Cassius Marcellus Clay '1963'

[gilgamesh]

So now he was an Uncle Tom?

[gilgamesh]

So now he was an Uncle Tom?

I believe the term 'Uncle Tom' is a what black people use to describe another black person
who sells out to the white man, to benefit himself.

Not sure that that has to do with Cassius Clay, as he was always his own man and made it
completely on his own without the help of others.

Your original post says the exact opposite of that.

"Backed by the Louisville Sponsoring Group, a wealthy Group of '11' Kentucky
white businessmen, and headed by the 'well to do and 'connected' Bill Faversham Jr."


"At this time in America, a strong drive was happening throughout the South, and
instead of participating, Young Cassius headed out to Hollywood, to rub elbows with
all the 'celebrities' with the goal to enhance his career."

"The observers view was, that if it didn't benefit Cassius Clay, he was not interested."

Perhaps, you're not saying he was an Uncle Tom, but you're saying he could give a sh*t about all the Civil Rights battles that were going on at the time it seems. Which while it may not be saying he was an "Uncle Tom" exactly, it's in the same ballpark.

At any rate, it's yet another post about Ali meant to cast him in a negative light.

[gilgamesh]

Alright well you tell me then. What were you trying to say with this thread? What was your point?

[gilgamesh]

That in 1963,

Cassius Clay, loved being Cassius Clay.

Until, the United States Selective Service came-a-knocking.

September 1963

Bill Faversham - 'That's all right, we'll ask for a 'deferment'. We will have to work quickly
to secure a Championship Bout with Sonny Liston.'

Cassius Clay, 'It's not fair. If I don't get a Championship Bout quickly, I'll have to waist 2-Years
in the Army, and I will never get a chance when I come out in 1965. This Army and Government
stuff is ruining all my plans.'

Where exactly are you getting these quotes from Faversham and Clay?

[gilgamesh]

Mr. Gilga-Mesh,

William Faversham made that statement inearly- November 1963, right after Cassius Clay had
signed a contract to face Sonny Liston in February 1964.

Cassius had received a letter from the United States Selective Service, which required him to
have a 'Physical Exam' from the United States Military on November 21, 1963.

The letter also stated that Mr. Clay, upon passing the examination, would be eligible to be called
for 'possible' Duty within '21-Days'.

William Faversham stated that he would ask for a deferment, which he expected would be approved.

What's your source for the quotes? I don't care when they were supposedly made.

[gilgamesh]

Mr. Gilga-Mesh,

William Faversham made that statement in early- November 1963, right after Cassius Clay had
signed a contract to face Sonny Liston in February 1964.

Cassius had received a letter from the United States Selective Service, which required him to
have a 'Physical Exam' from the United States Military on November 21, 1963.

The letter also stated that Mr. Clay, upon passing the examination, would be eligible to be called
for 'possible' Duty within '21-Days'.

William Faversham stated that he would ask for a deferment, which he expected would be approved.

For Your Information,

William Faversham was Cassius Clay's 'Manager of Record', and the head man of LSG {Louisville
Sponsoring Group}

As for connections and influence, Mr. Faversham was a 'full' Colonel in the United States Air Force, and
had the power to yield influence at the Selective Service Board, which kept 'Young Cassius' out from
being inducted for Military Service for 3 years.

When Cassius Clay {Muhammad Ali} dumped the LSG Management Team in October 1966, the 'new'
Muhammad Ali 'stabbed Mr. Faversham and his Partners in the back'.

A few months later, the United States Selective Service 'came-a-knocking'.

Pay Back is a Bitch.

I'll post the AP Report for you to view...

Alright then.

[klompton]

broken record

[BoxBuzz]

Your judging the mans "heart" here. You are attempting to discern if he was disingenuous in his "aha" moment when he determined to himself that he was a "changed man".

This is sacred territory of the psyche in my humble opinion. You (or I) simply can not know this thing.

Not even his behavior would be "evidence" of duplicity. Because anyone going through something like this would be riddled with ambivalence. To leave one set of values for another is HUGE in a person's life, and leaves much in the way of pain, confliction, and moments of regret along with pulses of energized and faith filled renewal. Not unlike going through the death of a loved one. Your old life is to be "left behind".

It's a very assumptive place to wander with clumsy questions and accusatory rhetoric.

Life was going on around him, he inherited the consequences of all his actions from before...and after such an "aha".

How do you know your daddy is your daddy? For the most part...because your mamma told you so.

Some things need to be taken at a person's word, despite the difficulty a man may have of navigating his way toward an integrated fidelity.

[gilgamesh]

Your judging the mans "heart" here. You are attempting to discern if he was disingenuous in his "aha" moment when he determined to himself that he was a "changed man".

This is sacred territory of the psyche in my humble opinion. You (or I) simply can not know this thing.

Not even his behavior would be "evidence" of duplicity. Because anyone going through something like this would be riddled with ambivalence. To leave one set of values for another is HUGE in a person's life, and leaves much in the way of pain, confliction, and moments of regret along with pulses of energized and faith filled renewal. Not unlike going through the death of a loved one. Your old life is to be "left behind".

It's a very assumptive place to wander with clumsy questions and accusatory rhetoric.

Life was going on around him, he inherited the consequences of all his actions from before...and after such an "aha".

How do you know your daddy is your daddy? For the most part...because your mamma told you so.

Some things need to be taken at a person's word, despite the difficulty a man may have of navigating his way toward an integrated fidelity.

Great post

[klompton]

Where is the actual report. Quote the name and date of the newspaper. Otherwise its obvious you are lying.

[klompton]

You mean this article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

Which doesnt have those quotes? Provide us with a link or stop lying.

[klompton]

Then post the complete report or I will assume as usual that you are making it up as you go along. Like you did with that fake "unpublished" interview with Ali from SI that you had to admit you made up.

[klompton]

Then post it. I'll stop flinging disparaging remarks when you stop lying.

Did Ali or did he not preach and act in a ministerial capacity for the Nation of Islam? I know for a fact he did because I have footage of him doing so on several occasions for several years. Whos flinging disparaging comments. Irregardless of that verifiable fact (something you seem devoid of being able to produce) Can anyone blame Ali's handlers for trying to keep him from being shelved when he was on the verge of a title shot? You are managing a bankable fighter who is on the verge of sports biggest prize and you are just going to sit by and let the opportunity pass him by so he can make a civil services wage? GTFO!

Also, the idea that you floated that they somehow avoided Chuvalo at this time because he would have been too rough and tough for Ali: So they avoided Chuvalo because he was too good and instead went and fought Liston, I guess you think Liston was a lesser opponent than the one dimensional, plodding, face first Chuvalo? They also offered to fight Bob Cleroux who was a better fighter than Chuvalo in every regard but Cleroux's people didnt want to have anything to do with that fight. They were hardly avoiding people of Chuvalo's calibre, particularly in light of going after the most feared fighter on the planet.

[BoxBuzz]

Il Duce, Are you saying that Clay was not sincere? As I recall you denied you were being judgmental.
It is a matter of record that he was acting in a ministerial capacity.

I'm having a hard time resolving these chronic conflictions of yours. May I safely assume that you are being "highly subjective"? Vs my take which would be "inanely insidious". lol.

If so no problem. Just present yourself thusly. Or the "folks" will be all confused. It appears that Klompton has your number on this.

[gilgamesh]

Il Duce, Are you saying that Clay was not sincere? As I recall you denied you were being judgmental.
It is a matter of record that he was acting in a ministerial capacity.

I'm having a hard time resolving these chronic conflictions of yours. May I safely assume that you are being "highly subjective"? Vs my take which would be "inanely insidious". lol.

If so no problem. Just present yourself thusly. Or the "folks" will be all confused. It appears that Klompton has your number on this.

I was calling for proof of his statements earlier in the thread as well, he still hasn't produced it.

[klompton]

No the fact is that Ali was a minister. You realize Louis Farrakhan was a minister at just 23 right? Warith Deen Mohammed who served 14 months in jail for refusing to be inducted into the vietnam war was a minister even younger than that. You dont know what the hell you are talking about. There were plenty more young men who were ministers during this period as Elijah Muhammad extended the influence of the NOI. Ali was an important part of that spread.

Where is the link with the quote you promised.

[Bobbyptsd]

Mr Il Duce:

You are full of shiit.

Best regards,

Mr. Bobbyptsd

P.S: His name is Muhammad Ali, and yes he "existed" in 1963, we've been over this absurdity.

[funso banjo baby]

i guess some people still just see cassius clay the black man


il duce your posts are literally the biggest waste of time ever on boxrec.....and thats saying something




congratulations

[klompton]

Mr Il Duce:

You are full of shiit.

Best regards,

Mr. Bobbyptsd

P.S: His name is Muhammad Ali, and yes he "existed" in 1963, we've been over this absurdity.

I got this album for Christmas in 1963........

You mean Cassius Clay was a fraud....

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/defaul ... k=CiMVgMEt

For the 1 millionth time you refuse to back up these quotes with a verifiable source. Typical. Whats the point of wasting your time and ours making this horseshit up?

[Bobbyptsd]

I'm not clicking on any mystery link, so I'll just repeat that his name is Muhammad Ali, as you well know anyway.

[funso banjo baby]

il duce

[gilgamesh]

Soon he's gonna tell us Ali doesn't have Parkinson's, he's been faking it for years to play off of people's sympathy.

[klompton]

Source or STFU

[klompton]

Yes, you keep saying that. Where are these links that have those quotes. What are the specific, verifiable papers that printed these specific, verifiable quotes. Why do you keep dancing around that? Or maybe youve figured out that Ive already looked at a wide variety of magazines and newspapers before calling you out on this and know that you cant reproduce one. Would you like to just come right out and admit what everyone else here should know by now: That you made those quotes up like you always do?

[funso banjo baby]

il duce couldnt carry enoch powell's jockstrap