Gene Tunney Versus Floyd Patterson

[ThatOne]

Please discuss

[yancey]

Well, I'm sure Tunney generally rates a little higher on the all-time heavy list, but my pesos would be on Patterson in this one.

I see Patterson's hand speed and combination punching overcoming Tunney's great skills as Floyd wins a UD here. I also see Tunney being on his backside at least once courtesy of a leaping left hook.

That's my guess.

Patterson is my second favorite fighter of all-time. What a gentleman and I loved the probing, on the toes, peek a boo style.

[BoxBuzz]

Hey Yancey,

Let's say Jerry Quarry ate some bad fish at lunch on the day of his first fight with Joe Frazier.

And it just so Happens Patterson (in his prime) is available and steps up so's that the crowd aint disappointed and fight night is saved.

What happens here? Is Floyd able to do what Jerry did? Lose but give him hell?

Or Does Floyd Spark Joe early while Joe's getting "warmed up"?

Or does Joe basically turn Floyd into ground beef? Like he did to most everyone.

[yancey]

Hey Yancey,

Let's say Jerry Quarry ate some bad fish at lunch on the day of his first fight with Joe Frazier.

And it just so Happens Patterson (in his prime) is available and steps up so's that the crowd aint disappointed and fight night is saved.

What happens here? Is Floyd able to do what Jerry did? Lose but give him hell?

Or Does Floyd Spark Joe early while Joe's getting "warmed up"?

Or does Joe basically turn Floyd into ground beef? Like he did to most everyone.

Ground beef incoming....

15-20 minutes tops....

but get there earlier.

Joking aside, I see this one somewhat like the first Ellis-Frazier fight. I think Floyd would look good for the first round or two, but once Joe got in the first good lick, I think things would go fairly quickly.

I don't think Floyd could have taken the punishment that Quarry did. He would get counted out by about the 4th, I reckon.

[ThatOne]

Patterson would be in my top five favorite fighters because as Yancey said he was a gentleman.


I rewatched the second Ali-Quarry fight. It wasn't particularly close. Some fighters just have other fighter's numbers...

[dempseyfire]

I'd comfortably pick Tunney over Patterson.

Patterson vs Frazier? Floyd gets turned into ground beef . . . .

[yancey]

I'd comfortably pick Tunney over Patterson.

Patterson vs Frazier? Floyd gets turned into ground beef . . . .

Could you elaborate a bit on Tunney-Patterson?

Do you have Gene by UD?

What physical advantages do you see for Gene?

Not arguing, just wondering.

[dempseyfire]

I just see Tunney as a far superior boxer to Patterson . . .the D'Amato style relies on the opponent getting overwhelmed by the offense, but if someone isn't, it becomes very vulnerable to being timed and outworked. Tunney managed to adjust and beat Greb . . he'd be able to adjust and outbox Floyd.

And if one retorts that Patterson only got beat by bigger/power guys, I don't think Ellis was robbed at all vs Floyd and also think Quarry justly won their rematch.

[yancey]

Gentleman Floyd is a live dog

vs the Fighting Marine

imo

[gilgamesh]

Floyd wins

[gilgamesh]

Floyd wins

Mr G.

I like your deep in-depth analysis............

Sometimes I don't bother, I just call the winner. This was one of those times.

[DaveyMac]

I'd take Tunney, two similar guys, but Tunney a little better in every way.

[klompton]

Id pick Patterson. You had to punch or at least be big to cause Patterson problems and even then it wasnt a guarantee. Tunney wasnt a big puncher and was the same size as Patterson. I dont think he was any faster than Patterson, certainly not in terms of hand speed. I think its a bad style matchup for Tunney.

[Ambling Alp II]

You don't have to be that big of a puncher to give Patterson problems. Tunney was not a huge puncher, but he certainly had some power. Certainly over the length of a long fight he could have stopped Patterson. Tunney had a good chin and was better defensively.
Patterson is not going to outpoint Tunney, and is unlikely to knock him out. The most likely scenario is Tunney by late TKO or Tunney wins a decision.

[DaveyMac]

Funny I went back and looked them up and it is sort of eery in some ways even how much their careers were similar. For a bit I had almost even changed my mind. I guess in the end though I would still stick with Tunney and a big part of the reason is I don't think Joey Maxim could have beat Tunney, and Johannson and Dempsey are about the same size, with Dempsey being the much better fighter (although 4 years older) and Patterson split his pair while Tunney swept.

Tunney never fought anyone like Ali or Liston so hard to say those fights have any bearing on what Patterson would have done with Tunney.

Still would be an awesome fight. Wouldn't want to count out either man.

[klompton]

I dont think Maxim did beat Patterson. BUT I could see a 104 fight veteran like Maxim outpointing a green Tunney with only 13 bouts, particularly outweighing him by ten pounds.

[Ambling Alp II]

Actually ( sorry for sounding like Oscar from the Office) Patterson beat Johansson 2 out of three. He also got ripped off in the decision vs Maxim.

[DaveyMac]

Sorry, yes 2 of 3 from Johannson. And good point about the Maxim fight being so early. You'd just never see that now eh? I guess with Patterson being gold medalist and all they were moving him pretty fast. Amazingly Patterson was only 19 years old when he fought Maxim! So yeah I think I was wrong earlier about that.

I haven't seen the Maxim fight but it was a UD and one judge had it 7-1, so hard to argue that Patterson got cheated, but I agree in his 13th fight and being 19 there really is no shame in losing and Tunney probably would have lost that fight as well at that point.

Tunney's first real test was Leo Houck and that was his 35th pro fight, although he was only 23 even then.

Tunney just always seems so invincible when I think about him, whereas I always think of Patterson as being vulnerable. Some of that though is just because I saw Patterson get mauled by some bigger men, men like Tunney never fought. And of course part of Tunney's invincibility is those two wins against Dempsey, which just seem so big.

I met Patterson once at a David Telesco fight and gee he was a great guy. So nice to everyone.

I don't think this fight would end in a stoppage very often, I think it would almost always go to the cards.

[Ambling Alp II]

I think Patterson would have given him a tough fight, but Tunney would have won.
As for the Maxim fight, no it's not hard to argue that. Many people thought it was awful. It was a unanimous decision and one judge had it 7-1, which just goes to show how bad judges can be. They had most of this fight on ESPN Classic several years ago. I believe they showed 5 rounds, and I gave Patterson every one.

That early in his career, Tunney probably would have lost to Maxim. (Really lost to him.) However, Patterson had a much more extensive amateur background than Tunney and was already a very good fighter early on in his pro career.
However, Tunney developed into a great fighter.