Ali (1961) vs Leon (1978)

[Thomas Hearns 1958]

They both had 8 fights. Ali was 19 Spinks 24, so of course Spinks has an age advantage here, but how do you see the fight going?

I see Spinks winning a UD.

Also can you name a HW that put up such a good show in their 8th fight? I can't!

But that was that, for Leon... People say Ali was better in the rematch... I don't think so. He looked in better shape, but if anything he was worse, it was LS that never repeated that performance of the 1st fight ever again.

With the money he banked for the rematch he partied like a rock star, and was never as dedicated. I can only imagine how good he could've been if he dedicated himself.

[loaded_gloves]

Clay UD, relative ease.

[yancey]

Clay UD, relative ease.

This is probably the outcome.

[Thomas Hearns 1958]

Clay UD, relative ease.

This is probably the outcome.

I'd bet good money otherwise.

I think a lot of people underestimate the boxing skills of LS in that 1st fight.

[hhaehre]

Clay UD, relative ease.

Clay UD but not so easy.

[SteveO]

I would say Ali on points.
Leon fought magnificently in the first fight and only just got the decision over a seriously out of condition champion (In fact judge Art Laurie scored the contest 8-7 to Ali) I imagine Ali thought a 7 fight novice would be a pushover and therefore didn't train properly beforehand.
In the rematch a better trained (but way past his prime) Ali gave Spinks a boxing lesson scoring a 11-4-0, 10-4-1, 10-4-1 victory.

[Thomas Hearns 1958]

Leon Spinks {1978}

Very fast, very strong, and 'focused'.

Leon would have been welded to a 'skinny' {1961} Cassius.

I know people will disagree... But if you took Ali from 61 vs Ali from the 1st Spinks fight over 15 rounds I'd see it as a 50/50 but I'd give the nod to the 78 version. So pick the bones outta that.

In fact Ali from the 1st Spinks fight was the last half decent performance Ali put up, after that he was gone.

[loaded_gloves]

Monstreal Super, why are you posting under a different name? Christ, it's the exact same act but the obsession switched from Hearns to Leon Spinks. And still you use Tommy for a new handle!

[HomicideHenry]

Had it been the Ali of 1964-1967, Leon would have been out on his back inside of three rounds.

1961 version of Ali, embarasses Spinks. Probably TKO's him in the middle to late rounds.

[dempseyfire]

Leon Spinks {1978}

Very fast, very strong, and 'focused'.

Leon would have been welded to a 'skinny' {1961} Cassius.

I know people will disagree... But if you took Ali from 61 vs Ali from the 1st Spinks fight over 15 rounds I'd see it as a 50/50 but I'd give the nod to the 78 version. So pick the bones outta that.

In fact Ali from the 1st Spinks fight was the last half decent performance Ali put up, after that he was gone.

I'll take a young fit 19 year old former Olympic Champion over a slurred speech, beginning to suffer from Parkinsons 36 year old man any day of the week . . .

[Thomas Hearns 1958]

Leon Spinks {1978}

Very fast, very strong, and 'focused'.

Leon would have been welded to a 'skinny' {1961} Cassius.

I know people will disagree... But if you took Ali from 61 vs Ali from the 1st Spinks fight over 15 rounds I'd see it as a 50/50 but I'd give the nod to the 78 version. So pick the bones outta that.

In fact Ali from the 1st Spinks fight was the last half decent performance Ali put up, after that he was gone.

I'll take a young fit 19 year old former Olympic Champion over a slurred speech, beginning to suffer from Parkinsons 36 year old man any day of the week . . .

Ali was a world champ in 1978 and very likely the 3rd best HW in the world at the time coming into the Spinks fight. The 1961 Ali was a novice, and personally I think he'd come off 2nd best to either Ali 1978 or a young fit 24 year old former Olympic Champion. And don't forget it was a 15 round fight which is a big ask for a novice. But somehow LS done the business.

However your opinion is fair comment.

[SamWise72]

I can see that 61 Ali MIGHT come of worse to 78 Ali, who had a huge amount of experience to draw on. To a 78 Spinks, however, I don't see it; HOW will Spinks beat him? Do we think he hits hard enough to stop early Ali? Do we think he's going to outwork a man that fast? Neon Leon was quick, but early Ali was quicker. Is he going to stay welded to a man who can move that way?

[HomicideHenry]

I can see that 61 Ali MIGHT come of worse to 78 Ali, who had a huge amount of experience to draw on. To a 78 Spinks, however, I don't see it; HOW will Spinks beat him? Do we think he hits hard enough to stop early Ali? Do we think he's going to outwork a man that fast? Neon Leon was quick, but early Ali was quicker. Is he going to stay welded to a man who can move that way?

I think the only argument one could make is that in eight fights Leon certainly fought the overall better competition than 8-0 Ali did. Spinks drew LeDoux and decisioned Alfio Righetti and then decisioned the old Ali. Ali at that time hadn't really defeated anyone when he was 8-0, and looked weak chinned against some. That would be his only chance, is that Spinks was rushed into glory, while Ali was still in the learning curve.

[SamWise72]

The question is still how, though. Even if he looked fragile, Leon was never exactly a booming puncher.

[loaded_gloves]

Cooper and Banks could hit and Clay got up and beat them up. I love Leon but I think he'll be swinging at air here, as brilliant as he was that night against a fat and fading but still very good Muhammad Ali.

[SamWise72]

Even if he could land, there's nothing in Spinks' resume to suggest he has the clout. His career high KO was Alfredo Evangelista.

[loaded_gloves]

Mussolini, your mad Clay ravings seem to be pathological and you have no credibility in this sort of discussion.

Still, your teenage infantile trolling is getting you a lot of attention, old man.

[BoxBuzz]

Mussolini, your mad Clay ravings seem to be pathological and you have no credibility in this sort of discussion.

Still, your teenage infantile trolling is getting you a lot of attention, old man.

Gloves.

Ok...when it comes to Ali, I would agree with ME he has little credibility. That would go for many others I'm sure. But in many other discussions I have found myself in agreement with Duce. I don't seem him as infantile, or trolling. Just highly opinionated, in what can be controversial territory when discussing a, for the most part, popular, historic fighter.

Duce, you do seem to offer up some objective/disinterested valid info on many topics....but my guess is even you would admit that on this one, your a bit passionate and others would classify you as radically bias.

[yancey]

Mussolini, your mad Clay ravings seem to be pathological and you have no credibility in this sort of discussion.

Still, your teenage infantile trolling is getting you a lot of attention, old man.

Gloves.

Ok...when it comes to Ali, I would agree with ME he has little credibility. That would go for many others I'm sure. But in many other discussions I have found myself in agreement with Duce. I don't seem him as infantile, or trolling. Just highly opinionated, in what can be controversial territory when discussing a, for the most part, popular, historic fighter.

Duce, you do seem to offer up some objective/disinterested valid info on many topics....but my guess is even you would admit that on this one, your a bit passionate and others would classify you as radically bias.

Or maybe he is a good judge of character.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Be it positive or negative, nobody can ever come in the vicinity of Alp in Ali bias. He's the GOAT.

[BoxBuzz]

Sounds like they would hate Pernell Whitaker too.

Not a single judge saw that fight for Alonzo

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I've never heard of any controversy in that fight, then again; I've never seen a fight where you could accuse Whitaker of running.