British Top 30 P4P September 2013

[Horse]

1. (1.) Carl Froch
2. (2.) Ricky Burns
3. (3.) David Haye
4. (4.) Martin Murray
5. (16.) Darren Barker
6. (5.) Amir Khan
7. (6.) Tyson Fury
8. (7.) George Groves
9. (8.) Tony Bellew
10. (10.) Jamie McDonnell

11. (11.) Kell Brook
12. (12.) Ola Afolabi
13. (9.) Nathan Cleverly
14. (13.) Matthew Macklin
15. (14.) Carl Frampton
16. (15.) Lee Selby
17. (17.) James DeGale
18. (18.) Scott Quigg
19. (19.) Lee Haskins
20. (20.) Frankie Gavin

21. (21.) Dereck Chisora
22. (22.) Brian Rose
23. (24.) Darren Hamilton
24. (25.) Billy Joe Saunders
25. (RE.) Stephen Smith
26. (26.) Anthony Crolla
27. (27.) Gavin Rees
28. (28.) Derry Mathews
29. (29.) Andy Lee (Irish)
30. (30.) John Simpson

Out - (23.) Gary Buckland

[Horse]

Any comments/criticisms of the British Top 30 P4P list are very welcome.

[daviddee]

Cleverly should still be above Bellew!! Barker should be above Murray who is a bit high. Apart from that pretty good this month I personally would maybe have a few different but not by much. What's your opinion on Froch/Burns? I look at opponents and don't see much difference both fighting World Class fighters but Burns a bit more active and Froch was destroyed against Ward also close against Kessler..Surely an Argument for Burns being 1?

[crusader]

Froch wasn't destroyed by Ward (who is waayyyyyyyyy better than anyone Burns has faced) and his resume is much stronger than Burns's is. He also didn't go life and death in his most recent fight with someone lacking any notable win.

I see no argument for anyone but Froch being number one.

[daviddee]

Froch wasn't destroyed by Ward (who is waayyyyyyyyy better than anyone Burns has faced) and his resume is much stronger than Burns's is. He also didn't go life and death in his most recent fight with someone lacking any notable win.

I see no argument for anyone but Froch being number one.

He was made to look poor which I think destroyed kind of covers it.. How is his résumé better though which fighter? Bute a bit of a hype job with a padded record.. Comparable to standard on Kevin Mitchell or even Roman Martinez.. Kessler he lost the first fight and the 2nd fight was close comparable to Katsidis.. I think Froch although probably deserves to be number 1 in uk it is very close

[magnus]

If made to look poor = destroyed, was Ricky destroyed in most of his last fight?

I rate Burns highly, but to suggest his resume is of the same standard as Froch's is incredible.

[squared circle]

Is it April 1st?

[earsjohn]

Froch wasn't destroyed by Ward (who is waayyyyyyyyy better than anyone Burns has faced) and his resume is much stronger than Burns's is. He also didn't go life and death in his most recent fight with someone lacking any notable win.

I see no argument for anyone but Froch being number one.

Absolutely. I'd even advocate going down the IBF route and having a vacancy at No 2 in the rankings, such is the gap between Froch and The Rest.

Burns is a top fighter, on a decent run, but to suggest he comes close to Carl is utter rot.

[earsjohn]

Froch wasn't destroyed by Ward (who is waayyyyyyyyy better than anyone Burns has faced) and his resume is much stronger than Burns's is. He also didn't go life and death in his most recent fight with someone lacking any notable win.

I see no argument for anyone but Froch being number one.

He was made to look poor which I think destroyed kind of covers it.. How is his résumé better though which fighter? Bute a bit of a hype job with a padded record.. Comparable to standard on Kevin Mitchell or even Roman Martinez.. Kessler he lost the first fight and the 2nd fight was close comparable to Katsidis.. I think Froch although probably deserves to be number 1 in uk it is very close

So working down their respective resumes, I guess you have:

First world title win: Jean Pascal v Roman Martinez (fair comparison)
First World title Defence: Jermain Taylor v Andreas Evensen (Hmm....)
Second World Title Defence: Andre Dirrell v Joseph Laryea (Errr....)
First Defeat: Mikkel Kessler v Alex Arthur (Oh dear)
Follow Up to First Defeat: Arthur Abraham v Adolphe Avadja (I had to look that one up)
Embarrasing Title Defence that shouldn't have been sanctioned: (at a push) Yusuf Mack v Nicky Cook

Shall I go on?

[ajwesty13]

sorry but haye seems high for someone who has been pretty inactive.. is it done horse by fights, class of opponents and opinions? think barker should be above Murray and jamie a little higher.. however you do know a lot about boxing its just a query....

[daviddee]

Froch wasn't destroyed by Ward (who is waayyyyyyyyy better than anyone Burns has faced) and his resume is much stronger than Burns's is. He also didn't go life and death in his most recent fight with someone lacking any notable win.

I see no argument for anyone but Froch being number one.

He was made to look poor which I think destroyed kind of covers it.. How is his résumé better though which fighter? Bute a bit of a hype job with a padded record.. Comparable to standard on Kevin Mitchell or even Roman Martinez.. Kessler he lost the first fight and the 2nd fight was close comparable to Katsidis.. I think Froch although probably deserves to be number 1 in uk it is very close

So working down their respective resumes, I guess you have:

First world title win: Jean Pascal v Roman Martinez (fair comparison)
First World title Defence: Jermain Taylor v Andreas Evensen (Hmm....)
Second World Title Defence: Andre Dirrell v Joseph Laryea (Errr....)
First Defeat: Mikkel Kessler v Alex Arthur (Oh dear)
Follow Up to First Defeat: Arthur Abraham v Adolphe Avadja (I had to look that one up)
Embarrasing Title Defence that shouldn't have been sanctioned: (at a push) Yusuf Mack v Nicky Cook

Martinez was talked about in pound for pound no comparison.
Against Taylor Froch was actually losing until he pulled it out the bag
Andre Dirrell I thought Froch lost
Arthur Abraham I agree but different times in respective careers
Nicky Cook was at least a world champion of sorts at one

There has been a bigger buzz around Froch because of the Super six. I agree Froch should probably be number 1 but if Burns beats Beltran then unifies I think he should be.. Just my opinion

[earsjohn]

Martinez was talked about in pound for pound no comparison.
Against Taylor Froch was actually losing until he pulled it out the bag
Andre Dirrell I thought Froch lost
Arthur Abraham I agree but different times in respective careers
Nicky Cook was at least a world champion of sorts at one

There has been a bigger buzz around Froch because of the Super six. I agree Froch should probably be number 1 but if Burns beats Beltran then unifies I think he should be.. Just my opinion

I always assume posters are serious unless there are obvious signs of trolling, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt....

- Martinez was in no way in P4P reckoning, unless you are talking top 40 P4P, in which case the Pascal comparison is legitimate.
- Froch beat Taylor. legitimately, and without controversy. I wasn't aware 12 round fights were judged based on the 11 round scores. And My point was around the quality of the opposition. Froch almost lost but actually beat the former Middleweight World Champion. Andreas Evensen had never even fought at Super Feather prior to the Burns fight.
- Losing to Andre Dirrell in a razor thin decision is still more relevant than beating the unheard of Laryea who was thrown in by virtue of beating Paul Appleby. This is what we are talking here - you are trying to compare Andre Dirrell unfavourably with someone who was supposed to lose to Paul Appleby. And Froch won.
- Froch's 28th Fight was against Abraham; Burns's was against Kevin O'Hara. Former World Champion Abraham was Carl's 5th World Title Fight; Ricky's 5th World Title fight was against Paulus Moses (excluding Interim titles)
- Even if you allow for the dubious World Title "reign" of Nicky Cook three years previously, he was patently unfit on fight night. It was one of the most shambolic affairs in a UK ring in recent years and teh lack of action by the Board in the aftermath speaks of their credibility far more than, say, the Haye-Chisora affair.

[Horse]

Cleverly should still be above Bellew!!

Cleverly had been fighting very poor opposition for 22 months since the Bellew fight and then he got destroyed by Kovalev. Bellew deserves to be above Cleverly at the moment.

Barker should be above Murray who is a bit high.

Murray beat Martinez on about 50% of people's scorecards and also beat Sturm in a lot of people's opinions. I currently think Murray is a bit better with a better record.

Apart from that pretty good this month I personally would maybe have a few different but not by much. What's your opinion on Froch/Burns? I look at opponents and don't see much difference both fighting World Class fighters but Burns a bit more active and Froch was destroyed against Ward also close against Kessler..Surely an Argument for Burns being 1?

Froch is the clear No. 1 in my opinion.

[daviddee]

Cleverly should still be above Bellew!!

Cleverly had been fighting very poor opposition for 22 months since the Bellew fight and then he got destroyed by Kovalev. Bellew deserves to be above Cleverly at the moment.

Barker should be above Murray who is a bit high.

Murray beat Martinez on about 50% of people's scorecards and also beat Sturm in a lot of people's opinions. I currently think Murray is a bit better with a better record.

Apart from that pretty good this month I personally would maybe have a few different but not by much. What's your opinion on Froch/Burns? I look at opponents and don't see much difference both fighting World Class fighters but Burns a bit more active and Froch was destroyed against Ward also close against Kessler..Surely an Argument for Burns being 1?

Froch is the clear No. 1 in my opinion.

I'm not saying he's not no1 just don't see it as clear as everyone else. Kovalev will do the same to anyone at that weight. If Clev fights on he will be a World Champion again. I can't see Bellew even becoming one.. Clev beat him by 4 rounds.. I agree to a certain extent with you on Murray but end of the day he lost.. Barker is World Champion so I would have him above.. As for asking about trolling just because someone doesn't jump on the media hype of fighters doesn't mean they are trolling.. Froch is very good and has really shocked me at how well he has done since loses to Kessler and Ward but I'm the last fight with Kessler it was close I had Kessler just winning and in honesty he's past his prime.. If Froch was that good he'd step up and fight Hopkins but instead he's going to lose to Groves..

[jackukmma]

Quigg should be above Frampton. Haye should be 4 or 5 places lower due to inactivity. Fury is a little too high. Barker one spot above Murray for me. That's just nitpicking though. Good list

[DMA1987]

Worst one I've seen yet from you horse.

14-30 are terrible.

[simonsays]

Barker is a world champion and beat a former unified champ so he should be above Murray no question?

[macaca]

Cannot argue with No 1
Ricky Burns has no business anywhere near the top 5
Can argue all day long about the rest

[billy nelson]

Cannot argue with No 1
Ricky Burns has no business anywhere near the top 5
Can argue all day long about the rest

How can you say that about Ricky, out of all the weight divisions in the UK he's miles better than the next rated boxer in his weight catagory?

[earsjohn]

Cannot argue with No 1
Ricky Burns has no business anywhere near the top 5
Can argue all day long about the rest

How can you say that about Ricky, out of all the weight divisions in the UK he's miles better than the next rated boxer in his weight catagory?

Paul Butler?

[Horse]

sorry but haye seems high for someone who has been pretty inactive.. is it done horse by fights, class of opponents and opinions?

It's based mostly on proven ability.

Haye beat Chisora impressively last July. If he beats Fury this month then I think he'll deserve to keep his ranking, if he loses then he'll drop.

think barker should be above Murray and jamie a little higher.. however you do know a lot about boxing its just a query....

I think Murray controversially losing to Martinez is better than Barker narrowly beating Geale and I'd pick Murray to beat Barker as well.

McDonnell just needs to step up his level of opposition a bit.

[Horse]

Quigg should be above Frampton.

If Quigg beats Salinas this month then he'll probably move ahaed of Frampton.

Haye should be 4 or 5 places lower due to inactivity. Fury is a little too high.

The Haye vs Fury fight this month should allow me to alter their rankings.

Barker one spot above Murray for me. That's just nitpicking though. Good list

[Horse]

Worst one I've seen yet from you horse.

14-30 are terrible.

You are wrong.

[johnswan1]

My top 13...

1. Carl Froch
2. David Haye - beaten better opposition than Burns
3. Ricky Burns
4. Amir Khan - chin and inability to fight smart lets him down but definitelty one of the best
5. Darren Barker
6. Jamie McDonnell - world champ
6. Nathan Cleverly - one defeat against a top operator having made multiple defences
7. Martin Murray - should not be ahead of any of the six above who all had world titles
9. Tony Bellew - world title shot coming up
10. George Groves - getting his world title shot (probably too early)
11. Kell Brook - is a pick em on paper against any of the top Welters, especially if stamina holds up
12. Carl Frampton - comfortably beat Kiki M who is now world champ
13. Scott Quigg
13. Tyson Fury - hasn't beaten anybody of note

[Horse]

Barker is a world champion and beat a former unified champ so he should be above Murray no question?

I disagree.