutual opponents by looking at their records. Records can be deceptive (i.e. an 8 fight KO streak against come forward fighters with poor defence does not necessary illustrate greater punching power than a fighter with 4 KOs in 8 fights against some awkward fighters for example). I prefer to analyse a fighter's ability and punching power upon close inspection ringside over many years. From my analysis Bellew carries a lot of punching power and had excellent timing in the amateurs but has somewhat lost his way in the last 3 years purely due to his timing. He is simply not landing flush power punches, yes this could be because of him fighting opponents with a superior defence at a higher level as well as being over eager under the spotlight. However, he will not have this problem against Stevenson who does not have a good defence and neither is he elusive. Hence why I thought Dawson would have been far more difficult for Bellew at this stage. One of Bellew's other weaknesses is his handspeed which doesn't help his timing, his power punches were thrown at a greater speed in the amateurs and earlier in his pro career. I'm sure he can improve this as Witter and Ovill McKenzie have done during their careers, for example.

Comparing Paul Smith to Bellew is a poor example because Smigga was never a huge puncher in the amateurs or in the pros. Bellew was a huge puncher in the amateurs, sparring and also showed glimpses of his power in the pros. Once he calms down, stops being over eager for the KO and sits down on his punches then we could well see his power again .... He could go on a KO streak like Witter did in the middle of his career.

I will agree to disagree with you. I've seen enough of Bellew to determine the weight and power of his punches. Anyone can have a dry spell. You will not convince me otherwise. May the best man win on the night in this '50/50' fight

[Deserter]

Judging a fighter's punching power by merely looking at their KO streak is also a flawed method of analysing someone's punching power. It's not too dissimilar to judging who will beat who based on their performances against mutual opponents by looking at their records. Records can be deceptive (i.e. an 8 fight KO streak against come forward fighters with poor defence does not necessary illustrate greater punching power than a fighter with 4 KOs in 8 fights against some awkward fighters for example).

Which is exactly why I also made reference to footage and consequently didn't even need to resort to the type of anecdotal evidence you're trying to use to justify Bellew's power - sparring partners etc. Though it should be noted if you wanted to introduce this, then this type of evidence is even more compelling than Bellew's yet again. For example, John Scully was quoted in Boxing News as saying about Stevenson's power: "...something Manny Steward told me the last time we really sat down and talked one night in Atlantic City in 2012. The discussion turned to Adonis and Emanuel got so animated talking about him, he told me that he had never seen anything like it, even with Tommy Hearns."
Please bear in mind this is Steward talking to a fellow boxing insider casually rather than in a formal interview with the media, so the element of needing to 'hype' his fighter wasn't present.

One of Bellew's other weaknesses is his handspeed which doesn't help his timing, his power punches were thrown at a greater speed in the amateurs and earlier in his pro career. I'm sure he can improve this as Witter and Ovill McKenzie have done during their careers, for example..

Still the same fallacy - he may well be able to improve it, but earlier in the thread you clearly stated it was arguable about who is the bigger puncher, thus talking in the present tense, not the future tense. Again, you've chosen to make a direct comparison between two fighters so you have to judge Bellew's power on right here, right now, rather than what it would be if he made the adjustments you've identified.

Comparing Paul Smith to Bellew is a poor example because Smigga was never a huge puncher in the amateurs or in the pros.

It was a perfectly valid example because if you reread my point it was clearly in the context of illustrating that what happens in the gym doesn't necessarily translate to 'in the ring' performance, nothing more, nothing less. You chose to support your point by talking about how Bellew's sparring partners rated his power, so I used Smith as an example of where the same comments have been made but the outcome at fight time has been different. Another older example was how the then Brit prospect Tony Collins apparently used to look untouchable in sparring, but never fulfilled that promise in the ring. Do you not accept that there can be a disconnect between gym and ring performance that means any comments from sparring partners etc have to treated with a degree of caution/scepticism?

I've seen enough of Bellew to determine the weight and power of his punches. Anyone can have a dry spell. You will not convince me otherwise.

And there we have the essence of it. You're overwhelmingly focused on Bellew because of your proximity to him, and thus not paying equal attention to Stevenson, which means you're in no position to make a rational call. The fact you're saying that any argument won't convince you otherwise is proof of that inherent bias, hence the resort to describing Bellew's clear inability to a "dry spell", which is bordering on a surreal statement. I'm a huge Carl Froch fan, but even I wouldn't try and resort to claiming he's just experiencing a "dry spell" in terms of KOs at the moment, it's simply that he can't bang guys out at the top level in the way he used to be able to do at British/European level. No shame in that. By the same token, Bellew's had to add more to his game to compensate for the fact that he's not a KO artist at the level he's now fighting.

The bottom line is that if we were in a hypothetical world, where Stevenson was from Birmingham and Bellew was from Canada, and there was a Canadian poster on here trying to argue that Bellew was arguably as big a puncher as Stevenson, you'd be (rightly) laughing them out of the room.

This fight will be closer than some think (though certainly not a 50/50 in my eyes), but that won't be related to a power comparison, that will be down to Bellew's potential ability to box Stevenson and keep him at bay long enough to take him into the later rounds and deeper waters. If Tony opts to 'stand and bang', there's only going to be one outcome, but I don't think he'll be that foolish.

[lefty]

Judging a fighter's punching power by merely looking at their KO streak is also a flawed method of analysing someone's punching power. It's not too dissimilar to judging who will beat who based on their performances against mutual opponents by looking at their records. Records can be deceptive (i.e. an 8 fight KO streak against come forward fighters with poor defence does not necessary illustrate greater punching power than a fighter with 4 KOs in 8 fights against some awkward fighters for example).

Which is exactly why I also made reference to footage and consequently didn't even need to resort to the type of anecdotal evidence you're trying to use to justify Bellew's power - sparring partners etc. Though it should be noted if you wanted to introduce this, then this type of evidence is even more compelling than Bellew's yet again. For example, John Scully was quoted in Boxing News as saying about Stevenson's power: "...something Manny Steward told me the last time we really sat down and talked one night in Atlantic City in 2012. The discussion turned to Adonis and Emanuel got so animated talking about him, he told me that he had never seen anything like it, even with Tommy Hearns."
Please bear in mind this is Steward talking to a fellow boxing insider casually rather than in a formal interview with the media, so the element of needing to 'hype' his fighter wasn't present.

One of Bellew's other weaknesses is his handspeed which doesn't help his timing, his power punches were thrown at a greater speed in the amateurs and earlier in his pro career. I'm sure he can improve this as Witter and Ovill McKenzie have done during their careers, for example..

Still the same fallacy - he may well be able to improve it, but earlier in the thread you clearly stated it was arguable about who is the bigger puncher, thus talking in the present tense, not the future tense. Again, you've chosen to make a direct comparison between two fighters so you have to judge Bellew's power on right here, right now, rather than what it would be if he made the adjustments you've identified.

Comparing Paul Smith to Bellew is a poor example because Smigga was never a huge puncher in the amateurs or in the pros.

It was a perfectly valid example because if you reread my point it was clearly in the context of illustrating that what happens in the gym doesn't necessarily translate to 'in the ring' performance, nothing more, nothing less. You chose to support your point by talking about how Bellew's sparring partners rated his power, so I used Smith as an example of where the same comments have been made but the outcome at fight time has been different. Another older example was how the then Brit prospect Tony Collins apparently used to look untouchable in sparring, but never fulfilled that promise in the ring. Do you not accept that there can be a disconnect between gym and ring performance that means any comments from sparring partners etc have to treated with a degree of caution/scepticism?

I've seen enough of Bellew to determine the weight and power of his punches. Anyone can have a dry spell. You will not convince me otherwise.

And there we have the essence of it. You're overwhelmingly focused on Bellew because of your proximity to him, and thus not paying equal attention to Stevenson, which means you're in no position to make a rational call. The fact you're saying that any argument won't convince you otherwise is proof of that inherent bias, hence the resort to describing Bellew's clear inability to a "dry spell", which is bordering on a surreal statement. I'm a huge Carl Froch fan, but even I wouldn't try and resort to claiming he's just experiencing a "dry spell" in terms of KOs at the moment, it's simply that he can't bang guys out at the top level in the way he used to be able to do at British/European level. No shame in that. By the same token, Bellew's had to add more to his game to compensate for the fact that he's not a KO artist at the level he's now fighting.

The bottom line is that if we were in a hypothetical world, where Stevenson was from Birmingham and Bellew was from Canada, and there was a Canadian poster on here trying to argue that Bellew was arguably as big a puncher as Stevenson, you'd be (rightly) laughing them out of the room.

This fight will be closer than some think (though certainly not a 50/50 in my eyes), but that won't be related to a power comparison, that will be down to Bellew's potential ability to box Stevenson and keep him at bay long enough to take him into the later rounds and deeper waters. If Tony opts to 'stand and bang', there's only going to be one outcome, but I don't think he'll be that foolish.

Just going on anecdotal evidence aswell, there's been a lot of rumours that Stevenson knocks out full blown heavyweights in sparring aswell. I also remember reading how Don George said that after fighting Stevenson he was still in pain a month after the fight! Edwin Rodriguez the unbeaten super-middleweight prospect also said that when he fought Stevenson in the amateurs he got dropped with a body shot and he's never been hit harder than Stevenson hit him. That was including sparring and in the ring and he's sparred the likes of Froch and Kessler I think.

[TheCobra]

There are definitely a few people looking at this through rose-tinted glasses. Yes Stevenson is raw, but he still beat Dawson, a world-rated guy - Bellew has nothing like that on his record. So you can call Stevenson raw all you like - he still had the speed and timing to land BIG and early on a cagey guy like Dawson who will have gone in there with the exact same gameplan as Bellew - avoid those early bombs. Easier said than done if the guy throwing is any good - which Stevenson is at a certain level.

Bellew has been knocked down by Ajisafe and McKenzie had him in a world of trouble, McKenzie is also seen as being a bit crude and is only British level crude. I think Chilemba type people are Tony's level. I'm not saying he can't beat Stevenson, but a lot of pieces will have to fall in place for that to be realistic.

[Ezzard]

This has become a weird thread.

Don't think I've read anyone making Tony favourite here. Just that he has a realistic chance in this fight.

I don't think the fight will happen as I expect Cloud to beat Stevenson. And I think Cloud is much more difficult opponent for Tony.

[Deserter]

This has become a weird thread.

Don't think I've read anyone making Tony favourite here. Just that he has a realistic chance in this fight.

I hear you completely. I've just got a huge issue with anyone claiming that it's debatable about whether Stevenson is the bigger puncher of the two, as it's a ludicrous statement based on all the clear evidence.

[Ezzard]

Fair enough.

Ovil

to Miranda

to Stevenson

Adonis is the 3rd rung on the ladder...

[Coco]

It's a big step up for Bellew but no one should have a problem with a British fighter willing to fight the best out there away from home.