Joe Louis vs.............

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Nov 2005, 20:31

george foreman

joe frazier

mike tyson

lennox lewis

jack dempsey

sonny liston

my picks- where talking a PEAK joe louis

louis KO 5 foreman

louis TKO 9 frazier

joe louis KO 7 lennox lewis

joe louis KO 3 jack dempsey

joe louis TKO 6 sonny liston

joe louis TKO 4 mike tyson

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 08 Nov 2005, 21:34

vs Foreman. Foreman KO 3
vs Frazier. Louis W15 very close
vs Tyson Tyson KO 4
vs Lewis Lewis KO 7
vs Dempsey Louis W15
vs Liston Louis KO 10

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 08 Nov 2005, 21:45

A peak Foreman and a peak Dempsey are the only two on the list that I think could stand a chance of beating Louis. If Lennox Lewis showed up at his very best he would have a chance too...of course with Lewis it's just as likely that the guy who fought Mercer or Briggs shows up. Frazier, Liston, and Tyson all had similar, swarming styles which I think Joe would have handled pretty well. Louis always seemed to have more trouble with guys that could box than with pure sluggers in his prime.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 08 Nov 2005, 22:29

i think a peak joe louis beats everyone on this list. i dont care how much bigger the other guy is, he didnt hit much harder then joe.. the only guy i could see giving louis a problem is dempsey..maybe tyson..but id comfortably take louis over all of these fighters.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 08 Nov 2005, 22:42

vs. George Foreman: I think clumsy old George plods forewards and hurts Louis on occassion, but runs out of gas after the sixth and Louis pummels him for a KO in round 9. Louis ahead 5-3 (x3) after eight.

vs. Joe Frazier: Tough pick. I think Joe may be too much for Louis, so I'll go with Frazier by a razor-thin split decision in 15. The scores: 9-6, 8-7 Frazier, 8-7 Louis.

vs. Mike Tyson: Louis will go down in the first and maybe second, but he always got up early. Tyson runs out of options and Louis turns up the heat the second half. "The Brown Bomber" wins by a KO in round 12. Scores after 11: Louis ahead 6-5 twice and 7-4.

vs. Lennox Lewis: My gut says Lewis is too big and too strong. Through 10, it is similar to Lewis-Holyfield II and Lewis-Mercer, but the weaker chin of Louis gives out late (ala Louis-Schmeling I). Lennox Lewis eventually overpowers Joe and scores a knockout in round 13. Scores at time of KO: 8-4 Lennox Lewis.

vs. Jack Dempsey: This would be a fight for the ages. Louis is a little too refined for Dempsey, but Dempsey would make up for that gap with savagery, punching power, and resilience. Louis tastes the canvas in the third and fifth and Dempsey goes down in the tenth. In the end, Louis wins a close fifteen-round decision over Dempsey, along the lines of 9-6 twice and 8-7.

vs. Sonny Liston: My heart says Liston by knockout, but my brain does not agree. Liston storms out early, similar to Tyson and has success with his longer jab. Somewhere along the line, the will of Louis will overpower Liston's lesser mental state when the bout turns into a war. Liston was tough and rarely went down in his prime, so he retains his pride as Louis wins via TKO in round 10. Louis ahead 6-3 all.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 08 Nov 2005, 22:45

you say lewis was to big n strong, yet foreman and tyson are not?

and i dont think frazier has enough boxing SKILL to take louis 15 rounds i think 1 of these guys is going down..more likely frazier imo

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 08 Nov 2005, 23:07

Rory McCloskey wrote:you say lewis was to big n strong, yet foreman and tyson are not?

and i dont think frazier has enough boxing SKILL to take louis 15 rounds i think 1 of these guys is going down..more likely frazier imo

Foreman and Tyson had poor stamina and were not as intelligent in the ring as Lewis. Also, Lewis used his size to his advantage and had one of the best jabs in heavyweight history. Tyson was a small heavyweight who would be shorter than Louis and barely heavier in weight. He was also fairly one dimensional.

Foreman in the 70s was a highly overrated heavyweight who made terrible mistakes. Watch his fights right before he won the title, like against Ted Gullick and Miguel Angel Paez. After he lost the title in 74, he looked like an amateur against Ron Lyle and Jimmy Young. Yes, his strength was huge. But he had too many flaws for a fighter like Joe Louis.

Joe Frazier was a great pressure fighter who could resort to more than just straightforward brawling. He also took a great shot and would have done better against Foreman both times if he didn't try to fight Foreman back when he was hurt. Louis is a different fighter than Foreman, though, and I see Frazier coming out on top in that mythical match up.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 08 Nov 2005, 23:22

i think it is crazy to call tyson a small heavyweight. he was JACKED he wasnt very tall but he is huge. foreman and tyson knew how to use their power to their advantage, and i wouldnt say lewis had considerably better stamina than tyson or foreman...

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 08 Nov 2005, 23:24

and im not doubting that foreman had to many flaws for louis, i beleive louis beats them all.. but i think a prime foreman and a prime tyson both beat a prime lewis. lewis is a greatly overrated heavyweight IO, his "win" over evander is questionable.. he lost to rock and vitali.. his win over tyson is an absolute joke. hes a good fighter, but overrated IMo i would put him in my top 20 but not 15

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 09 Nov 2005, 00:04

Schmeling, Braddock, Galento and Buddy Baer all managed to catch Louis with big punches. Galento in fact who was only 5-9 hurt Louis in the first and floored him in the 3rd. If pudgy Tony Galento could do that to the Brown Bomber in his prime, just imagine what Mike Tyson who punched alot faster, harder and more accurate than those guys, would have done. The first time he floored or hurt Louis he'd be on him like a shark in a feeding frenzy. JL wouldn't survive a Tyson onslaught.

Foreman didn't have Tyson's handspeed, but the guy who destroyed Frazier and Norton would have simply overwhelmed Louis and never let him off the hook when he hurt him.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 09 Nov 2005, 01:05

evndrbsn wrote:vs. George Foreman: I think clumsy old George plods forewards and hurts Louis on occassion, but runs out of gas after the sixth and Louis pummels him for a KO in round 9. Louis ahead 5-3 (x3) after eight.

vs. Joe Frazier: Tough pick. I think Joe may be too much for Louis, so I'll go with Frazier by a razor-thin split decision in 15. The scores: 9-6, 8-7 Frazier, 8-7 Louis.

vs. Mike Tyson: Louis will go down in the first and maybe second, but he always got up early. Tyson runs out of options and Louis turns up the heat the second half. "The Brown Bomber" wins by a KO in round 12. Scores after 11: Louis ahead 6-5 twice and 7-4.

vs. Lennox Lewis: My gut says Lewis is too big and too strong. Through 10, it is similar to Lewis-Holyfield II and Lewis-Mercer, but the weaker chin of Louis gives out late (ala Louis-Schmeling I). Lennox Lewis eventually overpowers Joe and scores a knockout in round 13. Scores at time of KO: 8-4 Lennox Lewis.

vs. Jack Dempsey: This would be a fight for the ages. Louis is a little too refined for Dempsey, but Dempsey would make up for that gap with savagery, punching power, and resilience. Louis tastes the canvas in the third and fifth and Dempsey goes down in the tenth. In the end, Louis wins a close fifteen-round decision over Dempsey, along the lines of 9-6 twice and 8-7.

vs. Sonny Liston: My heart says Liston by knockout, but my brain does not agree. Liston storms out early, similar to Tyson and has success with his longer jab. Somewhere along the line, the will of Louis will overpower Liston's lesser mental state when the bout turns into a war. Liston was tough and rarely went down in his prime, so he retains his pride as Louis wins via TKO in round 10. Louis ahead 6-3 all.

LOL, Louis was twice fighter of Ray Mercer, much faster, in MUCH better condition, much more versatile, better defensively. If Mercer and a completly past it Evander trouble Lewis greatly, Louis side-swipes him.

Joe KO 4.

Foreman . . Louis had the perfect style to counter those wild lunges and send George into next week.

Galento hurt Louis? Have you seen the fight . . .Louis gets caught flush, goes down, and then proceeds to make Tony wish that was the last thing he'd ever done. And Galento, while not mr. muscle, was a HUGE puncher. Many who saw him and later saw other punchers such as Tyson, Foreman etc. say his left hook was TOPS. He was basically the 1930s white Sam Peter, more tubby but actually BETTER stamina. That fight if anything shows Louis's chin, not his lack of one.

I would make Louis a clear favorite over all of these opponents save Dempsey and Liston. Liston's jab, head movement against the jab, and whiskers would really trouble him, and Dempsey was the ultimate pressure fighter-fast with two-fisted power.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 09 Nov 2005, 01:37

dempseyfire wrote: LOL, Louis was twice fighter of Ray Mercer, much faster, in MUCH better condition, much more versatile, better defensively. If Mercer and a completly past it Evander trouble Lewis greatly, Louis side-swipes him.

Joe KO 4.

Foreman . . Louis had the perfect style to counter those wild lunges and send George into next week.

Galento hurt Louis? Have you seen the fight . . .Louis gets caught flush, goes down, and then proceeds to make Tony wish that was the last thing he'd ever done. And Galento, while not mr. muscle, was a HUGE puncher. Many who saw him and later saw other punchers such as Tyson, Foreman etc. say his left hook was TOPS. He was basically the 1930s white Sam Peter, more tubby but actually BETTER stamina. That fight if anything shows Louis's chin, not his lack of one.

I would make Louis a clear favorite over all of these opponents save Dempsey and Liston. Liston's jab, head movement against the jab, and whiskers would really trouble him, and Dempsey was the ultimate pressure fighter-fast with two-fisted power.

I didn't say a word about Tony Galento. That was Seamus.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 09 Nov 2005, 02:05

Frazier by a razor-thin split decision in 15

no way, frazier was made for louis

Louis TKO 5 Frazier. Frazier threw punches at the perfect range for Louis to counter. He would get close, throw and then be punished.

- louis had an advantage in every category almost and had just as good left hook as frazier

look what ron lyle did to foreman whose a poor mans joe louis.

The slow, wide swinging Foreman, beat Louis? Never. Louis blasts Foreman down the middle and beats him to the punch with his perfect straight right, time and time again. Foreman's jab and reflexes are too slow to trouble Louis, who was the jabber.Foreman eventually crumbles.

a peak joe louis beats everyone in history IMO

- lennox lewis is tailor made for joe louis.

Louis was at his best against large targets. Lewis would be easy for The Bomber to hit. Lennox is too big to run away from Joe and he his head is straight up and there is no escaping Louis blazing quick counters with his pinpoint punching accuracy. Lewis chin will not stand up to one of Louis bonecrushing speed bombs.

Louis Ko 7

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 09 Nov 2005, 02:20

..didn't even read the list and don't know who's on it....but the answer is joe louis by kayo.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 09 Nov 2005, 02:52

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
a peak joe louis beats everyone in history IMO

Joe Louis '38 vs. Ali '67. Who do you like and why? I take 'Cassius Clay' over 15 by a competitive but clear cut decision.

A different fight, but an interesting one: Holmes '83 vs. Riddick Bowe '92. Battle of the torpedo jabs. I think Holmes by decision, based on work ethic, but Bowe has his moments and shakes up Larry more than once.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 09 Nov 2005, 03:04

i think louis beats ali, but its the only fight im not 100% confident about and could go either way

-- but i have no doubt louis knocks out all the guys on my list

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 09 Nov 2005, 03:28

Some old-timers apparently weren't all that impressed with Louis. You seem to think that Louis demolishes all the fighters of later eras (despite athletes showing improvement over their predecessors in numerous sports) whos to say that pre-Louis fighters like Fitzsimmons woulden't demolish the brown bomber?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 09 Nov 2005, 05:30

Of the fighters listed I'd say Joe's easiest night would be against Foreman and his toughest night against Liston or maybe Lewis.

Foreman would be consistently beaten to the punch and Joe would have him out of there.

Frazier, Tyson and Dempsey would all go to Joe and he'd slowly unpick them with his left hand and then bring on hs combinations. The only problem is that Joe could be dropped. I know he always got up to dish it out but if these guys drop you the onslaught is furious. We are talking about 3 of the ebst finishers in the history of boxing. It's a bit different to getting dropped by Galento. overall though I make Joe favourite against all 3.

Liston and Lewis have the jab and the right hand to seriously trouble Joe. I think their styles make it a ahrd night for Louis. I'd still expect him to win these fights but they owuld be very close.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 09 Nov 2005, 05:53

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: a peak joe louis beats everyone in history IMO

how would you see a fight between him and a prime ali happening?

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:03

thunderfromdownunder wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote: a peak joe louis beats everyone in history IMO
how would you see a fight between him and a prime ali happening?

he says so a few posts back but Id say Louis beats Ali with a late KO. But that is totally my opinion because Ali could get a decision if his great chin wasnt obliterated. Prime Louis as Brokton mentioned, beats any boxer to ever put on gloves. I start my all time HW list like this...

1. Joe Louis

1a.Muhammed Ali

theone · Post by **theone** » 09 Nov 2005, 10:50

Except for Dempsey and maybe Liston, I say everyone on that list beats Loius by ko. Too slow of foot and weak of chin to handle any of those guys.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 09 Nov 2005, 14:56

theone wrote:Except for Dempsey and maybe Liston, I say everyone on that list beats Loius by ko. Too slow of foot and weak of chin to handle any of those guys.

louis did not have a weak chin, it took schmeling who was rated 42 on RINGS TOP 100 GREATEST PUNCHERS 12 rounds of flush right hands to finally put louis away. Nat Fleischer in the Aug. 1936 Ring Magazine commenting on Louis loss wrote, "Louis at least answered the critics who said he couldn't take a punch. He took it, and how! He absorbed enough punishment to have laid low the average pugilist a half dozen times. Staggered time and again, he kept on his feet and fought back..."

The Bomber has been degraded by some fans as having a "weak chin". This is simply not true. This argument can be made against virtually anyone. lennx lewis was knocked out by oliver mccail and hasim rahman, NEVER getting off the floor to win a fight. liston was knocked down by 180lb marty marshall, knocked out by one punch from ali, and later knocked out cold by leotis martin. foreman was knocked out by ali, floored twice by lyle, and floored by light hitting jimmy young. frazier was KD by oscar bonavena twice and michael bruce. tyson was decked by douglas and holyfield.

Max Baer, who hit hard enough to send two men to an early grave, hit Joe with some of his hardest punches. Louis took them easily.

many critics harp on louis slow footwork and say it as a big flaw which IMO is far from the truth. Joe was a master of distance and deception. Louis used his footwork to put subtle pressure on his opponent’s and then would take small steps back to draw his opponents into him. By pressing forward he would close the distance and then by stepping back Louis would appear vulnerable, but when his opponent’s moved in they were setting themselves up for his lethal counterpunches.

louis would stalk you, and wait and try to draw you in, and then counter.

- liston was just like louis, a stalker. but liston lacked the handspeed and accuracy louis had with his combinations.

- louis would counter inside foremans haymakers with lethal fast deadly combinations

- frazier would play right into louis and i dont see how he could survive a slug out with louis

give me explaintions "the one" has to how louis would lose to any one of them.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 09 Nov 2005, 15:35

My two cents:

TKO 6 Foreman
TK0 10 Frazier
KO 8 Tyson
KO 2 Lewis
TKO 4 Dempsey
W15 over Liston (10-5)

JC · Post by JC » 09 Nov 2005, 15:37

Rory McCloskey wrote:.he(lewis) lost to rock and vitali..

No he didn't,

whether he is overrated or not he did not lose to Vitali.

I'm not trying to pick an arguement at all mate. Vitali fought a good fight vs Lewis and took some big shots...but he still lost on cuts. At the time of stoppage there were six rounds left nobody can say what would have happend.

JC · Post by JC » 09 Nov 2005, 15:38

I'd probably pick Louis for all of the above, but there all such talented fighters I don't think any of them are certainties.

Joe Louis vs.............

Joe Louis vs.............

Louis vs pre-Louis heavyweights