off topic the Boxrec official rugby thread.

J · Post by J » 04 Nov 2005, 08:09

Hi guys, after enjoying so much your input, knowledge and chat regarding the lions I thought that we should get a thread devoted to the other love of our lives Rugby.

there is a lot going on over the next weeks and of course all the heineken cup action, good to see my team Bath revert to something like form

anyway predictions and comment welcome lets try and keep this thread going for the six nations too so we dont annoy too many of our non rugby loving boxing buddies.

Henieken cup winners: Toulouse (tho of course i want bath o win)
League : Wasps (ditto)
Celtic league Ospreys
six nations: France, England, Wales, Ireland Scotland Italy in that order.
Anglo celt Cup Bath.

Weekend int: Wales: 16 NZ 36 / France 28 Oz 14

will revert on next weeks fixtures closer too.

look forward to chatting to you about the best game in the world involving a ball!

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 04 Nov 2005, 08:21

I dunno, am going to the England v Aus game and was very excited about that till I saw Robinson's intial exciting young squad get cut down the the boring predictable out of form it currently is.

No Smith!! No Abbott (would have been my centre pairing, Tindell is well out of form)
Jones in ahead of Forrester, Ellis and Dawson ahead of Richards, Simpson-Daniel the most exciting player in the country left out. I'm sure the Aussies are shaking in their boots.

Thank god Sheriden is playing

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 04 Nov 2005, 08:27

more of a footy man myself but i do watch a bit of rugby.
i reckon sale will win the league and as you say j that toulouse look a shoe in for the henieken cup, maybe one of the irish sides can upset them.
looking forward to watching both codes over the weekend.

J · Post by J » 04 Nov 2005, 08:54

YOU CANT DROP TINDELL MATE HE IS PROVEN WORLD CLASS.

agree re the rest tho.

RIchards should be scrum half at present forreaster MUST play.

its time to take alook at some of the young lads now, 18 months til the world cup time is ticking naother poor campaign may see Robbo in trouble.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Nov 2005, 08:56

Heneiken Cup : Toulouse (or another french team).
Guiness Premiership : Wasps.
Celtic League : Munster or Ulster - seen where the Ospreys are J?
Powergen Cup : Wasps.

This weeks Autumn internationals.

New Zealand to win comfortably : J's scoreline is about how I view it.

France : 28 Austailia 25.

states · Post by **states** » 04 Nov 2005, 09:14

Looking forward to all the upcoming Rugby: Are the All Blacks as good as the Lions made them look? (No) can Wales repeat last years heroics in the 6 nations? (I doubt it) Will Robinson actually take England forward? (I have my doubts? And can anyone stop the big-spending French in Europe? (Probably not)

Heineken Cup: Toulouse. An unoriginal pick, but a good one, I feel. There will be a few shocks along the way though.
Premiership: Sale to finish top, Wasps to (inevitably) win the play-offs
Celtic League: Munster
Anglo-Celt Cup: A resurgent Bath
Six Nations: France, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Italy.

Weekends games: Wales 17-38 NZ, France 32-15 Australia

And for a final tip, my old team Northampton Saints will be mediocre all year.

J · Post by J » 04 Nov 2005, 09:16

indeed but its worht the money just to watch them fuiled a hero of mine, Carlos!

I went ever week fior a yuear to Saints when shelford was there, what a fornicating player he was. Truly awe inspiring.

states · Post by **states** » 04 Nov 2005, 09:22

J wrote:indeed but its worht the money just to watch them fuiled a hero of mine, Carlos!

I went ever week fior a yuear to Saints when shelford was there, what a fornicating player he was. Truly awe inspiring.

Thing is, I'm not really a fan of the club. I was at the academy up at Franklins, and there were a lot of arseholes there. You're right about Shelford though, I got to do some training with him when i was 13 or so, he was working with local clubs and schools, the bloke is a legend

J · Post by J » 04 Nov 2005, 09:30

nor am i mate, Bath fan thru n thru!

but you cant miss a chance to see legends like shelford and spencer in action.

I love carlos the mans a box aof trix.

its to rugby's shame that players like he are deemed either not good enough kickers (f-half) or not physical enough (centre) for the international stage, the guy isnt even 30 and has been discarded.

I know one thing for sure he would walk into the england side at inside centre no debate.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 04 Nov 2005, 09:44

Dan Carter aint too bad a fly half to have kept him out though
Castaignede is another, full of skill but cast out of the international team till now.

I am a fan of Tindell but his current form is rubbish. I can understand him being there but Smith has to be outside him. Noon has done well but doesn't feature enough and doesn't run the lines that Smith can. To have a player like Forrester on the bench would have made us so much stronger, what can Jones come on and give us.

Think most people are spot on with there predictions, i'll go along with Toulose, Sale (Wasps win play off), Munster, Bath and France, England, Ireland, Wales, Italy, Scotland

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 04 Nov 2005, 09:52

J wrote:nor am i mate, Bath fan thru n thru!

but you cant miss a chance to see legends like shelford and spencer in action.

I love carlos the mans a box aof trix.

its to rugby's shame that players like he are deemed either not good enough kickers (f-half) or not physical enough (centre) for the international stage, the guy isnt even 30 and has been discarded.

I know one thing for sure he would walk into the england side at inside centre no debate.

thing about spencer is on a good day he`s brilliant but on a day where the tricks aren`t coming off he doesnt have the ability to put structure on the game like carter. and as you say he`d walk into any northern hem. side even in the centre`s but nz just seem to have a production line of skillfull, powerful and quick centre`s like ma`a nonu (sp?) that have been rolling out since the days of joe stanley and beyond.

J · Post by J » 04 Nov 2005, 11:38

agreed Bunce, little, umanga etc but id find a place for flair players.

the international game is a worse place without them in it.

like most backs if the ball is good fast and clean then carlos will perform if the ball is shite then he will struggle.

i agree re carter but he is recent they used to prefer mhertens.

thing is this has been going on yrs in rugby just look at ollie campbell keeping out tony ward.

as a kicker campbell different class but as a rugby plater he wasnt fit to lace wards boots.

rob andrew stu barnes similar.

wilkinson (of today) v hodgeson etc etc etc.

the reaosn i eneded up playing scrum half wasI was actually a fly half, but i could never kick well enough so used to run everything.

when you make a break and either score yourself or set someon e up form your own 22 then you are hero, if you fornicate it up.

they move you to scrum half

needless to say 7's i played fly half.

ILikeBeer · Post by **ILikeBeer** » 04 Nov 2005, 14:41

How is Wilkinson's injury going? Personally I think he could become the first England captain never to captain England.

J · Post by J » 07 Nov 2005, 07:49

he has already captained England mate.

Wales were pitiful on Sat only Gareth Thomas stepped up and the back row,.

the rest were sadly lacking.

thing is I cant England getting within 20 of NZ either, they looked awesome in the 2nd half.

Was pretty close on the France Oz scoreline mind.

Shame the blacks arent playing the french in Paris this Autumn as they ae the two best sides in World rugby at present.

cant belive Robbo has gone to the tried and tested platyers again.

theres too little change since woodward went and not enough chance taking.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Nov 2005, 07:59

J wrote:he has already captained England mate.

Wales were pitiful on Sat only Gareth Thomas stepped up and the back row,.

the rest were sadly lacking.

thing is I cant England getting within 20 of NZ either, they looked awesome in the 2nd half.

Was pretty close on the France Oz scoreline mind.

Shame the blacks arent playing the french in Paris this Autumn as they ae the two best sides in World rugby at present.

cant belive Robbo has gone to the tried and tested platyers again.

theres too little change since woodward went and not enough chance taking.

Is France vs SA happening this year, that would be a cracker - I would say more competitive than NZ vs France - South Africa might be better than NZ up front.

Wonderful display from the Blacks, I wouldn't go asfar as saying Wales were pityful, just outclassed. Wales on that performance wouldn't have slammed, but I think they would have given any of the home nations a tough game. Its all about Levels and I'm afraid we will be talking about the NZ team (after they win the world cup) in the same way we talk about the 1970 Brazil team, and the 1987 NZ side. Wales tried to play the way the did in February, just couldn't do it because they were up against a far superior team.

Gareth Thomas was exceptional, never liked him at 15 untill Saturday. Also wanted to see him in the centre or wing for Wales, but can see now we need him at full back. What a performance.

J · Post by J » 07 Nov 2005, 08:06

Stu sorry mate but that team that palyed on sat wont beat England Ireland or France.

thomas and the back row were 100% committed the front row and second row were woeful.

the scrummage was demolished and the line outs were so bad i though it was England playing, the half backs struggled cos of lack of quality posessiona and the backs lacked go forward and creativity fdeu to injuries and poor service.

still 6 buig names to come back so Wales can regather and re group, dont think anyone expected them to win but to lose by 40 (and lets face it it shoudl have been 50 +) and only score 3 was very dissapointing putting it mildly.

little teaser for you..anyone tell me why Stade Francais has taken to playing in pink for their away games?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:17

J wrote:Stu sorry mate but that team that palyed on sat wont beat England Ireland or France.

thomas and the back row were 100% committed the front row and second row were woeful.

the scrummage was demolished and the line outs were so bad i though it was England playing, the half backs struggled cos of lack of quality posessiona and the backs lacked go forward and creativity fdeu to injuries and poor service.

still 6 buig names to come back so Wales can regather and re group, dont think anyone expected them to win but to lose by 40 (and lets face it it shoudl have been 50 +) and only score 3 was very dissapointing putting it mildly.

little teaser for you..anyone tell me why Stade Francais has taken to playing in pink for their away games?

Well essentially that was the front five that won the slam, if you want to discuss the scrummage problems, IMO it would have been worse with Gethin Jenkins in. Of course, for his play on the loose and work rate Gethin would be one of the first names on the sheet - but big Dunc is a better scrummager. It was much improved with Horseman, who could be one for the future for Wales - England should have capped him a while ago so he couldn't play for us.

Thats what I am saying, the scrummage was dire vs New Zealand, and it will be vs SA (who are better than the blacks in that field). However, would it be dire vs England/Ireland etc. I think, England/Ireland etc will struggle equally as badly and when it comes back to NH rugby Wales will look like they will have a tidy scrum.

Lineouts were a problem in the six nations also, its quite hard to believe but I think Wales had the second worse (and it might have even been the worse) lineout won percentage (on own ball) out of the 6 teams in the 6 nations. Its been a problem area for a long time, I'm not sure Siddoli can cut it at international level. I was always one for wanting to pick Llewellyn, who was our best lineout man. Shame he has retired from internationals - cause we haven't got many coming through (don't talk to me out that Chateris, he is another Derwyn Jones).

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:21

Henieken cup winners: Sale or Stade Francais
League : Sale
Celtic league: Ospreys
six nations: France, England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Italy in that order.
Anglo celt Cup: Bath.

Come on Bath!!

Wales will improve from that fairly woeful performance against the All Blacks. Wales usually play southern hemisphere teams expecting to lose anyway, I'm quite sure of it.

France looked very sound against Australia, though the Aussies will improve 100% on that performance against England at the weekend as they always do. It's quite annoying actually, that unless I'm just being paranoid, teams ALWAYS try harder against England than other teams especially Wales, Ireland, and Australia.... I'm convinced of it.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:26

Loftgroov wrote:Henieken cup winners: Sale or Stade Francais
League : Sale
Celtic league: Ospreys
six nations: France, England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Italy in that order.
Anglo celt Cup: Bath.

Come on Bath!!

Wales will improve from that fairly woeful performance against the All Blacks. Wales usually play southern hemisphere teams expecting to lose anyway, I'm quite sure of it.

France looked very sound against Australia, though the Aussies will improve 100% on that performance against England at the weekend as they always do. It's quite annoying actually, that unless I'm just being paranoid, teams ALWAYS try harder against England than other teams especially Wales, Ireland, and Australia.... I'm convinced of it.

Yep your right, add France and Scotland to that list aswell. Although in the case of both of these nations it tends to backfire as they get to uptight and make mistakes. Almost trying too hard.

J · Post by J » 07 Nov 2005, 08:27

you think that sheriden thompson and vickery will struggle as much as the jones boys Stu? cos i dont.

sheriden should have played for the lions and a fully fit vickery is something england have missed for the past 18 months. THompson as we know is a better scrummaging hooker than he is putting the ball in the lineout.

i think the blacks will be no where as dominant in the scrum, but jack will still ake our line out apart. he is the best forward int he world at present imo.

Surprised by the line out stats..............interesting Stat.

I also think that Wales will get a rude awakening this year in the six nations both Ireland and England away.....plus a class french team on the up.

can only see you beating scotland and italy this year to be frank maybe ireland if you play out of your skins.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:36

Assuming everyone is fit... I'd like to see this England team;

1. Sheridan
2. Mears
3. Vickery
4. Jones
5. Grewcock
6. Dallaglio
7. Rees
8. Corry
9. Perry
10. Hodgson
11. Varndell
12. Wilkinson
13. Noon
14. Ceuto
15. Lewsey

a) Strong forwards
b) Good lineout options
c) Talented backs

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:38

Well, the ABs were excellent on Saturday. They got away with some first rate cheating (particularly shepherding runners and scrummaging) but that's the way they do it. Wales looked average. Front row and back row were half-decent, but the locking partnership is distinctly ordinary. And bringing on Luke Charteris isn't going to help an out-biffed pack. Christ, it was men against boys in terms of physique.

Pleased to see Horsmann capped. Seen him turned over in the scrum a couple of times, but he did well Saturday.

France - Aussie game was enjoyable. I can't see the French losing the 6 Nats.

England side, well, predictable. Interesting as the inside line I had four weeks ago had van Gis at 15, Robbo's evidently bottled it. But England need a hooker who can hook and throw. That'll do for starters.

Pleased to see Sanderson in there as well. Playing really well at the moment, it's a good test for the lad.

Toulouse looked awesome last weekend. They just score when they feel like it. They'd be at least mid-table in the 6 Nations.

states · Post by **states** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:39

I think we can safely say that the All Black 'Grand Slam' is on. When they come to Twickenham, Moody needs to hit Carter as late as possible within the first few minutes, imo. England ain't going to win, that's for sure. Robinson is not the man to lead England back to the summit, he's too closely wed to the players and ideas of the Woodward era. Although next week should be interesting, because Australia look pretty average right now.

Wales were poor. I know they'd have struggled anyway, even with a full-strength squad, but I can see them having problems in the 6 nations as well. Although Gareth Thomas, who I've always considered to be more carthorse than thoroughbred impressed me. Moving to France seems to have improved his allround game a fair bit.

As for the pink shirts, J, I thought it was just some marketing gimmick?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:41

J wrote:you think that sheriden thompson and vickery will struggle as much as the jones boys Stu? cos i dont.

sheriden should have played for the lions and a fully fit vickery is something england have missed for the past 18 months. THompson as we know is a better scrummaging hooker than he is putting the ball in the lineout.

i think the blacks will be no where as dominant in the scrum, but jack will still ake our line out apart. he is the best forward int he world at present imo.

Surprised by the line out stats..............interesting Stat.

I also think that Wales will get a rude awakening this year in the six nations both Ireland and England away.....plus a class french team on the up.

can only see you beating scotland and italy this year to be frank maybe ireland if you play out of your skins.

My darkhorse in this years 6 nations is Scotland. Their celtic league teams are now so nearly "there", the three of them and its all Scottish lads, and yougnsters.

I tip them to beat an Ireland team in transition.

I agree with Wales, I don't expect them to beat France or England, but the days of a hammering by you lot have gone.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 07 Nov 2005, 08:44

Notable absentees, for a few reasons;

2. Thompson - the idiot just can't throw. Sure he can be rampaging in the loose, but his fundemental duties as hooker are substandard. It's long been apparent and he seems to have done little to correct it.

6. Worsley/Moody - I just prefer Dallaglio to Worsley anyway, and Moody gives away too many penalties.

9. Shaun Perry - quick ball from the rucks and mauls e.g. the total opposite of Matt Dawson. Gets the backs going.

11. Simpson-Daniel/Cohen - I'd be tempted to give Voyce, Sackey, or Varndell a shout now...and the Leicester lad is worth a shout. He'll be a real talent in time.

12. Tindell - when he decides to train hard and play rugby rather boning royalty he can come back into the team.

15. van Gisbergan - Yes he can kick... though sadly he can't tackle. I'll stay with Lewsey nailing people as the last man.

Additions;

2. Mears - He can throw lineout ball... the Northampton idiot can't.

7. Tom Rees - awesome for Wasps this season, a real emerging talent at open-side.

9. Ellis - Petulent. The "Alan Smith" of rugby.