Cassius Clay vs. Tom McNeeley 'September 1963'

[HomicideHenry]

Unfortunately for 'good guy' Tom McNeeley,

He would have been 'carved up' and most likely TKO'd by Round 6.

You honestly think he would have made it that long? At his peak best he was dropped numerous times by Floyd Patterson and was kayoed in devestating fashion. 1963 Ali would have stopped him in two-three rounds.

[HomicideHenry]

No Disrespect Mr. Henry,

But if I remember correctly, 'Young Cassius' wasn't exactly dropping Heavyweights to the canvas
at that time in History.

And Tom McNeeley had only been dropped by Floyd Patterson in the 1961 Championship Bout, and
Utah Strongman - George Logan.

In '34-Bouts', those were the 'only' two Heavyweights that had dropped Mr. McNeeley, and only Floyd
had stopped him.
Don't sell Tom McNeeley's toughness short on this one.

Because for the first time in his damn life he stepped up from the regional class. Otherwise, McNeeley was just an average heavyweight.

[klompton]

Thad Spencer knocked him down and Spencer couldnt hit as hard as Ali.

[klompton]

Doesnt matter. It still goes to show that McNeeley wasnt bullet proof against top fighters like Ali. He was also knocked down by Cleroux, Jones, and London. In fact up to the point in question the only top fighter he fought who didnt floor McNeeley was Pastrano who was not a hard puncher. You would think a former WBA official would know all of this... hmmm... instead you say he was only dropped by Patterson and Logan. Not true.

[klompton]

Your exact words: "Tom McNeeley had only been dropped by Floyd Patterson in the 1961 Championship Bout
in {December 1961}, and Utah Strongman - George Logan in {November 1960}."

I didnt realize that being dropped in Britain somehow didnt count? Rather I take that to mean you didnt verify McNeeley's record with googlenews before you posted.

McNeeley was dropped by George Logan twice in 1960, Floyd Patterson eleven times in 1961, Bob Cleroux 3 times in 1962, and once by Brian London in January of 1963. This is in addition to fighters like Doug Jones, Oscar Bonavena, and others who floored McNeeley as well. illustrating that at the top level he was not made of granite or anything close. You can put as many qualifiers on your statement after the fact but the fact remains that Ali would have beaten McNeeley far easier than you state in order to minimize Ali's ability.

[evrenb]

Your exact words: "Tom McNeeley had only been dropped by Floyd Patterson in the 1961 Championship Bout
in {December 1961}, and Utah Strongman - George Logan in {November 1960}."

I didnt realize that being dropped in Britain somehow didnt count? Rather I take that to mean you didnt verify McNeeley's record with googlenews before you posted.

McNeeley was dropped by George Logan twice in 1960, Floyd Patterson eleven times in 1961, Bob Cleroux 3 times in 1962, and once by Brian London in January of 1963. This is in addition to fighters like Doug Jones, Oscar Bonavena, and others who floored McNeeley as well. illustrating that at the top level he was not made of granite or anything close. You can put as many qualifiers on your statement after the fact but the fact remains that Ali would have beaten McNeeley far easier than you state in order to minimize Ali's ability.

And Angelo Dundee said that Ali was the strongest man physically he ever worked with...Would have been like the London bout if not easier...

[klompton]

I dont need google news to tell me what was a knockdown and what wasnt. Just face it duce. You did not know he was dropped so many times. You mispoke and now you are covering your ass. Pathetic. Quit looking on the net and at old boxing illustrated magazines (where you get your ratings info) and just admit you dont have any first hand knowledge of what you are speaking.

[klompton]

I didnt have to be there to have film of the fight. Go back and read your report. Even that admits he was dropped, a fact you didnt know. The others were knockdowns as well. All facts you didnt know but pretended you did. "McNeeley was knocked or wrestled to the canvas three times, in the second, fourth, and eighth rounds." Not "wrestled or thrown" another distortion by you. "McNeeley first went down as the Canadian champion swarmed him midway through the second round, Cleroux also toppling to the ring apron. In the fourth A SOLID LEFT TO THE HEAD SENT MCNEELEY DOWN FOR A SHORT COUNT. The former Michigan State football tackle went down again in the eighth after Cleroux came roaring across the ring at him, LANDING A LEFT AS HE REACHED MCNEELEY AT THE ROPES." But I dont need to rely on google news, why dont you describe what those knockdowns looked like and if they were counted? No? Didnt think so. Wanna keep on spamming and lying and risk getting banned yet again? The only guy I know who gets banned not for getting too personal but for lying? Who gets banned from forums for spreading lies about fighters? Il Duce or Senior Pepe or another one of your alternates.

[klompton]

Judges score fights wonky all the time. As a WBA official you should have plenty of experience in that, particularly in the era you profess to have been active. As for it being an opinion, no facts are not opinions, when you lie about them expect to get called out on it.

[klompton]

Again, I dont need to read a newspaper account. I can watch it. Have you see it? I didnt think so. You are basing your argument on something you have not seen. You are trying to cover your ass because you mispoke. Just like saying his knockdown against London didnt count because it wasnt in Boston.

[klompton]

Cleroux was extremely strong but he wasnt nearly the puncher his record indicates. He never truly knocked out a top fighter.

Look at their common opponents:

Miteff: Ali knocked him down and stopped him in 6. Cleroux never knocked him down and only stopped him on cuts in 7.
Logan: Ali knocked him down and forced a stoppage in 4. Cleroux never knocked him down and only stopped him on cuts in a close fight. After the fight Cleroux was offered a fight with Ali and his manager stated it would take "lots and lots of money" for them to face Ali.
Folley: Ali knocked him down and out in 7. Cleroux never dropped Folley and arguably lost every single round they ever fought.
Williams: Ali dropped and stopped Williams in 3. Cleroux never dropped him and in fact suffered a bad beating despite winning.
Besmanoff: Ali dropped and stopped Besmanoff in 7. Cleroux never dropped Besmanoff in winning a ten rounder.
Chuvalo: Neither dropped him which shouldnt come as a surprise.

Yes, I think Ali was not only a harder puncher but also a classier performer who knew how to get rid of canon fodder like Mcneeley.