Is Roberto Duran Excused His Losses?

[elmersalsa]

Is not that he was excused of his losses. The facts were there. In his prime, he lost to Esteban DeJesus. That was a LEGIT LOSS NO MATTER WHAT. That was the great Roberto Duran at his great prime.

Every fighter loses. Well, almost all of them. In my case, which I am a Duran's fan in this forum, I cannot accept the fact that some of the posters write about, especially after the "No Mas" fight. They will say that the great Sugar Ray Leonard "did not fight the right fight" in the first fight, but, then they do not want to acknowledge that in the second fight Duran was pretty much out of sync, when in the first fight, Duran showed all his great abilities.

After that, Duran was not even the same fighter he was in the 70s. Of course, every fighter has a prime and a time. It happens to everybody. You cannot expect to dominate forever. The same happened to the great Muhammad Ali. In his prime, he was invincible, just like Duran. And we all know why he lost to the Ken Nortons, Joe Fraziers, Jimmy Youngs and Leon Spinks of the world in the 70s. The question is, would those fighters beat Ali in Ali's prime in the 60s? Maybe yes, maybe not. The difference between Ali and Duran was that Ali did not had to move up on weight to fight EXCEPTIONAL GIFTED FIGHTERS, while Duran had to do that.

The same question could be said about Duran. Would the greats Thomas Hearns, Wilfred Benitez and Sugar Ray Leonards of the world beat Duran at his very best? At the same weight class that Duran can handle? In his prime? They beat him, yes they did, but not at his very best.

Other else than that, Duran accomplishments overshadow the Leonards, Benitez and Hearns. That was a hell of a career he had.

[King Carlos]

Nothing Duran could do, win or lose, at 154 or 160 would constitute him at his best. That's simply a fact.

But you could say the same for Benitez.

Like fornicate you can. Benitez looked as good as ever there.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

My main memory from that fight was how every magazine said it was a disgrace that Duran was still being allowed to box. The commentator, probably Reg Gutteridge (one of the greats), saying how Roberto should retire.

Duran had neither the industry (like he used to have) or the pop in his shots to really impose himself.

Weird, it was a razor close fight that could have gone either way.

[elmersalsa]

When I saw of he beat Iran Barkley, I said to myself that it was unbelievable. A washed up fighter in a weight class too big for him, being 37 years old beat a younger and stronger fighter than he for his 4th world crown. The great trainer Gil Clancy said in that fight:" This guy Duran got to be one of the greatest fighters that ever lived" and to me, he was right.

[elmersalsa]

My main memory from that fight was how every magazine said it was a disgrace that Duran was still being allowed to box. The commentator, probably Reg Gutteridge (one of the greats), saying how Roberto should retire.

Duran had neither the industry (like he used to have) or the pop in his shots to really impose himself.

The fight could have gone either way. But I believe that the powers of the judges, did not want to see Duran fight anymore after he got decapitated by the great Thomas Hearns. By 1986, he was finished by the media. Yeah, he had one last hurrah with Iran Barkley. That is remarkable. I remember that fight with Robbie Sims. Sims had a black eye even though he won. Duran looked like the winner. I also wanted him to retire after the Sims fight. But he kept going.

[keithmoonhangover]

So in your eyes the Hearns fight lowers Duran's all time standing? We obviously rate fighters completely different. Hell, I rate plenty of losses over wins.

The bottom line is.... if Duran had knocked Hearns out in the second round, Duran's all-time standing would have improved.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Of course it would, just like Tommy's was. In other news, the sky is blue.

[keithmoonhangover]

Of course it would, just like Tommy's was. In other news, the sky is blue.

Do you think the loss to Hearns had no effect on Duran's standing?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Of course it would, just like Tommy's was. In other news, the sky is blue.

Do you think the loss to Hearns had no effect on Duran's standing?

I already told you I don't think it did. I guess it needs repeating, great fighters reach a point where their current standing is etched in stone and they can only go higher. If Leonard would have been destroyed by hagler it wouldn't have taken anything away from what he'd already accomplished, obviously beating him enhanced it, losing wouldn't have dropped him an inch.

[keithmoonhangover]

Of course it would, just like Tommy's was. In other news, the sky is blue.

Do you think the loss to Hearns had no effect on Duran's standing?

I already told you I don't think it did. I guess it needs repeating, great fighters reach a point where their current standing is etched in stone and they can only go higher. If Leonard would have been destroyed by hagler it wouldn't have taken anything away from what he'd already accomplished, obviously beating him enhanced it, losing wouldn't have dropped him an inch.

[keithmoonhangover]

Of course it would, just like Tommy's was. In other news, the sky is blue.

Do you think the loss to Hearns had no effect on Duran's standing?

I already told you I don't think it did. I guess it needs repeating, great fighters reach a point where their current standing is etched in stone and they can only go higher. If Leonard would have been destroyed by hagler it wouldn't have taken anything away from what he'd already accomplished, obviously beating him enhanced it, losing wouldn't have dropped him an inch.

When did Duran reach this 'point', in your opinion? Was it before or after he quit in the Leonard rematch?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Do you think the loss to Hearns had no effect on Duran's standing?

I already told you I don't think it did. I guess it needs repeating, great fighters reach a point where their current standing is etched in stone and they can only go higher. If Leonard would have been destroyed by hagler it wouldn't have taken anything away from what he'd already accomplished, obviously beating him enhanced it, losing wouldn't have dropped him an inch.

When did Duran reach this 'point', in your opinion? Was it before or after he quit in the Leonard rematch?

I already addressed that as well. Odd that with such a fulfilling life you treasure trolling me.

[keithmoonhangover]

Odd that with such a fulfilling life you treasure trolling me.

It's odd that your should treasure me treasuring you.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Odd that with such a fulfilling life you treasure trolling me.

It's odd that your should treasure me treasuring you.

That's illiterate, your trolling doesn't affect me one way or the other. If stalking me brings you joy, good for you.

[keithmoonhangover]

Odd that with such a fulfilling life you treasure trolling me.

It's odd that your should treasure me treasuring you.

That's illiterate, your trolling doesn't affect me one way or the other. If stalking me brings you joy, good for you.

1. It was supposed to be illiterate.

2. It brings me about as much pleasure as you get in bed every night.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It's odd that your should treasure me treasuring you.

That's illiterate, your trolling doesn't affect me one way or the other. If stalking me brings you joy, good for you.

1. It was supposed to be illiterate.

2. It brings me about as much pleasure as you get in bed every night.

[Hairy Arse]

I just don't accept the excuse that he was somehow unmotivated and didn't prepare properly when it came to fighting the likes of Leonard, Benitez and Hearns. Unlike the likes of Batten and Laing (fights in which he was visibly bloated for) he knew what these guys were all about, knew their styles and knew what beating them would have meant.



All fighters make excuses, but Duran's fan base have made an art form out of it.

[elmersalsa]

It is not that his fans make excuses. As I said, this guy was so remarkable in his career that when he beat the great Sugar Ray Leonard, there was this aura about him like saying, damn, if Duran beat Leonard, what was the limit? He beat someone like Leonard in such a way that cemented his "invincible" status. Nobody is invincible, but what he did in Montreal and that performance spoke volumes. And he did it at his very best, being Leonard at his very best. Everybody knows that that was not the same Duran in New Orleans. Whoever thinks that that Duran in New Orleans was the same as the one in Montreal got to get glasses.
The great Wilfred Benitez beat him.
The great Thomas Hearns decapitated him.
Great wins for those two. But the question was always: Was that the same Duran of the 70s? The one in Montreal? Was that Duran in his prime? I mean, that performance in Montreal alone was off the chain!!!

That is like asking about the great Muhammad Ali against his loss to the great Joe Frazier. Was that the same Ali of the 60s?

[Ezzard]

I think if you want to debate Duran’s ranking in an all-time Junior Middleweight list then of course Benitez and Hearns defeats are significant. If you are debating Duran in the classic p4p sense then they aren’t anywhere near as significant.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Does anyone that thinks Duran fans make more excuses than anyone else think that in Montreal he kicked Ray's ass when they were both at their best? Or did Leonard fight the wrong fight? That's an excuse I've heard more often than anything this side of Mike Tyson's prime ended when the plane landed in Tokyo. Ironically the OP cries both of those ad nauseum.

[keithmoonhangover]

Does anyone that thinks Duran fans make more excuses than anyone else think that in Montreal he kicked Ray's ass when they were both at their best? Or did Leonard fight the wrong fight? That's an excuse I've heard more often than anything this side of Mike Tyson's prime ended when the plane landed in Tokyo.

What's Duran's excuse for quitting only a few months later?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Does anyone that thinks Duran fans make more excuses than anyone else think that in Montreal he kicked Ray's ass when they were both at their best? Or did Leonard fight the wrong fight? That's an excuse I've heard more often than anything this side of Mike Tyson's prime ended when the plane landed in Tokyo.

What's Duran's excuse for quitting only a few months later?

I don't do excuses, that's your thing.

[elmersalsa]

Does anyone that thinks Duran fans make more excuses than anyone else think that in Montreal he kicked Ray's ass when they were both at their best? Or did Leonard fight the wrong fight? That's an excuse I've heard more often than anything this side of Mike Tyson's prime ended when the plane landed in Tokyo.

What's Duran's excuse for quitting only a few months later?

So you really believe that that was the same Duran in Montreal? I saw someone that was out of it from the first bell. Out of sync in all areas. What do you think?

[King Carlos]

Does anyone that thinks Duran fans make more excuses than anyone else think that in Montreal he kicked Ray's ass when they were both at their best? Or did Leonard fight the wrong fight? That's an excuse I've heard more often than anything this side of Mike Tyson's prime ended when the plane landed in Tokyo. Ironically the OP cries both of those ad nauseum.

Some of the most hypocritical nonsense in boxing.