Boxers Who Joined the U.S. Military With Pride.

[evrenb]

Tunney Morgan Hunsaker,

Born on February 17, 1930 - Tunney Morgan Hunsaker

Enlisted in the United States Air Force in 1950 and learned boxing at the
Air Force Base in Lakeland, Texas.

Won several All-Military Regional Tournaments including a Texas Golden Gloves Title.

Earned a rank of 'AB' Airman Basic in the Air Force and served in the Navy in the Korean War.

Turned professional on July 22, 1952, and by June 9, 1953 had compiled a decent
10-2-0 {3 KO's} record while competing at 185 lbs.

Was discharged from the United States Military in 1953, after performing his duties to the
highest standards.

Retired from Professional Boxing in July 1953, but returned 5-years later on July 3, 1958
at age 28.

Did get his record up to 15-3-1 by July 1959 - but soon became a West Virginia 'Trial-Horse'.

A well-respected good guy who fought to the best of his abilities.

I think we are getting to the source of Il Duce's Ali hatred....

[evrenb]

Hi

Can you please state the point of this thread.?
I think it is very admirable for any person to join their respective Military service. I really do.
That people take the ultimate sacrifice for the safety and protection of others is almost beyond my selfish comprehension. In my eyes these gentleman are the real heroes.. . .

Now my question is to you : what is the point of this thread??

Considering that you have been Ali bashing for the last few weeks and all the fighters that you have listed as 'boxers who joined the US Military with pride' were opponents of Ali I have the strong suspicion that this is a very underhand, devious and uncalled for subject.

evrenb

[evrenb]

But regardless of his political intentions, personal beliefs etc ..that Ali took a stand (wrong or right in your view) probably saved more lives in the long run than if he hadn't become a conscientious objector. He fueled the growing Anti-War sentiment. . he fueled the black power movement..
I do understand that his stance divided America greatly..

So my point is why do you not say what you feel...? Why all the veiled attacks on Ali...?

You are out to denigrate Ali by diminishing his political stance, his religion (as Ali cites this as the reason for not entering the war) and also his highly accomplished boxing career by assassinating the merits of his opponents ; either calling them 'old' or 'over the hill'. . .

evrenb

p.s - what next?? His poetry??

[evrenb]

Mr. Evren B,

Where have I said Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali was 'bad individual'.

Unfortunately it's your personal view of my information thread.

Now that you have brought up poetry, my family member 'Mr. Gary Belkin' wrote
nearly everything that Mr. Cassius Clay recited......

That Is A Fact............

Why are you quoting me as saying 'bad individual' . . i cannot see that I ever wrote that....

[evrenb]

Mr. Evren B,

Where have I said Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali was 'bad individual'.

Unfortunately it's your personal view of my information thread.

Now that you have brought up poetry, my family member 'Mr. Gary Belkin' wrote
nearly everything that Mr. Cassius Clay recited......

That Is A Fact............

Why are you quoting me as saying 'bad individual' . . i cannot see that I ever wrote that....

Answer the question....fact evader! lol
Is this the same accuracy you use when you paraphrase old boxing reports!!!

[evrenb]

Mr. Evren B,

I never said 'you personally' stated that 'bad individual' phrase.

Others have made reference that I dislike Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali.

Based upon what......because they do not like the way I present information.

Oh, there are a few mistakes here and there,,,,,,, but on the overall it is pretty accurate.

Not everybody can be as perfect as Mr. Klompton.

Read your post again...you addressed me then asked the question...lol...doesn't matter...

[scallum]

This getting old

[gilgamesh]

This getting old

Why, are you fearful about learning something about some old-time boxers and 'Veterans', or do
you want to here more about Muhammad Ali vs.
* Sonny Liston
* Joe Frazier
* Kenny Norton
* George Foreman

A guy's having been a Military veteran has little to no meaning to his career as a fighter. For the record, I think Ali's refusing the draft for the reasons he did was equally as brave as anybody who joined the Military because of the draft.

I know several people wouldn't agree with that, but that's my view on it. The Vietnam War was just one of many reasons why it's probably a good idea not to join the Military.

I'm not trying to insult the Soldiers who serve their country and fight the fights that need to be fought at all. I have the utmost respect for them as individuals, but I certainly don't support the military industrial complex and fighting wars just for the sake of money. Which is what every single War in the past 60 or so years has been about...The United States of America attempting to rule and govern the world and make a lot of money while sending young men to die for senseless causes.

[gilgamesh]

Gilgamesh,

I'm shocked that you would even honestly believe what you just said.

Being a Military Veteran has little to no meaning to his career as a fighter.

Do you have any idea of how many Boxers got their start in Boxing
because of the Military.

Enlisting in the Military does not mean that you enjoy War.

But, I do agree with you. The United States Military is a 'machine' where 'big money' is made
by the Government Contractors who enjoy a 'major conflict'.

This is a fair point that I didn't consider, I retract that part of my post. I stand by the rest of it.

Also I never meant to imply that joining the Military means one loves war. Obviously War is not ideal for any human being unless they're a seriously f*cked up person with more than a few screws loose.

[funso banjo baby]

one of the major factors in the Vietnam war ending was the proliferation of sabotage and terrorism within the US army itself.

not a lot of people know that

[yancey]

one of the major factors in the Vietnam war ending was the proliferation of sabotage and terrorism within the US army itself.

not a lot of people know that

Are you speaking of fragging?

From what I've read and heard, it was a real issue in Vietnam.

[scallum]

This getting old

Why, are you fearful about learning something about some old-time boxers and 'Veterans', or do
you want to here more about Muhammad Ali vs.
* Sonny Liston
* Joe Frazier
* Kenny Norton
* George Foreman

I proudly served in Usa Military 1985-1989 but if I was Alive during the time Ali refused induction, no frigging way would I had served a country where my people are treated as subhuman. Even in 1985 while in my US Navy dress Blues I was denied service Meridian, Mississippi lol. No frigging way would I had represented in frigging 1960s, would rather be sent to jail

[crib73]

Good Question Mr. Evren B.

This is in no way a 'bashing thread'.

It is an information thread, to combat an argument from another 'misinformed poster' to some of my
other information threads.

When somebody argues that 'it took a tremendous amount of courage' to take a stand against an unjust war.

That can be debated, especially when you have a litany of Attorneys arguing your case for you while you still live a
very fine life and are enjoying the niceties that others have provided for you, and hide behind the Lawyers in front
of you.

That argument does not show courage. What toughness is in that. You're fighting your battle with 'Words'
and 'Legal Advice' to get out of an 'Honor and Responsibility' that you do not want to participate in, after
agreeing to do so.

The real courage and inner-strength of a person is to accept the challenge of contributing, putting yourself
behind your own personal goals 'temporarily' or for a short period of time, as you can continue on with your
career after a truly short commitment.

If this about Ali refusing induction it's the thing I admire about him most. Honour & Responsibility for what? To go into a institution that murders people for political & geographical motives, you need to get a grip man.

Fair enough if you dislike Ali but in the end he was proved right as the Yanks quit & were run out of Vietnam. So what's you're point?

[banjo]

Ali was never going to go to war though was he, he would have been paraded around US bases doing exhibitions Captain America style.

[crib73]

You are spot on there Banjo, he would have been a show monkey. Good for troops morale, maybe. I just not that into armed forces & war tbh, so the patriotic thing goes by me.

[crib73]

Lets throw a 'switch' here.

Let's say Cassius Clay was a Doctor in 1964, and he was called to duty by the United States
Government to provide his services as a Physician for 2-Years in a Childrens Hospital for
Military Personnel.

And then he had his name changed for him, and claimed the same reason of 'his religious beliefs'
to avoid performing his services.

Would you still respect his decision.

Don't do what if's, whether in general life or boxing (p4p or h2h) as it's pointless. It didn't happen but if you are asking if another scenario came up where someone (anyone) refused for their personal beliefs then I don't have a problem. What I have a problem with is people who try to foist their issues onto others to make them out as bad, weak or whatever you want to describe.

In essence, if you're stance is to denigrate someone for a decision that you don't agree with then maybe you are as blinkered as the person you are judging. It can be debated to what reason Ali refused conscription & believe me I'm dead against organised religion but people have a right to what they believe if that was the genuine reason. Maybe he was a draft dodger as the term goes but I stated when the original Iraq war was going on & it was being banded out in the UK that the people at my age (at the time) could be called up , I would have refused, but that's my choice. If someone invaded the country where I live then that's different.

If it is an Ali bashing exercise then you need to be a bit more informed instead of just raking up ill formed opinions. As a fighter I'm not really bothered about him but he was a decent fighter, like him or not. As an individual he had some bad traits but don't we all, there has been many nasty characters in this business as within any business. Personally I think there are some very shady/evil figures in the forces & government are far worse but that's a never ending debate.

Let me put it this way, as a massive Holyfield fan I wasn't a Tyson fan but I'm not gonna start bashing his career because he was the main rival for Evander for a number of years & was a person of some ill repute outside the ring.

[evrenb]

Crib 73,

Correct, the 'what if game' is pointless.

I will continue with Boxers who jointed the U.S. Military with Pride.

Next up, Alonzo Johnson.

Hi

Please answer why you are doing this using only Muhammad Ali's opponents as examples??

evrenb

[evrenb]

Good Question Mr. Evren B.

I just wanted to see if any other Professional Boxer had a 'religious awakening' just before they
were Called to Duty.

Did you know Brian London was in the RAF..........

I believe Brian London was in the RAF boxing team '53 or '54 and his team won an inter service championship...

Brian London's poorest performance was probably against Muhammad Ali.

He had a good career and made a good living. He faced many top contenders and name fighters and beat a few of them along the way. He challenged for the world title twice. In those days that was an achievement.

It is also worth noting that prior to him challenging Floyd Patterson for the world championship he lost to Henry Cooper over 15 rounds. (his preceding fight) ...seemed that he had a bit of luck in that department.

He was also quite weighty for his day - around 210lb's

evrenb

[evrenb]

Brian Harper

Born on June 19, 1934 in West Hartlepool, County Durham

In 1953 joined the RAF {Royal Air Force}.

In the United Kingdom, 'all-healthy men' were required to perform 2-Years of National Service
in the Armed Forces, regardless of 'religious beliefs'.

Brian took up Boxing while in the RAF and won numerous Heavyweight Titles while compiling
an 87-2 Amateur Record.

Earned the Air Force Rank of 'SAC' Senior Air-Craftman, before his completed service in 1955.

Turned Professional on March 22, 1955 under the 'moniker' Brian London.

Later earned the nickname 'British Bulldog', and later 'The Blackpool Rock' as he worked for the
Blackpool Rock Factory.

His Professional History has long been discussed, but Brian is one of the few Heavyweight Challengers
who fought for the Heavyweight Championship 'twice' and over 7-Years apart from those Challenges.

You cannot help yourself can you Il Duce...shame.

[thunderfromdownunder]

This getting old

Why, are you fearful about learning something about some old-time boxers and 'Veterans', or do
you want to here more about Muhammad Ali vs.
* Sonny Liston
* Joe Frazier
* Kenny Norton
* George Foreman

I proudly served in Usa Military 1985-1989 but if I was Alive during the time Ali refused induction, no frigging way would I had served a country where my people are treated as subhuman. Even in 1985 while in my US Navy dress Blues I was denied service Meridian, Mississippi lol. No frigging way would I had represented in frigging 1960s, would rather be sent to jail

that's the I've always thought of it. Why would Ali and other young black men want to go fight a war and die for a country that treated them like dirt.

[scallum]

Why would Cassius Clay want to live in a country where 'supposedwere. everyone in his race was treated like dirt.

Why would Cassius Clay fight in the Olympics for the United States.

Why would Cassius Clay sign an exclusive contract with '11' White Businessmen from Kentucky.

Why would Cassius Clay accept a new Red Cadillac, built by General Motors who's Executive Staff was all white,
and the same Corporation that built vehicles and armarment for the United States Military to be used in Vietnam.

Seems to me, to be 'selective' in one's 'personal view' can be a 'double-edged' Sword.

Either you believe in what you are saying, or you are 'twisting in the wind' to create false persecution.

Where the frick else would Clay choose to live,Frigging Africa? Black Americans were not accepted there either. Clay worked busted his tail to get what he wanted

[evrenb]

Why would Cassius Clay want to live in a country where 'supposedly' everyone in his race was treated like dirt.

Why would Cassius Clay fight in the Olympics for the United States.

Why would Cassius Clay sign an exclusive contract with '11' White Businessmen from Kentucky.

Why would Cassius Clay accept a new Red Cadillac, built by General Motors who's Executive Staff was all white,
and the same Corporation that built vehicles and armarment for the United States Military to be used in Vietnam.

Seems to me, to be 'selective' in one's 'personal view' can be a 'double-edged' Sword.

Either you believe in what you are saying, or you are 'twisting in the wind' to create false persecution.

Il Duce

Watch the Muhammad Ali - Michael Parkinson interview..the second one from late 1974...Parkinson breaches the same sort of subject...

Remember Ali has changed his stance on separatism now...he understands that was wrong....

evren

[Giancarlo]

Can we close this thread Buzz.

It is starting to turn nasty and Il Douche now appears to have some sort of racist agenda.

[evrenb]

Hey il douche is my term!!! Lol

[Giancarlo]

Duce or Douche or whatever, he's still posting racist crap.

Funny how they all descend to that level eventually.