Sensation: Vitali Klitschko retires!

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 09 Nov 2005, 07:56

steve689 wrote:
Coconut wrote:The guy's a unit and he's got an admitted history of juicing
What does that mean Coconut

He's a large fellow with an acknowledged steroid-using past.

Leads to easier physical breakdown...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Nov 2005, 07:59

Podmore_Birmingham wrote:
stujones wrote:
Podmore_Birmingham wrote:For me the worst was Tony Tubbs.

Tom Podmore.
Yes, but you had Larry Holmes as THE champ. This era Klitchsko was supposed to be THE champ.

I suppose Leon Spinks has to mentioned somewhere, and also Ingemar Johannson. However, these beat great fighters to win the title and were impressive in doing so - Klitchsko never beat any great fighter.
Good point.

I was going to say Spinks. I feel sorry for him - people say he wasnt a good boxer - the man won olympic gold for Christ sake.

But he is one of the worst.

Tom Podmore.

Leon Spinks could have been a great IMO, just a case of too much too soon. I know Ali was out of shape and faded in the first match (and the rematch win is one of my favourite fights cause it was Ali at 36 moving like a 30 year old and so fit). However, nobody can call Leon a bad fighter cause he was brilliant in the first fight vs Ali.

That night Leon could have troubled most of the excellent heavyweight champions - its just a shame he went a bit off the rails after it. Loved to have seen the Leon Spinks who beat Ali a few years down the line vs Holmes.

Podmore_Birmingham · Post by **Podmore_Birmingham** » 09 Nov 2005, 08:03

stujones wrote:
Podmore_Birmingham wrote:
stujones wrote: Yes, but you had Larry Holmes as THE champ. This era Klitchsko was supposed to be THE champ.

I suppose Leon Spinks has to mentioned somewhere, and also Ingemar Johannson. However, these beat great fighters to win the title and were impressive in doing so - Klitchsko never beat any great fighter.
Good point.

I was going to say Spinks. I feel sorry for him - people say he wasnt a good boxer - the man won olympic gold for Christ sake.

But he is one of the worst.

Tom Podmore.
Leon Spinks could have been a great IMO, just a case of too much too soon. I know Ali was out of shape and faded in the first match (and the rematch win is one of my favourite fights cause it was Ali at 36 moving like a 30 year old and so fit). However, nobody can call Leon a bad fighter cause he was brilliant in the first fight vs Ali.

That night Leon could have troubled most of the excellent heavyweight champions - its just a shame he went a bit off the rails after it. Loved to have seen the Leon Spinks who beat Ali a few years down the line vs Holmes.

I couldnt agree with you more. Spinks never gets any credit. Drugs ravaged the 80's fighters- the lost generation.

Tom Podmore.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 09 Nov 2005, 08:09

I have said it before, but IMHO, the prevalence of Coke was the downfall of the 80's generation of HW's that had the chance to be everybit as good as the range of the 70's.

There may not have been any to the level of Frazier, Foreman and Ali. But there was certainly everybit as much potential in the second tier with Thomas, Page, Dokes, Witherspoon etc. All of these were schooled in the same gyms as the 70's guys and were, if I am not mistaken, often the sparring partners for them too. But, Money, Coke and Women is a pretty volatile mixture.

Slapsie

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 09 Nov 2005, 08:25

Shame Vitali has had to retire, the Heavyweight division is in even more of a mess for it.

And I was looking forward to Audley Harrison flattening him to claim the title next year

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 09 Nov 2005, 08:48

nickd wrote:Leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth, Klitschko tore Lewis apart for retiring and not giving him a rematch now he has quit without ever having a meaningful title fight and with what will no doubt go down as one of the worst Heavyweight title reigns in history. I have also read reports that Klitschko could have gone ahead with the fight the knee injury was not that serious but he has opted for an operation and retirement instead.

I'd agree with that, worst heavyweight title reign ever. However, this retirement is great for boxing. Now King can go ahead with the tournament the division needs. I wonder if he'll narrow this down to four fighters or whether it will be eight. Eight would be great with each round three months apart meaning we'd have a new undisputed champion by the end of next year. I suppose the eight would have to be solid contenders being Wlad, Brewster, Byrd, Toney & Rahman. That's five. Then you've got the winner of Ruiz-Valeuv, winner of Tua-Brock and probably Sam Peter. This has to happen!

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 09 Nov 2005, 08:50

Vitali could come back to fight the winner of that tournament in early 2007, but by that stage he'll be well past his best so I doubt it would happen.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:09

johnswan1 wrote:
nickd wrote:Leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth, Klitschko tore Lewis apart for retiring and not giving him a rematch now he has quit without ever having a meaningful title fight and with what will no doubt go down as one of the worst Heavyweight title reigns in history. I have also read reports that Klitschko could have gone ahead with the fight the knee injury was not that serious but he has opted for an operation and retirement instead.
I'd agree with that, worst heavyweight title reign ever. However, this retirement is great for boxing. Now King can go ahead with the tournament the division needs. I wonder if he'll narrow this down to four fighters or whether it will be eight. Eight would be great with each round three months apart meaning we'd have a new undisputed champion by the end of next year. I suppose the eight would have to be solid contenders being Wlad, Brewster, Byrd, Toney & Rahman. That's five. Then you've got the winner of Ruiz-Valeuv, winner of Tua-Brock and probably Sam Peter. This has to happen!

Four fighters I reckon, there aren't 8 decent enough King heavies to make the tournament any good.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:15

johnswan1 wrote:
nickd wrote:Leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth, Klitschko tore Lewis apart for retiring and not giving him a rematch now he has quit without ever having a meaningful title fight and with what will no doubt go down as one of the worst Heavyweight title reigns in history. I have also read reports that Klitschko could have gone ahead with the fight the knee injury was not that serious but he has opted for an operation and retirement instead.
I'd agree with that, worst heavyweight title reign ever. However, this retirement is great for boxing. Now King can go ahead with the tournament the division needs. I wonder if he'll narrow this down to four fighters or whether it will be eight. Eight would be great with each round three months apart meaning we'd have a new undisputed champion by the end of next year. I suppose the eight would have to be solid contenders being Wlad, Brewster, Byrd, Toney & Rahman. That's five. Then you've got the winner of Ruiz-Valeuv, winner of Tua-Brock and probably Sam Peter. This has to happen!

The winner of Sam-Maskaev on Sat is the new #1 at the WBC! Don´t forget that.

Yasasin, Sinan

BTW Luan Krasniqi did more to be a contender as e.g. Tua, Brock or Peter.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:15

nickd wrote:
johnswan1 wrote:
nickd wrote:Leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth, Klitschko tore Lewis apart for retiring and not giving him a rematch now he has quit without ever having a meaningful title fight and with what will no doubt go down as one of the worst Heavyweight title reigns in history. I have also read reports that Klitschko could have gone ahead with the fight the knee injury was not that serious but he has opted for an operation and retirement instead.
I'd agree with that, worst heavyweight title reign ever. However, this retirement is great for boxing. Now King can go ahead with the tournament the division needs. I wonder if he'll narrow this down to four fighters or whether it will be eight. Eight would be great with each round three months apart meaning we'd have a new undisputed champion by the end of next year. I suppose the eight would have to be solid contenders being Wlad, Brewster, Byrd, Toney & Rahman. That's five. Then you've got the winner of Ruiz-Valeuv, winner of Tua-Brock and probably Sam Peter. This has to happen!
Four fighters I reckon, there aren't 8 decent enough King heavies to make the tournament any good.

If only four were picked from this lot, the winner of the tournament would not be undisputed. A case could be made for dropping Peter out of it because he has only recently lost to Wlad. The remainder are valid contenders. Which four could you put in? Brewster beat Wlad, Toney beat Ruiz, Wlad beat Byrd and Peter, Byrd beat Tua, Rahman drew with Tua but lost to Ruiz. I think it would have to be eight fighters to ensure all top contenders are included.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:17

Perhaps now that Uncle Tom called Audley Harrison will ascend to the throne....

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:22

Loftgroov wrote:Perhaps now that Uncle Tom called Audley Harrison will ascend to the throne....

I don't like the term Uncle Tom, not a good thing to be posting on here.

If your want to insult someone do it about there boxing skills

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:24

It's only a joke, calm down.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:47

Danny Williams retired klitschko

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 09 Nov 2005, 09:49

REAL_DEAL wrote:Danny Williams retired klitschko

He made more children than belt defenses...

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:19

klitschko comes across as a reasonably intelligent bloke, i mean he can speak five languages or something and as someone who struggles to remember `two beers` and `where`s the bog`s` out of his spanish handbook every summer i can admire him for that.
i think some fighters when they get to a certain level start to look at their legacy or their place in history within the sport, i think the likes of lewis and RJJ were well aware of this quite early into their career`s.
i dont think klitschko see`s boxing as his chance to write his name in the history books, i think he see`s politics as his niche in life and i think he just wants out of boxing with a few quid and a reputation as a sportsman.
he`s a talented athlete and a decent fighter but i dont think he was ever prepared to risk everything he has for boxing, i couldnt see him as a evander holyfield type who despite earning the riches of solomon still fights to the detriment of his health because by nature that`s what evander is, a fighter, and despite vitali`s gutsy showing against lewis i dont think klitschko ever was a warrior in the duran / holyfield mould and in fact i think the idea of losing brain cells by fighting longer than absolutely neccessary terrifies him.
i dont think he`s too bothered if a few hundred thousand boxing hacks, historians and fans rate his reign in comparison with ingemar johansons or with the plethora of dope heads from the early 80`s just as long as a few hundred million people on earth remember him as a heavyweight champion of the world. lets face it, the average man in the street probably couldnt give a shite that klitschko dodged rahman.
he seemed to take an active role in the `orange` revolution in his homeland and was a speaker at the demo`s against the government and maybe he thinks he can change his country or the world for the better, who knows? i get the sense with klitschko that boxing is going to be just another chapter in the story of his life rather than the plot of the whole book.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:25

headhunter wrote:klitschko comes across as a reasonably intelligent bloke, i mean he can speak five languages or something and as someone who struggles to remember `two beers` and `where`s the bog`s` out of his spanish handbook every summer i can admire him for that.
i think some fighters when they get to a certain level start to look at their legacy or their place in history within the sport, i think the likes of lewis and RJJ were well aware of this quite early into their career`s.
i dont think klitschko see`s boxing as his chance to write his name in the history books, i think he see`s politics as his niche in life and i think he just wants out of boxing with a few quid and a reputation as a sportsman.
he`s a talented athlete and a decent fighter but i dont think he was ever prepared to risk everything he has for boxing, i couldnt see him as a evander holyfield type who despite earning the riches of solomon still fights to the detriment of his health because by nature thats what evander is, a fighter,
i dont think he`s too bothered if a few hundred thousand boxing writers historians and fans rate his reign in comparison with ingemar johansons or with the plethora of dope heads from the early 80`s just as long as a few hundred million people on earth remember him as a heavyweight champion of the world. he seemed to take an active role in the `orange` revolution in his homeland and was a speaker at the demo`s against the government and maybe he thinks he can change his country or the world for the better, who knows? i get the sense with klitschko that boxing is going to be just another chapter in the story of his life rather than the plot of the whole book.

good post

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:37

According the Radio Five Live Rahman has been installed as the new WBC champion, Don King is claiming Klitschko was "running scared". I like Headhunter's post though, i don't think Klitschko sees Boxing as the beginning and end of his life like some Boxers do, he probably has plenty of other stuff to do to keep himself busy.

states · Post by **states** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:42

Yep, nice post Headhunter.

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:43

Shocking stuff. I have a great fear the winner of this Don King tournament will be John Ruiz. Lets hope Valuev stops this notion.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:01

Both Klitschkos are not the typical boxers who are underpriviliged and fought themselves to the top in order to earn money like e.g. a guy like Brewster represents. They are too intelligent to risk their lives and health.

Regarding the achievement of Vitali ther is to say that he he also was the WBO champ and had a great comeback after 2 severe injuries. I just think he doesn´t want to do it a second time. Vitali is a fair sportsman who always handled his opponents with respect. So I give him respect for what he has achieved. He won´t be an all-time-great but of course a number 3 or 4 in an all-time-european-list in Heavyweight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:22

BubiScholz wrote:
headhunter wrote:klitschko comes across as a reasonably intelligent bloke, i mean he can speak five languages or something and as someone who struggles to remember `two beers` and `where`s the bog`s` out of his spanish handbook every summer i can admire him for that.
i think some fighters when they get to a certain level start to look at their legacy or their place in history within the sport, i think the likes of lewis and RJJ were well aware of this quite early into their career`s.
i dont think klitschko see`s boxing as his chance to write his name in the history books, i think he see`s politics as his niche in life and i think he just wants out of boxing with a few quid and a reputation as a sportsman.
he`s a talented athlete and a decent fighter but i dont think he was ever prepared to risk everything he has for boxing, i couldnt see him as a evander holyfield type who despite earning the riches of solomon still fights to the detriment of his health because by nature thats what evander is, a fighter,
i dont think he`s too bothered if a few hundred thousand boxing writers historians and fans rate his reign in comparison with ingemar johansons or with the plethora of dope heads from the early 80`s just as long as a few hundred million people on earth remember him as a heavyweight champion of the world. he seemed to take an active role in the `orange` revolution in his homeland and was a speaker at the demo`s against the government and maybe he thinks he can change his country or the world for the better, who knows? i get the sense with klitschko that boxing is going to be just another chapter in the story of his life rather than the plot of the whole book.
good post

Yes I agree, I doubt boxing is the be all and end all of his life. However, I still think it's a bit rich him calling 40 year old Lennox a coward when he is retiring himself at 34 due to injuries.

Vitali was keen to fight old man Lewis, because he saw it as an opportunity to knock of a past it champ and gain credibility. So he obviously wanted the plaudits pretty badly.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 09 Nov 2005, 11:31

I think it is too easy to go the other way though, Bubi.

While I acknowledge that VK and WK are smart guys and concerned to have a healthy life outside boxing, there is also an element where they need to show heart and courage.

I am not talking about the decision to retire. That is, palpably an undisputable medical issue. I am talking about something more ferral than that. It can go overboard too far the other way too with fighters like Holyfield being too brave for their own good, but I think the K's are at the other polar extreme. Too wary and analytical for their own good or that of the sport.

A good balance for me is someone like Hagler. Fought the best, beat the best got out with body, soul and wallet intact. Lewis, to a lesser extent is in the same category.

I wonder how the contribution of the K's to the sport is going to be viewed compared to its contribution to their bank balances.

In Euro terms, certainly a top five. But that's not saying much.

Slapsie

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 09 Nov 2005, 12:01

I can see Vitali getting back in the ring if his brother Wlad gets wacked out by Rahman

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 09 Nov 2005, 15:11

Vluev we beat Ruiz imo.

If he injured I dont see anything wrong in his decision, just shocked.
As for Rahman champion!