G0mez wrote:Eubank talks and dresses like something out of Punch & Judy show.
It's almost like you can see a ventriloquist taking little Chris out of his box, and his head spins around with his monocle on, with his little jodhpurs and riding boots.
You struggle to understand the concept of a professional obligation. Hagler disrespected the historic WBA, was already a multi-millionaire and Leonard was a bigger underdog even than Graham would've been. Same situation with Roy Jones-Nunn and Steve Collins-Calzaghe. See a pattern? I do. The pattern is ultra-talented, awkward southpaw
Similar with Benn-Nunn as well. Michael being made mandatory contender in late '94 and Don King somehow able to un-mandatory him (when Benn said he wouldn't fight him) to make McClellan mandatory. Fair play to Benn for tackling McClellan, but it did take some coaxing and teasing. Benn was looking at Eubank (III) and Toney for more money before retiring...
And it was the Kalule fight that made people believe Herol could maybe shut out anyone. Kaylor was just a defence to keep the British title. The Lindell Holmes fight was the one that catapulted him, with Lindell hoping to fight Hagler. And he out-tricked ultra-tricky Sanderline Williams - the guy who actually looked like he BEAT Iran Barkley, Frank Tate, Essett, Sosa, BENN, TONEY, MCCLELLAN! SW was out-foxing Holmes like Herol was before flat-footed banger Lindell caught him. The only other guys who did good with SW other than Bomber was tall, rangey switch-hitting, heavy-handed southpaw 'Dangerous' Don Lee (himself a former world #1) and southpaw mover Reggie Johnson who was as slick as a greaseball back then.
Did Hagler and Collins not give up their World Championship titles when Graham and Calzaghe were the mandates/next opponents? Yes. No nonsense unprofessional excuses.
I have no idea what you're referring to regarding Ambrose and Nigel?
Collins made no mention of any court date, instead citing a lack of motivation and crying over it, knowing he may have probably lost to Calzaghe - as Hagler would've to Graham and Jones would've to Nunn.
Not what true warriors are made of.
There was one fighter who never backed out against the Grahams (gym), Nelsons (gym), Stretchs, Rocchigianis, Schommers and Calzaghes of this world. His name? Chris L. Eubank Sr. from Brighton via Peckham and the Bronx.
coghaugen11 wrote:There was one fighter who never backed out against the Grahams (gym), Nelsons (gym), Stretchs, Rocchigianis, Schommers and Calzaghes of this world. His name? Chris L. Eubank Sr. from Brighton via Peckham and the Bronx.
Damn, that is an incredible roll call of boxing legends. Poor old Roy Jones Jr can only muster the likes of Hopkins, Toney, McCallum, Hill and Ruiz on his ledger - if only he'd been brave enough to face the Schommers and Stretchs of this world...
.... and thank god he managed to avoid Kalambay, as he'd have been slipped and countered all night long by the all-time great!
Benn was my favourite fighter growing up, I always find it quite sad how he's gone from a wild, Porsche-driving, Harley-riding, womanising playboy to a bible bashing bore.
coghaugen11 wrote:
.... and thank god he managed to avoid Kalambay, as he'd have been slipped and countered all night long by the all-time great!
'all-time great' is subjective, mythical nonsense, unless Deserter has a magical time machine or something.
Anyway, Kalambay clearly slipped and countered better than any fighter in history, so if anyone was slipping and countering brawler Jones all night long, it was surely Sumbu.
Jones wouldn't have beaten Toney at his best. Let's not forget Toney was weighing 242lbs just 3-4wks before the Jones fight and they were keeping him alive on a drip in hospital after the weigh-in.
McCallum was about 45 or whatever, and was at his best in the early 80s, not the late 90s
And Hopkins was garbage back then, looking shit against Baptist (who McClellan blew away) and being punched through the ropes a few times against the poor Mercardo.
Hopkins at any point > Stretch.
McCallum at any point > Schommer.
My point, that you've clearly failed to grasp as you're so insanely biased towards Eubank is that the names you are referencing to support your mythical image of Eubank as a fighter who fought all-comers is laughable to the point of looking like a deliberately comedic post.
The fact you were even having to talk about 'gym' fights is the ultimate sign of straw clutching.
Finally, the irony of you failing to grasp my sarcasm with reference to all-time great, only to then go on to talk about Kalambay doing something better than any fighter in history won't be lost on anyone reading this as well.
It's like trying to debate with the Alan Partridge of the boxing world....
JimJim2009 wrote:I'm still mad about how the big opportunities didn't go Herol's way when he was in his prime. I'll get laughed off the forum for claiming he'd have outpointed Hagler in 86/87 but I'd have put money on it. I need to get over it I think, it was over 25 years ago....
I just don't see why the man evokes so much sympathy. he had three world title shots, that's some decent opportunity right there.
For years ive heard people say 'he would have done this he would have done that' but when his times came, he didn't, simple. he was a nearly man. yes, he was in with some good names during these opportunities but at the end of the day u either do it or you don't. And this isn't a personal attack on him.
I know he was ultra talented, but I think people really go overboard on how hard done by saint herol was. Its almost cult-like.
JimJim2009 wrote:I'm still mad about how the big opportunities didn't go Herol's way when he was in his prime. I'll get laughed off the forum for claiming he'd have outpointed Hagler in 86/87 but I'd have put money on it. I need to get over it I think, it was over 25 years ago....
I just don't see why the man evokes so much sympathy. he had three world title shots, that's some decent opportunity right there.
For years ive heard people say 'he would have done this he would have done that' but when his times came, he didn't, simple. he was a nearly man. yes, he was in with some good names during these opportunities but at the end of the day u either do it or you don't. And this isn't a personal attack on him.
I know he was ultra talented, but I think people really go overboard on how hard done by saint herol was. Its almost cult-like.
Deserter wrote:Hopkins at any point > Stretch.
McCallum at any point > Schommer.
My point, that you've clearly failed to grasp as you're so insanely biased towards Eubank is that the names you are referencing to support your mythical image of Eubank as a fighter who fought all-comers is laughable to the point of looking like a deliberately comedic post.
The fact you were even having to talk about 'gym' fights is the ultimate sign of straw clutching.
Finally, the irony of you failing to grasp my sarcasm with reference to all-time great, only to then go on to talk about Kalambay doing something better than any fighter in history won't be lost on anyone reading this as well.
It's like trying to debate with the Alan Partridge of the boxing world....
You failed to grasp my lack of seriousosity with the post you refer to, which I find quite amusing
Deserter wrote:Hopkins at any point > Stretch.
McCallum at any point > Schommer.
My point, that you've clearly failed to grasp as you're so insanely biased towards Eubank is that the names you are referencing to support your mythical image of Eubank as a fighter who fought all-comers is laughable to the point of looking like a deliberately comedic post.
The fact you were even having to talk about 'gym' fights is the ultimate sign of straw clutching.
Finally, the irony of you failing to grasp my sarcasm with reference to all-time great, only to then go on to talk about Kalambay doing something better than any fighter in history won't be lost on anyone reading this as well.
It's like trying to debate with the Alan Partridge of the boxing world....
You failed to grasp my lack of seriousosity with the post you refer to, which I find quite amusing
So you're now even inventing words in a bid to justify your trolling? At first it was funny, now it's just pitiful...
Hi guys, late to this thread, please tell me no one is seriously arguing Chris Eubank took on all comers?
Those there at the time will recall it was the exact opposite, he avoided all comers but then defended against their sparring partners, invariably escaping with a dodgy decision.
Hard hard man but wanted nothing to do with the top Americans.
JimJim2009 wrote:I'm still mad about how the big opportunities didn't go Herol's way when he was in his prime. I'll get laughed off the forum for claiming he'd have outpointed Hagler in 86/87 but I'd have put money on it. I need to get over it I think, it was over 25 years ago....
I just don't see why the man evokes so much sympathy. he had three world title shots, that's some decent opportunity right there.
For years ive heard people say 'he would have done this he would have done that' but when his times came, he didn't, simple. he was a nearly man. yes, he was in with some good names during these opportunities but at the end of the day u either do it or you don't. And this isn't a personal attack on him.
I know he was ultra talented, but I think people really go overboard on how hard done by saint herol was. Its almost cult-like.
Hagler officially ducked him. And he should've got the nod against McCallum.
But the Julian thing was his big chance and his own fault, running into a right hook from one of the hardest hitters ever. The difference between Herol and someone like Chris Eubank was that Chris took his chance with both hands when stopping Benn; tight, two-handed combination with his chin down, whereas Herol left himself wider open than the sky. That's the line between contender and champion, good and great, etc.
loaded_gloves wrote:Hi guys, late to this thread, please tell me no one is seriously arguing Chris Eubank took on all comers?
Those there at the time will recall it was the exact opposite, he avoided all comers but then defended against their sparring partners, invariably escaping with a dodgy decision.
Hard hard man but wanted nothing to do with the top Americans.
He took on the tricky comers that the top Americans didn't want to take on - like Essett, Lindell and Schommer - in genuine actuality.
Why didn't Eubank go one better and fight the top Americans, who were all fighting each other but, according to you, unwilling to fight men who couldn't get past Van Horn and Mauro Galvano?
Holmes/Van Horn - Body shot/exhaustion BS count in a fight he was dominating for six rounds.
Essett clearly beat Galvano.
BILLY GUTZ of Detroit was not happy as he perched in the coffee shop of a modest West London hotel that sits in the shadow of a far taller and far more expensive hostelry. But neither was he complaining.
It was not that the food was, in his opinion, 'blah'. It was not that the sparring that he says had been promised for Lindell Holmes, the 35-year-old 12st fighter from Toledo, whom he manages, had not materialised. It was not even that Holmes is expected to be handily beaten by Chris Eubank of Brighton in their fight for a verion of the world middleweight title at Olympia tonight, and probably will be, for a purse of pounds 12,500 compared to Eubank's estimated pounds 400,000.
Gutz also had to sign away three promotional options on Holmes's services to Eubank's promoter, Barry Hearn. But it's not those either. 'I'm grateful,' he said unhappily. No, it was a more general and philosophical unhappiness aimed at the tide of time that boxing managers throughout history have observed engulfing their King Canutes-in-gloves. 'If this were five years ago you could bet your house,' Gutz said, the aural incarnation of a 60-year-old Joe Pesci. 'Five years ago Lindell would've bleeping killed this kid. The only thing now is getting them off - he's got the guns but sometimes you get to a certain age and lose that split second.'
The diminutions in prestige, dollars and comfort that accompany the manager of a challenger to a champion's backyard: those Gutz can take. 'Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, bleep. I been through all this before, I don't expect nobody to do me no favours. We're not in a position to put up a big bleeping squark.'
The stern flicker of qualification crossed Gutz's face. 'Only, if we beat Eubank - and you can print this - when we come back I'm staying next door, huh? And I'm having my own driver. It'll be a little bit different. Little things, you know. But that's boxing. Feast or famine. Always has been. And, hey, we got everthing to gain and nothing to lose. If we lose, so bleeping what. He becomes an opponent and we fight somebody else. And I'd rather be fighting somebody else than this kid Eubank because this kid is a stinker. He don't get in range. And if Lindell does get beat it'll be because he's that half bleeping second behind.'
Indeed, it is time alone that really grates Gutz, that is the undertow beneath a swirl of names that bubble out; the names of fighters and managers and promoters who have avoided Lindell Holmes since he turned pro in 1979 and became a fearsomely equipped but unrecognised middleweight.
'Michael Nunn has pulled out of four fights with us. Now Nunn is with Angelo Dundee. When Don King's people called Angelo and said you're fighting Lindell Holmes, Angelo said, 'Why don't you fight Lindell Holmes.' Duran wouldn't fight us, Leonard wouldn't fight us. Hearns won't go in the same building as us because when he was at the Kronk Lindell was beating the bleep out of him every day. They don't give you a shot at the world title unless they think they can beat you. Lindell used to get in his car, drive 60 miles from Toledo to Detroit, beat the bleep out of Mickey Goodwin, Caveman Lee and Tommy Hearns, then get in his car and drive home.
'We've always had to travel. We've always been the opponent. But I'm not complaining. After we beat the bleep out of Lottie Mwale in Dusseldorf we went to this big party. Beautiful party. Everybody had Mercedes and Rolexes and there was wine and beer and these guys smoking these big hashish cigars. Incidentally, that was the first time Lindell got drunk.'
Gutz told an interesting story about a monkey, a lady and a room full of mobsters in Philadelphia in 1954. Gutz was there because he was partners with 'Sam', who got him into boxing. Gutz held the manager's licence because Sam was barred because of his criminal record. 'Sam was the guy accused of shooting William Buckley, the journalist, in the Hotel Detroita. A couple of guys walked in and boom, boom, boom. Sam was the guy they got for it but after about seven months he was found innocent because no one would testify.'
Gutz has many tales from those days when boxing in the United States, thanks to the patronage of the wealthy philanthropist, James J Norris, who had a fascination with gangsters, was virtually run by the Mob in the form of 'The Grey Man', Frankie Carbo, and his sidekick, Blinky Palermo.
These included being investigated for conspiracy to fix an athletic event. After that Gutz decided to manage one fighter at a time. This enabled him to delve deep into each signing's psychological make-up. They were all good fighters, but all, according to Gutz, had their own problems.
Holmes's, he says, are an attraction to the opposite sex and increasing scepticism and worry about his chances just before fights. Undeterred, Gutz has devised a plan for Eubank tonight. Holmes will throw right hands to Eubank's stomach and heart. That morning Holmes had been aiming rights at the mid-portion of the heavy bag. Gutz enthused: 'If he hits him like he was hitting the heavy bag today, it should be goodnight.' Unfortunately a sweating Holmes was sceptical. 'I don't know,' he said. 'One thing about Eubank is he carries his hands in a position where he blocks a lot of shots. And he takes a good shot. And another thing I'm worried about is he has his trunks pulled too high. They could take points away from me.'
When Holmes joined us in the coffee bar Gutz bore up stoically to Time. 'You can fight as long as you want to,' he told Lindell Holmes. 'You're Archie Moore] You're Charlie Burley]'
Holmes was not convinced. 'I'm not going to bet on this fight,' he said. 'I'm worried about the judges.'
loaded_gloves wrote:Lindell Holmes who was KOd by Darrin Van Horn?
Why didn't Eubank go one better and fight the top Americans, who were all fighting each other but, according to you, unwilling to fight men who couldn't get past Van Horn and Mauro Galvano?
The people you encounter on these forums...
Mate, there is simply no point trying to rationalise with him. I'm starting to suspect it's Eubank himself posting
