Dixonian wrote:The problem is the referee was stepping in before the bell sounded for the end of the round.
What problem? The right fighter won. The loser was never left to take a sustained beating. The fight was decided decisively.
The ref stepped in (it looked probably to stop the fight) but as he was doing that the bell rang to end the round so he gave the fighter a chance to recover during the minute rest. It's called common sense and under the rules "Referee discretion". He didn't save Clev from any punishment as the round had ended and he stopped Clev within seconds of the next round when he realised he couldn't shake the punches off.
Dixonian wrote:The problem is the referee was stepping in before the bell sounded for the end of the round.
What problem? The right fighter won. The loser was never left to take a sustained beating. The fight was decided decisively.
The ref stepped in (it looked probably to stop the fight) but as he was doing that the bell rang to end the round so he gave the fighter a chance to recover during the minute rest. It's called common sense and under the rules "Referee discretion". He didn't save Clev from any punishment as the round had ended and he stopped Clev within seconds of the next round when he realised he couldn't shake the punches off.
Unless at the end of R3 you were saying to yourself that the right fighter will win, the loser won't take a sustained beating and the fight will be decided decisively so i don't mind that O'Connor is helping Cleverly back to his corner than it sounds as if you are just deciding this in hindsight and not that this should be the default behaviour for the ref in this situation.
If can understand that O'Connor didn't want to see Nathan take any more punishment just as the bell rang - meaning he wouldn't. Then he should have carefully watched Nathan wobble back to his corner (unassisted) then called in the doctor to observe him during the minute break. It was possible just very unlikely that he would have recovered.
Refs make mistakes now and again , it's unavoidable but something needs to be done when it happens as often as it does with old Terry especially when the questionable decisions only ever seem to benefit the home fighter.
Dixonian wrote:The problem is the referee was stepping in before the bell sounded for the end of the round.
What problem? The right fighter won. The loser was never left to take a sustained beating. The fight was decided decisively.
The ref stepped in (it looked probably to stop the fight) but as he was doing that the bell rang to end the round so he gave the fighter a chance to recover during the minute rest. It's called common sense and under the rules "Referee discretion". He didn't save Clev from any punishment as the round had ended and he stopped Clev within seconds of the next round when he realised he couldn't shake the punches off.
Unless at the end of R3 you were saying to yourself that the right fighter will win, the loser won't take a sustained beating and the fight will be decided decisively so i don't mind that O'Connor is helping Cleverly back to his corner than it sounds as if you are just deciding this in hindsight and not that this should be the default behaviour for the ref in this situation.
If can understand that O'Connor didn't want to see Nathan take any more punishment just as the bell rang - meaning he wouldn't. Then he should have carefully watched Nathan wobble back to his corner (unassisted) then called in the doctor to observe him during the minute break. It was possible just very unlikely that he would have recovered.
Refs make mistakes now and again , it's unavoidable but something needs to be done when it happens as often as it does with old Terry especially when the questionable decisions only ever seem to benefit the home fighter.
Benefit the home fighter? He stopped the fight seconds into the 4th round as soon as he realised Clev couldn't avoid the shots anymore. As for carrying him earlier to the corner. You seem to be suggesting that the ref shouldn't have laid hands on the fighter?
They do it constantly the world over, when they seperate fighters, this was no different. They pull fighters away, step in between them or pull one back, often when one is getting a hiding but the round ends. The reality in this case is that the ref was looking to stop the fight but didn't as the bell rang mid decision. So what? He escorted the dazed fighter back to his corner. So what? He didn't benefit Clev as the round had ended. Clev was observed during the round by the officials. He'd had a tough round but was compus mentus, replying back to his seconds and stood up easily with no need for assistance. People are makign it sound that he was dragged from his corner to the ring for round 4 in a coma! Watch it again.
As for the suggestion that the ref wouldn't have done that to Kovalev, that is exactly that, just unqualified supposition.
Last edited by Clint Magnum on 19 Aug 2013, 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
I don't like Terry as a ref, but can let him off this one.
A good question is, when a ref makes a split second call, then has 2nd thoughts, can he retract ?
I think he can, as long as it's a split second and not a massive inconvenience,
Check out Ian John Lewis, when he ballsed up the Enzo stoppage - boy would he have loved the chance to wave that one back on...but he didn't and everyone was MASSIVELY disappointed.
Terry just about gets away with it - and I don't think Clev had even been hit since the 2nd knockdown and bell, he was just being pushed around and still swaying...the ref hears the bell and thinks, ok one last chance, let's see if his corner can revive him - hometown champ in front of 1000's of his fans....why not, he hadn't taken a beating at all.
It's always been that way. Maybe he helps the poor bastard back to his corner, just a bit, but thankfully he doesn't give him a piggy back.
Big Frank Bruno was famously out on his feet and guided back to him corner by the ref early in his career. Recovered and knocked the guy out 2 rounds later.
And that picture on page 1 is the end of the fight in the 4th, not the 3rd round.
I agree. And yes he can retract. The rules clearly give the ref discretion in this instance. Look how much stick the ref got recently with the Chisora/Scott fight because he didn't use a bit of common sense and discretion and stopped Scott exactly on 10 even though he was clearly up and ready to continue.
The main argument here is whether the ref was bias, their evidence being that O'Connor somehow protected Clev and carried him back to the corner. The ref is there for the welfare of the fighter. Of course he protected Clev. That's his job. The round ended and he did his job. I'm sure he would have done the same for Kovalev but clearly some people believe he was a homer.
What I'd love to know is what the hell is the point of having a doctor ringside? I cannot believe that any medical professional worth his salt would have let a clearly concussed fighter go back out for the next round. He was clearly getting knocked out straight away.
Really sick of officials and trainers taking gambles with other people's brains.
Clint Magnum wrote:
What problem? The right fighter won. The loser was never left to take a sustained beating. The fight was decided decisively.
The ref stepped in (it looked probably to stop the fight) but as he was doing that the bell rang to end the round so he gave the fighter a chance to recover during the minute rest. It's called common sense and under the rules "Referee discretion". He didn't save Clev from any punishment as the round had ended and he stopped Clev within seconds of the next round when he realised he couldn't shake the punches off.
Unless at the end of R3 you were saying to yourself that the right fighter will win, the loser won't take a sustained beating and the fight will be decided decisively so i don't mind that O'Connor is helping Cleverly back to his corner than it sounds as if you are just deciding this in hindsight and not that this should be the default behaviour for the ref in this situation.
If can understand that O'Connor didn't want to see Nathan take any more punishment just as the bell rang - meaning he wouldn't. Then he should have carefully watched Nathan wobble back to his corner (unassisted) then called in the doctor to observe him during the minute break. It was possible just very unlikely that he would have recovered.
Refs make mistakes now and again , it's unavoidable but something needs to be done when it happens as often as it does with old Terry especially when the questionable decisions only ever seem to benefit the home fighter.
Benefit the home fighter? He stopped the fight seconds into the 4th round as soon as he realised Clev couldn't avoid the shots anymore. As for carrying him earlier to the corner. You seem to be suggesting that the ref shouldn't have laid hands on the fighter?
They do it constantly the world over, when they seperate fighters, this was no different. They pull fighters away, step in between them or pull one back, often when one is getting a hiding but the round ends. The reality in this case is that the ref was looking to stop the fight but didn't as the bell rang mid decision. So what? He escorted the dazed fighter back to his corner. So what? He didn't benefit Clev as the round had ended. Clev was observed during the round by the officials. He'd had a tough round but was compus mentus, replying back to his seconds and stood up easily with no need for assistance. People are makign it sound that he was dragged from his corner to the ring for round 4 in a coma! Watch it again.
As for the suggestion that the ref wouldn't have done that to Kovalev, that is exactly that, just unqualified supposition.
Benefit the home fighter? Yes of course if you are giving him a minute to recuperate and a chance to regroup instead of stopping the fight there and then. If everyone in the 100m final got a 5M headstart on Usain Bolt just because they still wouldn't win doesn't mean it wouldn't be a benefit.
Pulling the fighters apart is one thing but guiding them back to the corner another. It's not a big deal in my view but O'Connor has form so gets more scrutiny. Nathan was knocked back into Terry as he was standing behind him so it would be natural to grab hold of him. I believe even if the Terry changed his mind when the bell went and stood back to see if Nathan could make it back under his own steam this wouldn't have been an issue.
Sort of reminded me of Wlad getting knocked out by Brewster. The ref carefully watched Wlad try to make it back after the round had finished, Wlad didn't look like he could he stopped the fight after the bell.
Benefit the home fighter? Yes of course if you are giving him a minute to recuperate and a chance to regroup instead of stopping the fight there and then. If everyone in the 100m final got a 5M headstart on Usain Bolt just because they still wouldn't win doesn't mean it wouldn't be a benefit.
You make it sound like the Ref gave Clev a minute off from the action to recuperate. THE ROUND ENDED. You'd have a point if it was 2 minutes into the round but he jumped in at the end of 3 mins, realised the round was over so let him try to recover in the allotted minute rest. He wasn't trying to protect Cleverly he was about to stop him. What's the big furore?
