Joe Louis (at peak!) vs Rocky Marciano

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 11 Nov 2005, 08:40

How would this fight pan out between both men at their respective peaks?. I think Louis would control things with his jab... Marciano may shake him up a bit and perhaps even floor Joe but Rocky would be cut up by the faster more potent Louis and things would end with a late rounds ko win for Joe.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » 11 Nov 2005, 09:16

I always reckoned this would be a copy of an Ali or Holmes fight against the Rock.

These guys were incredible boxers and that alone would be too much for Rocky.

Rocky was one of the most incredible fighters in the history of the Heavyweight Division and the three names above are the only people I Honestly think could beat him.

Louis either by UD or late TKO (cuts)

barry · Post by **barry** » 11 Nov 2005, 09:18

In their prime, Louis was simply just too skilled and unless Marciano landed a bomb as he did in his first bout with Walcott, then Louis would just bust Marciano up and win a hard fought, but lopsided decision!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 11 Nov 2005, 09:26

I could see Louis being floored, but often that made him more deadly, I think his fast combinations would make a mess of Rocky and it might not get into the late rounds....
Rocky was pretty badly cut up when they did fight in '51....

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 11 Nov 2005, 09:49

Louis by easy decision. Even Marciano said this would have been the result if he'd met a prime Louis.
Given Marciano's steel chin, I would never count him completely out until the fight was over.

-KOKid-

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 11 Nov 2005, 10:32

If Schmeling and Conn could give Louis hell, then the Rock has a great great chance and I think his toughness, chin and stamina are too much for Louis. Joe may well be ahead for a lot of the fight, but the Rock will get to him and if he lands a bomb which he has to, I think it's lights out.....

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 11 Nov 2005, 10:45

walshb wrote:If Schmeling and Conn could give Louis hell, then the Rock has a great great chance and I think his toughness, chin and stamina are too much for Louis. Joe may well be ahead for a lot of the fight, but the Rock will get to him and if he lands a bomb which he has to, I think it's lights out.....

Well, the heading said Joe Louis (at peak) vs. Marciano. Although Louis vs. Conn and Schmeling were in Louis' prime, they weren't his best performaces. They were great fights because Louis fought below par and that allowed them to be competitive with him.
A peak Louis would perform better than in these fights and be too skilled for Marciano.
An off-night Louis, well that's a whole 'nother fight and I could easily agree with you.

-KOKid-

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 11 Nov 2005, 10:47

I believe there was a thread on this subject a few weeks ago.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Nov 2005, 10:53

Even Marciano said this would have been the result if he'd met a prime Louis.

well i wouldnt take that too much seriosely KO kid, louis himself said he had a weakness, that he didnt like being crowded and that he could never beat marciano. both are very humble men.

that said, i did make a topic two weeks ago

-i think joe louis Knocks out rocky in mid rounds after a hard fought battle with both men being floored.

louis-marciano fight shouldnt be used against either fighter, because louis bigger frame, more strength and experience enabled him to survive longer than he should against peak marciano, and louis moved back the entire fight, where a prime louis would be coming in. louis did still have his jab nearly fully and had some KO power left, and managed to do a little damage to the rock. i had it 5 rounds 2 marciano entering the 8th.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 11 Nov 2005, 12:13

Conn and Schmeling were close to his prime, but him not at his best had also a lot to do with his opponents, did it not....Schmeling knoced him out, that is not a performance issue, that's just a case of Max nailing him and Joe being unable to take it.....The Rock hit a lot harder than Max and was leagues ahead of him in a lot of ways, chin, power, stamina, heart and guts...I see no reason why Rocky wouldn't be able to get to Joe at some point and really unload...the Rock I know may have to take a fair few firs, but maybe not....Rocky can take a shot much better than Joe in my opinion and lets be honest, Joe's defense wasn't exceptional, so Rocky would be landing early enough

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Nov 2005, 13:34

he was in his prime vs conn, he simly fought a bad fight due to dehydration when he dried himself out to weigh in under 200lb cause conn weighed only 174.

- louis at his peak was the greatest puncher of all time. he had the pefect jab and it would do damage to rock, and when rock goes to slug it out he will be met with the fastest most accurate deadly paralyzing combinations and rock wont surive that.

after the adolf wiater fight, blackburn taught him how to beat crowders.

marciano will give louis some problems, but louis wont have too much trouble with the crouch (godoy II).

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 11 Nov 2005, 13:49

I take Louis over Marciano. I think Marciano would last a while, but I do not see him getting past the tenth. Although lesser fighters than Marciano like Tommy Farr went the distance with Louis in his prime, this had the making of a fight-of-the-decade type bout. Louis goes down one or two times before the end, Marciano three tops.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 11 Nov 2005, 14:55

Louis had far more problems with movers like Conn, Walcott etc... Rocky's walkin style would be made for Louis really.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Nov 2005, 15:05

joe louis and rocky marciano had the outmost respect for eachother, both were very good friends, and rocky visited joe when he was very sick in the hopsitaal and spent countless hours with him.

- marciano cried when he saw joe louis after the fight in the dressing room. marciaano did not want that fight, but knew he had to take it.

marciano wa 14 years old watching his hero dismanct schmeling in one round. sad these type of fights had to happen (ali vs holmes)

funny thing is marciaano said while they were in the center of the ring before the bell, he was shocked by how big louis was. "he looked a lot bigger in real life".

funny thing is, louis in his prime was smaller, 6'2 200lb compared to the bulky 6'2 215lb he was in the marciano fight.

this would be an interesting fight though, because louis never faced a fighter like rock and rock never fought a fighter like louis.

Louis TKO 6 - can anyone see this fight going the distance?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 11 Nov 2005, 15:16

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:joe louis and rocky marciano had the outmost respect for eachother, both were very good friends, and rocky visited joe when he was very sick in the hopsitaal and spent countless hours with him.

- marciano cried when he saw joe louis after the fight in the dressing room. marciaano did not want that fight, but knew he had to take it.

marciano wa 14 years old watching his hero dismanct schmeling in one round. sad these type of fights had to happen (ali vs holmes)

funny thing is marciaano said while they were in the center of the ring before the bell, he was shocked by how big louis was. "he looked a lot bigger than when he was on tv".

funny thing is, louis in his prime was smaller, 6'2 200lb compared to the bulky 6'2 215lb he was in the marciano fight.

this would be an interesting fight though, because louis never faced a fighter like rock and rock never fought a fighter like louis.

Louis TKO 6 - can anyone see this fight going the distance?

I can see Marciano going the distance if he wasn't cut up too badly. Louis wasn't as great a one punch ko artist as some believe, he would stop opponents usually with his lightning combinations. But Rocky had a very good chin and great heart so I wouldn't rule out him going the distance but Louis would win by quite a clear margin.
Its interesting that Louis and Marciano got on so well, on the other hand Marciano seemed to have quite a strained relationship with Dempsey, and once asked Dempsey why he never turned up for any of his world title fights. Dempsey was not close to LOUIS either I belive.
Marciano also got on well with Ali.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 11 Nov 2005, 15:46

Yes Louis definitely had trouble with movers but Conn also more than held his own whilst fighting on the inside. He took a hell of a lot before being knocked out which tells me that the bigger, better conditioned and better chinned Marciano would also be able to take Joe's best....plain and simple. He outslugged Joe most of the time, surely the Rocks superior strenght would see him do the same. I just don't see Joe being tough enought to withstand the roughness and hard punching of the Rock for 15rds...and we know that Joe was there to be hit...

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 11 Nov 2005, 16:13

walshb wrote:Yes Louis definitely had trouble with movers but Conn also more than held his own whilst fighting on the inside. He took a hell of a lot before being knocked out which tells me that the bigger, better conditioned and better chinned Marciano would also be able to take Joe's best....plain and simple. He outslugged Joe most of the time, surely the Rocks superior strenght would see him do the same. I just don't see Joe being tough enought to withstand the roughness and hard punching of the Rock for 15rds...and we know that Joe was there to be hit...

I wouldn't say Marciano was stronger than Louis, Louis fought some very big men and was never bothered by their extra weight or strength. And remember Louis was more than holding his own against Rocky for the first 5 rounds of their fight until he tired... and this was a 36 yearold Louis who was only about 50% of his prime, if that.
Louis in his heyday would have chopped Marciano up and while Rockys guts and strength would have made it a great fight and he may even wobble or floor Louis (though when they did fight Marciano only floored Louis when Joe had tired) I can't see him beating Louis and Rocky really would have struggled to last the distance.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Nov 2005, 16:37

silkov wrote:
walshb wrote:Yes Louis definitely had trouble with movers but Conn also more than held his own whilst fighting on the inside. He took a hell of a lot before being knocked out which tells me that the bigger, better conditioned and better chinned Marciano would also be able to take Joe's best....plain and simple. He outslugged Joe most of the time, surely the Rocks superior strenght would see him do the same. I just don't see Joe being tough enought to withstand the roughness and hard punching of the Rock for 15rds...and we know that Joe was there to be hit...

I wouldn't say Marciano was stronger than Louis, Louis fought some very big men and was never bothered by their extra weight or strength. And remember Louis was more than holding his own against Rocky for the first 5 rounds of their fight until he tired... and this was a 36 yearold Louis who was only about 50% of his prime, if that.
Louis in his heyday would have chopped Marciano up and while Rockys guts and strength would have made it a great fight and he may even wobble or floor Louis (though when they did fight Marciano only floored Louis when Joe had tired) I can't see him beating Louis and Rocky really would have struggled to last the distance.

i wouldnt say that, marciano was solidly ahead, IMO only reason louis won a couple rounds and lasted as long as he did was because experience and ring smarts.

- louis backed up the whole fight, a peak louis would come forward so it would be a much different fight.

- louis was much more cautious and it made it harder for marciano too knock him out. a prime louis took much more chances. marciano would be much more likely to floor a prime louis because of that reason, but he would be less likely to win. u see what im getting at??

- why do u think louis was floored only ONCE, by marciano in his comeback of 12 fights, and in his prime he was floored a lot more. it was because louis took a lot more chances, and sometimes got caught off gaurd.

- i do think marciano is stronger than joe, 185lb marciano outphysicaled and pushed around 215lb joe the whole night. now the younger joe may be stronger, but he is also 15lbs less.

marciano would probably have the strength edge though joe louis is very strong.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 11 Nov 2005, 16:57

walshb wrote:Yes Louis definitely had trouble with movers but Conn also more than held his own whilst fighting on the inside. He took a hell of a lot before being knocked out which tells me that the bigger, better conditioned and better chinned Marciano would also be able to take Joe's best....plain and simple. He outslugged Joe most of the time, surely the Rocks superior strenght would see him do the same. I just don't see Joe being tough enought to withstand the roughness and hard punching of the Rock for 15rds...and we know that Joe was there to be hit...

I don't think Joe looked particularly at his best in his first fight against Conn. I think he trained hard, but underestimated Conn's ability. In the first fight, Conn moved, traded a little, and moved again before trying to knock out an ill-prepared Louis. When Conn finally stood and traded, he was out for the ten count. Conn went 3-0 after losing to Louis and enlisted in the military for 4 years just like Louis. Louis was just as rusty as Conn in the rematch (although four years older at 32 compared to Billy's 28 years of age ) and Louis walked right through him. I don't think Billy Conn getting KO'd twice by Louis is any indication that Marciano could have gone the distance.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 11 Nov 2005, 18:01

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
silkov wrote:
walshb wrote:Yes Louis definitely had trouble with movers but Conn also more than held his own whilst fighting on the inside. He took a hell of a lot before being knocked out which tells me that the bigger, better conditioned and better chinned Marciano would also be able to take Joe's best....plain and simple. He outslugged Joe most of the time, surely the Rocks superior strenght would see him do the same. I just don't see Joe being tough enought to withstand the roughness and hard punching of the Rock for 15rds...and we know that Joe was there to be hit...

I wouldn't say Marciano was stronger than Louis, Louis fought some very big men and was never bothered by their extra weight or strength. And remember Louis was more than holding his own against Rocky for the first 5 rounds of their fight until he tired... and this was a 36 yearold Louis who was only about 50% of his prime, if that.
Louis in his heyday would have chopped Marciano up and while Rockys guts and strength would have made it a great fight and he may even wobble or floor Louis (though when they did fight Marciano only floored Louis when Joe had tired) I can't see him beating Louis and Rocky really would have struggled to last the distance.
i wouldnt say that, marciano was solidly ahead, IMO only reason louis won a couple rounds and lasted as long as he did was because experience and ring smarts.

- louis backed up the whole fight, a peak louis would come forward so it would be a much different fight.

- louis was much more cautious and it made it harder for marciano too knock him out. a prime louis took much more chances. marciano would be much more likely to floor a prime louis because of that reason, but he would be less likely to win. u see what im getting at??

- why do u think louis was floored only ONCE, by marciano in his comeback of 12 fights, and in his prime he was floored a lot more. it was because louis took a lot more chances, and sometimes got caught off gaurd.

- i do think marciano is stronger than joe, 185lb marciano outphysicaled and pushed around 215lb joe the whole night. now the younger joe may be stronger, but he is also 15lbs less.

marciano would probably have the strength edge though joe louis is very strong.

Louis was doing well for about the first 5 rounds... using his jab... and being more cadgey. Its true that the older Louis was more cautious, knowing he didn't have his old speed or reflexes he relied more on his jab and picking punches rather than stalking forward behind the jab and looking to land his combinations. But I think Louis opponents in the run up to the Marciano fight were picked well... they weren't really world beaters... Savold and Bivins were both pretty much through and they were the best opponents he had beaten in his comeback.
Louis' stragedy against Marciano was to jab and block Rockys counters... this worked ok for the first 5 rounds at which point the fight was about even, but then Louis started to tire and Rocky started to connect.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 11 Nov 2005, 20:47

i think it would go the distance, just because rocky was so damm tough!
but louis would win, but it would by no means be a one sided fight

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 23 Nov 2005, 11:17

What would you pay to see this one. This, I think would come down to how much Rocky could take. He would have a difficult time, for sure, but come the championship rounds, that would tell the tale. I would favour
Joe because I think he would do a lot of early damage. That said, never count the Rock out. The damage Joe inflicted would have a bearing on the outcome. I don't think anyone can with any degree of accuracy pick a winner. Rocky would have to knock out Louis to win.

Joe Louis (at peak!) vs Rocky Marciano

Joe Louis (at peak!) vs Rocky Marciano

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Louis - Marciano