Refs letting guys continue..... (Clev fight spoiler)

[jameswilson]

OK. Stu Jones mentioned something which I think is worthy of it's own thread.

O'Connor clearly looking at the replay to me seemed to be waving the fight off at the end of the 3rd then hears the bell and suddenly changes the motion with his hands. Clev was clearly frigged in the corner, and I know it's a hard thing to do but it's an important call, so he could have and maybe should have been pulled out.

It reminds me a little bit of Luan Krasniqui v Lamon Brewster. Krasniqui got knocked down in this fight and the ref gets to 8 and suddenly just stops counting and holds his hands out as Kras staggers to his feet taking more than 2 seconds to do so. A round or so later he gets absolutely pancaked, and after this fight didn't look the same at all.

What are peoples thoughts? I honestly am getting sick of the disparity between some of the stoppages we see from refs dependant on whether it's the home fighter or not.

[SNG]

Mistakes happen, but mistakes happen too often with O'connor.

It reminded me slightly of the Froch-Bute fight, wherein the ref appeared to wave it off and then change his mind.

[ShadrachSimmo]

He waved the fight off but bottled it after realising the round ended.

Fuckin useless prick.

[jameswilson]

Mistakes happen, but mistakes happen too often with O'connor.

It reminded me slightly of the Froch-Bute fight, wherein the ref appeared to wave it off and then change his mind.

This is why the bodies need to enforce it a bit harder that a neutral referee should be refereeing World title fights. In that fight you mentioned you don't immediately point the finger at anyone because you can just say 'well the ref was neutral and hadn't reffed on that promoters show before.'

[n1ebf]

He waved the fight off but bottled it after realising the round ended.

Fuckin useless prick.

yep. Stick with the original decision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this isn't like being a sub on a Sunday morning football park and getting a flag shoved in your hand to run the line.

"Professional", experienced referee with the health and safety of fighters CRUCIAL.

UTTER JOKE! and I haven't even seen it. Just trawled through 12 pages and various threads. Don't need to have seen it.

[Clint Magnum]

If they stop it too early....sack them.
If they stop it too late....sack them.
If they try to use discretion...sack them.

[forcefraser]

Nonsense. He used discretion which is clearly stated in the rules. Clev was world champ, the round ended as he was about to step in and end the fight so he gave him the chance to recover.
I guarantee if he'd stopped it at that point then half you morons would be crying he should be sacked off as he stopped it too early.

Is carrying the home fighter back to his corner allowed?

[Clint Magnum]

Nonsense. He used discretion which is clearly stated in the rules. Clev was world champ, the round ended as he was about to step in and end the fight so he gave him the chance to recover.
I guarantee if he'd stopped it at that point then half you morons would be crying he should be sacked off as he stopped it too early.

Is carrying the home fighter back to his corner allowed?

He didn't carry him back. He stepped in and seperated them. In my opinion he was going to stop Cleverly.
But the bell rang at the same time so he walked him back to the corner. Ref's discretion. Had he stopped it then most posters would cry about too early a stoppage as Clev wasn't taking any count.
Clev was wobbled badly. But he was never off his feet and certainly wasn't carried.

[forcefraser]

If he was nlt carried he was certainly supported back to his corner. If Kovalev was in that state then the fight would have been stopped. Utter farce.

[Clint Magnum]

If he was nlt carried he was certainly supported back to his corner. If Kovalev was in that state then the fight would have been stopped. Utter farce.

What's wrong with being supported back to the corner? It happens regularly, around the world, when a fighter is in trouble and the ref jumps in as the bell has ended.
And you are simply guessing if you state the ref wouldn't do it for Kovalev.
The ref contributed to a cracking fight. nobody was hurt, both fighters had a fair crack and Clev can have no complaints.

[earsjohn]

If he was nlt carried he was certainly supported back to his corner. If Kovalev was in that state then the fight would have been stopped. Utter farce.

What's wrong with being supported back to the corner? It happens regularly, around the world, when a fighter is in trouble and the ref jumps in as the bell has ended.
And you are simply guessing if you state the ref wouldn't do it for Kovalev.
The ref contributed to a cracking fight. nobody was hurt, both fighters had a fair crack and Clev can have no complaints.

I'm not so sure - Clev had no chance going into the 4th and it was simply a matter of time until the fight was ended. All the damage had been done in Round 3. The ref was given an excuse to let the fight continue with the bell sounding as he was in the process of ending it. No great controversy there - It takes the requirement to make a decision away from the ref and gives the troubled fighter a minute to recover.

Why on earth Cleverlys corner let him go out again though is more of an issue. Look at his face - the fight was over. Cleverly had been destroyed and was clearly in no position to carry on. Why didn't his corner recognise that and act accordingly for the sake of their fighter and his health? Was a doctor used between rounds to confirm that it was safe to continue (it was unclear from the coverage - I am not suggesting that anything was lacking)?

[earsjohn]

@Clint Magnum, people just want to see consistency, mate. That and they like having a groan. Compare the way an away fighter was dealt with the other week against Chisora, to how a home fighter was dealt with last night. Neither way is wrong providing it's the only way.

If the Chisora-Scott count had been used in the Barker-Geale fight, we'd be looking at a different result in that fight (without giving everything away for those yet to watch it)

[Bard of Boxrec]

Why on earth Cleverlys corner let him go out again though is more of an issue. Look at his face - the fight was over. Cleverly had been destroyed and was clearly in no position to carry on. Why didn't his corner recognise that and act accordingly for the sake of their fighter and his health? Was a doctor used between rounds to confirm that it was safe to continue (it was unclear from the coverage - I am not suggesting that anything was lacking)?

Yeah, his corner just ignore the fact he is out of it and are giving him advice as if he's just boxing lazy and needs to up the workrate or something and not dead on his stool. It's really horrible to watch.

[Clint Magnum]

@Clint Magnum, people just want to see consistency, mate. That and they like having a groan. Compare the way an away fighter was dealt with the other week against Chisora, to how a home fighter was dealt with last night. Neither way is wrong providing it's the only way.

Got to agree there. The Scott stoppage was way too early and ruined what was bubbling into a good fight.

[sharpei_louis]

Problem is the amount of complaints the ref would get to wave it off after the bell for the round had rung - 'we've paid x amount for a ticket and he had a full minute to see if he could continue'.... Every fighter in the world would want the minute to at least see if they recover. I know that's not strictly the rule, that it's a theoretical test of whether they could continue at that point, not whether they actually needed to - but given that he did have the minute most would complain at a stoppage after the bell.
The difficulty comes when his corner have had a minute with him, not pulled him out, and the ref then has to make the decision to let him back out for the 4th.... can't really stop it then can you?
Dunno. I can see the argument on both sides. I think bottom line is the corner should have pulled him out and the ref can say he was going to anyway.

[Kilburn]

In so many cases the line between a "good" or "bad" refereeing decision is terribly fine when it comes to stopping a fight.

Too many people seem to ignore that fact.

[greg]

He didn't carry him back. He stepped in and seperated them. In my opinion he was going to stop Cleverly.
But the bell rang at the same time so he walked him back to the corner. Ref's discretion. Had he stopped it then most posters would cry about too early a stoppage as Clev wasn't taking any count.
Clev was wobbled badly. But he was never off his feet and certainly wasn't carried.

--- just to remind what happened:

[lillywhite14]

I thought O'Connor ballsed it up.

Also, Clev was put at risk by his corner as well as the ref by being sent out for the 4th.

Shabby from them to say the least.

[Clint Magnum]

Problem is the amount of complaints the ref would get to wave it off after the bell for the round had rung - 'we've paid x amount for a ticket and he had a full minute to see if he could continue'.... Every fighter in the world would want the minute to at least see if they recover. I know that's not strictly the rule, that it's a theoretical test of whether they could continue at that point, not whether they actually needed to - but given that he did have the minute most would complain at a stoppage after the bell.
The difficulty comes when his corner have had a minute with him, not pulled him out, and the ref then has to make the decision to let him back out for the 4th.... can't really stop it then can you?
Dunno. I can see the argument on both sides. I think bottom line is the corner should have pulled him out and the ref can say he was going to anyway.

Well put. The decision to give Cleverley the minute rest to recover as the round had ended is the refs in the rules of discretion, & the right decision in my opinion. Round had ended and Clev had chance to recover. Now neither Clev nor his supporters/promoter can say it was premature by ref.
IF anyone was at fault it was his corner, although to be fair they had never seen Clev in that deeper water before and weren't to know he couldn't recover in the minute rest. He was nodding to them & listening and eager. The reality came when he walked to the centre of the ring to start the fourth, you could see his legs weren't coming back.

[WelshJack]

Clev's corner should never have sent him back out, just lucky that he didn't get seriously hurt.

[lillywhite14]

Clev looked goosed in between the 3rd and 4th. He was vacant to begin ith then started nodding and talking but that seemed unnecessary bravado brought on by his corner trying to pump him up.

The corner aren't there to cheerlead, they are there for his safety. He should have been pulled out before the 4th IMO.

[gobbles]

I can't believe anyone would think it is OK for a referee to carry a guy back to his corner. If he is not able to fight, the fight gets stopped. End of round or not. And if he can't walk back to the corner on his own, the referee should not be helping him

[greg]

I can't believe anyone would think it is OK for a referee to carry a guy back to his corner. If he is not able to fight, the fight gets stopped. End of round or not. And if he can't walk back to the corner on his own, the referee should not be helping him

...absolutely, and what makes it even worse for those of us watching boxing from outside Britain is that these and similar things tend to happen more often than not when a local boxer is involved...

[plymouthskinhead]

Haven't we heard of a ref giving a boxer in a WORLD title fight the benefit of the doubt in such a situation? 'Course we have. I think Terry O'Connor comes in for some due criticism at times but if he'd have stopped that there and then, which he was about to, then he'd have come in for pelters again.

Remember Clev had a minute to sort himself out and his corner are the ones who are qualified to say whether their man was good to go. Having said that I wouldn't have let him go. Benefit of hindsight and all that.

[Dixonian]

The problem is the referee was stepping in before the bell sounded for the end of the round.