Great Amatuers who were busts as Pros

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 16 Oct 2005, 13:48

Jimmy Clark
Vonzell Johnson
Greg Richardson

hawaiianpunch · Post by **hawaiianpunch** » 24 Oct 2005, 02:10

Courage Tshabalala
Andrew Maynard
Paul Gonzalez
Michael Bennett
Jorge Luis Gonzales
Howard Davis Jr.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 24 Oct 2005, 13:33

hawaiianpunch wrote:Courage Tshabalala

He claims to have something like a 75-1 record with 75 1st round KO's thatsq uite hard to believe. As far as I know it has never been verified.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 24 Oct 2005, 18:24

Carl "The Truth" Williams

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 25 Oct 2005, 12:26

Nile4000 wrote:Carl "The Truth" Williams

I thought he only had a very short amateur career?

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 25 Oct 2005, 16:22

KOJOE90 wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:Carl "The Truth" Williams
I thought he only had a very short amateur career?

Yeah, I think he had only twenty-something fights, and his only loss was by disqualification in an AAU tournament.But I have only seen and heard positive things concerning his amateur career.

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 25 Oct 2005, 17:46

I'm confused with this thread. People mention a lot of fighters who don´t have any important amateur titles and call them "great amateurs". Winning some state golden gloves titles hardly makes you a great amateur. That's like saying winning the WBF title makes you a great professional.
How can Don Curry be named as a great amateur when he never competed at a major championship (Olympics, Worlds or PanAms)?? OK, he was supposed to fight at the 1980 Olympics, but maybe he would lose in the first round? He was a two-time pro world champ and for a while and was mentioned in the top 2 pound for pound rankings. He can hardly have been a bust as a pro.
What qualifies a boxer as a "great amateur"? In my mind it's somebody who has an extended international amateur carreer winning some kind of medal at the Olympics or World championships or Pan Am Games (if he's american) and have great expectations on him becoming a star. If that boxer doesn't reach a world title - then he's a bust.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 25 Oct 2005, 19:06

locoxelbox wrote:I'm confused with this thread. People mention a lot of fighters who don´t have any important amateur titles and call them "great amateurs". Winning some state golden gloves titles hardly makes you a great amateur. That's like saying winning the WBF title makes you a great professional.
How can Don Curry be named as a great amateur when he never competed at a major championship (Olympics, Worlds or PanAms)?? OK, he was supposed to fight at the 1980 Olympics, but maybe he would lose in the first round? He was a two-time pro world champ and for a while and was mentioned in the top 2 pound for pound rankings. He can hardly have been a bust as a pro.
What qualifies a boxer as a "great amateur"? In my mind it's somebody who has an extended international amateur carreer winning some kind of medal at the Olympics or World championships or Pan Am Games (if he's american) and have great expectations on him becoming a star. If that boxer doesn't reach a world title - then he's a bust.

Understood, but at the same time, there are fighters who never win international tourneys, but beat many good to great international fighters.Also, there are fighters who win several interantional events and never really seem to dominate titlewise on the national scene(example, Tony Tucker).

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 07 Nov 2005, 12:45

KOJOE90 wrote:
overhand_right wrote:have you all forgot tyrell biggs?
Would you class Biggs as great?

Very good yes, but not great. Or am I splitting hairs?

well he did win a gold medal...so its not a reach to consider him a great amuater.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 Nov 2005, 12:58

ShoeShine wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:
overhand_right wrote:have you all forgot tyrell biggs?
Would you class Biggs as great?

Very good yes, but not great. Or am I splitting hairs?
well he did win a gold medal...so its not a reach to consider him a great amuater.

But would he have won if Cuba etc had competed at those Olympics? The chances are he would have to at some stage fought Stevenson again a man who had already beaten him a number of times?

I take your point and I suppose it's where you draw the line between very good and great. But to me Biggs just falls short of a GREAT amateur.

boxinghead · Post by **boxinghead** » 07 Nov 2005, 13:42

How can reaching a world title be a bum. Ask some of the hundreds of boxers who quit during their six rounders. Don't forget, most people don't see pros until the finish their 4,6,8 rounders. Ask some of those guys that never make out of the eight rounders what it would feel like to be a world champion. David Reid, Mark Brelon, Leon Spinks, and I guess guys like Buster Douglas. I guess to the naked eye, three years ago Winky Wright was considered a bum. After the lost to Vargas, his career was counted out. Now that he is a champ, he only wants two or three more fights. He had a long road. He is ready to quit, not please the public. There are always some good boxers who never got the chance. If it wasn't for Denzel Washington, nobody would of known the Hurricane. Ruben who?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 07 Nov 2005, 13:48

boxinghead wrote:How can reaching a world title be a bum. Ask some of the hundreds of boxers who quit during their six rounders. Don't forget, most people don't see pros until the finish their 4,6,8 rounders. Ask some of those guys that never make out of the eight rounders what it would feel like to be a world champion. David Reid, Mark Brelon, Leon Spinks, and I guess guys like Buster Douglas. I guess to the naked eye, three years ago Winky Wright was considered a bum. After the lost to Vargas, his career was counted out. Now that he is a champ, he only wants two or three more fights. He had a long road. He is ready to quit, not please the public. There are always some good boxers who never got the chance. If it wasn't for Denzel Washington, nobody would of known the Hurricane. Ruben who?

Sorry was this aimed at me? If so you've lost me completely?

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 07 Nov 2005, 18:18

Serafim Todorov.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 07 Nov 2005, 18:20

Richard Sandoval.

boxinghead · Post by **boxinghead** » 07 Nov 2005, 22:15

Not aiming it at anybody. Some of the boxers named by some of the people in the forum became world champions. I was just stating that it is a hard road to a title fight most of the time. Usually a world title holder is not a bum. He may turn into nothing after that payday, but most of the time it was hard work.

Yaras72 · Post by **Yaras72** » 16 Nov 2005, 04:43

Hocine Soltani (ALG)
Nurhan Suleymanoglu (TUR)
Christophe Mendy (FRA)
Rhoshii Wells (USA)
Nate Jones (USA)
Sayan Sanchat (RUS)

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 29 Nov 2005, 12:38

Would you guys consider Mark Breland a bust?? Or was he just overhyped? They had him being the next SRR and although he surely didnt live up to that, he still didnt have such a bad career...any thoughts??

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 29 Nov 2005, 22:09

He didn't live up to expectations but he was certainly no bust.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 07 Dec 2005, 19:30

Richard Savage
Duane Bobick

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 21 Dec 2005, 04:15

George Collins.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 21 Dec 2005, 17:33

Marvin Stinson

evanr00 · Post by **evanr00** » 22 Dec 2005, 11:21

punchy wrote:The most recent fighter I can think of is Ebo Elder. The only thing standing in his way in the amateurs was Ricardo Williams. Had it not been for Williams, Elder would've been one of the olympic representatives. Ebo was doing well as a pro against limited competition, though he did handily beat the always tough Emmanuel Clottey. Then Ubaldo Hernandez KO'd Elder in the first round. That is the last fight I know of that Elder had.

Can u tell me more details about Ebo's amatuer career please?

He did fight again after the KO loss to Hernandez. He retired after that loss to join a band for a few years. In 2004 he decided to make a comeback, and had a really good year, going 6-0 and beating undefeated(at the time) 140lbs prospect Oscar Diaz, then dropped to LW and beat Courtney Burton in an absolute war! Both guys traded shots all night long and with Ebo down on the scorecards, he came back to KO Burton in the 12th round. That fight got Ebo a shot at Jaun Diaz'a WBA belt in summer of 05, but Diaz was injured in training and the bout was put off. So then there was a #1 contender match for that title with Ebo fighting Lavka Sim in Atlanta. I didn't see the fight but from what I heard Ebo was outfought totally, knocked down 5 times, and TKO'd in the 12th. I don't know what the future holds for Ebo but I think he can still do some good things.

He seems to be somewhat like Gatti and Holyfield(no where near as skilled or tough as those 2) in that he has the boxing skills to win fights, but he often chooses to slug with his opponents instead of being the slick southpaw he should be. With his lack of power it really hurts him in fights, and I think he should drop to 130lbs if he can, so his power will be better.

What was his style like in the amatuers? Was he more of a boxer or a puncher?

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 09 May 2006, 08:19

Freiheit wrote:Serafim Todorov.

I have just been putting together rankings for all time greatest Amateurs & had a look at some of there records as pro, this must be the worst upset ever!

3 X World Champion
1 X Olympic Silver medal
1 X World Silver medal

Pro record W5-L1 and he lost 2nd fight, so after that upset he decided to take on Anton Glofak W0-L28!

In the 1995 World Championships Todorov beats Noureddine Medjehoud (ALG), Medjehoud a World Silver medalist turns pro after and his pro record is even worse W0-L3

Just goes to show that good amateurs dont make good Pro's

locoxelbox · Post by **locoxelbox** » 17 May 2006, 19:27

The thing is Todorov was a semi-retired top amateur who already fought in 3 Olympic Games and turned pro at 29 years. Hardly an age to start a brilliant pro career. It's a big difference to, say Ricardo Williams, who was expected to be a superstar but flopped.

prc85040 · Post by **prc85040** » 17 Jun 2006, 14:38

How about Eddie Murphy's brother? I don't know what his name is, but I remember Murphy always talking about how "bad!" his brother is on the late nite talk shows. Does anyone remember that?

Great Amatuers who were busts as Pros

Champions

Re: Champions

Champions

Eddie Murphy's brother