Where does PBF rank as a ATG?

[ThatOne]

And how much of his ranking hang on retiring undefeated.

Obviously Mayweather thinks a lot.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'd say 25-50.

None of it for me, he's past the point of a loss hurting his standing. Though, like with Jones, it would set a realistic ceiling. The "0" is something that you can use to overrate his accomplishments.

[evrenb]

I'd say 25-50.

None of it for me, he's past the point of a loss hurting his standing. Though, like with Jones, it would set a realistic ceiling. The "0" is something that you can use to overrate his accomplishments.

I would say this is a fair estimation...based on longevity, quality of opposition, skill level and ability.
Out of all of these I would say his level of opposition while very high could be enhanced and push him to the elite top 25. While I do find him somewhat unexciting you have to give the guy all the respect in the world. . .

evren

[elmersalsa]

In the top 25 is a fair estimation.

[gilgamesh]

I'd say 25-50.

None of it for me, he's past the point of a loss hurting his standing. Though, like with Jones, it would set a realistic ceiling. The "0" is something that you can use to overrate his accomplishments.

That's where he'd be for me as well. I haven't listed all of the fighter's to know exactly where I'd have him in that list, but I know there would be at least 25 or 30 I'd rank over him.

[dnahar32]

I think 25-50 is fair. However, even now, I think a decisive win over Pacquaio would help his standing immensely. Fighting Guerrero, Alvarez (w/a weight concession), etc doesn't do much. And, I think all-time, Floyd's best weight was junior lightweight. Even if we just look at the classic eight weight divisions, I think Floyd was better at lightweight than currently at welterweight so that also factors in.

[gilgamesh]

I think 25-50 is fair. However, even now, I think a decisive win over Pacquaio would help his standing immensely. Fighting Guerrero, Alvarez (w/a weight concession), etc doesn't do much. And, I think all-time, Floyd's best weight was junior lightweight. Even if we just look at the classic eight weight divisions, I think Floyd was better at lightweight than currently at welterweight so that also factors in.

He has a better run at 140 and beyond than he had at 135.

[dnahar32]

He has a better run at 140 and beyond than he had at 135.

The two wins over Castillo and the sneaky solid win over Emmanuel Burton trump anything and everything he has done at jr welter or welterweight. He beat a prime #1 lightweight twice in his prime and beat a good fighter who lost a lot of questionable decisions legitimately. His junior welterweight run was lackluster and his best win at welterweight is probably Zab Judah, which isn't saying that much in a historical sense. Floyd picked and chose to fight the best fighters on his record at unnatural weights or past their primes as a welterweight.

[gilgamesh]

He has a better run at 140 and beyond than he had at 135.

The two wins over Castillo and the sneaky solid win over Emmanuel Burton trump anything and everything he has done at jr welter or welterweight. He beat a prime #1 lightweight twice in his prime and beat a good fighter who lost a lot of questionable decisions legitimately. His junior welterweight run was lackluster and his best win at welterweight is probably Zab Judah, which isn't saying that much in a historical sense. Floyd picked and chose to fight the best fighters on his record at unnatural weights or past their primes as a welterweight.

Granted his run at 140 wasn't all that noteworthy, but he's had a great run at 147, better than his Lightweight run by a good margin I'd say. Victories over Hatton and Marquez are superior to his win over Judah in my view. It could be argued that his win over Baldomir was better as well, considering Baldomir had beaten Judah earlier in the year.

I do agree that Castillo are two great wins for him on his record, but I don't count one of them as I only think he beat Castillo once, and neither of those were nearly as convincing as his top wins at Welterweight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He has a better run at 140 and beyond than he had at 135.

The two wins over Castillo and the sneaky solid win over Emmanuel Burton trump anything and everything he has done at jr welter or welterweight.

no

And Judah isn't near his best win over 140.

[gilgamesh]

Plus he's got at least 15 wins that are better than his win over Emanuel Augustus.

[dnahar32]

I think the Marquez win was tainted because of the weight that Floyd wanted him at (144lbs, nine above his norm) and how he himself blew the weight. Marquez looked doughy in the ring, not as cut as he did against Manny recently at the same weight. The Hatton win would have been far more impressive if he had fought him at 140lbs, like Manny did, since that is where Hatton had almost all of his major accomplishments. Hatton only managed a shaky decision over Luis Collazo at welterweight. I think the Judah win was his best above 140 because he faced some adversity, overcame it, and outfought a fighter with similar hand speed to his own. And I realize Baldomir beat Judah, but Judah is still the better overall fighter. A good case can also be made for the Mosley and DeLaHoya wins, but I think the Judah that faced Mayweather that night was better than the Mosley or DeLaHoya versions that faced Floyd.

The Emmanuel Augustus fight was included to showcase a highlight from his lightweight days aside from the Castillo fights, nothing more. By no means is that a signature win, but it is a good win. Floyd himself has said Augustus was the toughest fighter he faced so that should factor in as well.

[gilgamesh]

I think the Marquez win was tainted because of the weight that Floyd wanted him at (144lbs, nine above his norm) and how he himself blew the weight. Marquez looked doughy in the ring, not as cut as he did against Manny recently at the same weight. The Hatton win would have been far more impressive if he had fought him at 140lbs, like Manny did, since that is where Hatton had almost all of his major accomplishments. Hatton only managed a shaky decision over Luis Collazo at welterweight. I think the Judah win was his best above 140 because he faced some adversity, overcame it, and outfought a fighter with similar hand speed to his own. And I realize Baldomir beat Judah, but Judah is still the better overall fighter. A good case can also be made for the Mosley and DeLaHoya wins, but I think the Judah that faced Mayweather that night was better than the Mosley or DeLaHoya versions that faced Floyd.

The Emmanuel Augustus fight was included to showcase a highlight from his lightweight days aside from the Castillo fights, nothing more. By no means is that a signature win, but it is a good win. Floyd himself has said Augustus was the toughest fighter he faced so that should factor in as well.

Fighter's are often full of sh*t when saying their toughest fight though. They always say something that doesn't sound right instead of the obvious truth.

I would agree that Judah was one of his tougher fights at Welterweight and Judah did give him problems in the early going, but he won it going away after the first 4 rounds.

I personally give him full credit for the Marquez victory, Marquez wouldn't beat Mayweather if they fought 1000 times. I give him full credit for Hatton as well. I don't agree that Judah was better than the DLH that Floyd faced. I'd say it was about even with Judah and Mosley at the times they fought.

At any rate though, DLH had beaten Mayorga in his last fight before facing Mayweather, Mosley had beaten Margarito before facing Mayweather. Judah just lost to Baldomir. So, considering that I'd definitely say the Mosley and DLH wins were bigger.

[dnahar32]

That's fair about Mosley and DLH. For some reason, and this is not Mayweather's fault in any way, Mosley appeared completely disengaged during that fight after nearly KOing Floyd in the second round. I couldn't understand it watching it then and neither could any of my boxing buddies. But considering he was the consensus welterweight champion and a future HOF, that probably is a better win since Zab will have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall. The DeLaHoya win as well, since he was a jr middleweight titleholder when he fought Floyd. But Zab has always been hot and cold, and starting out in that fight, he fought at his very best...until Floyd figured him out. That's why I give Floyd so much credit for this win.

Fighters do blow smoke on their rivals sometimes, but I do think that Augustus was legitimately a tough fight for Floyd. Probably not his toughest, but he wants people to remember Emmanuel Augustus so bringing him up is a positive in my book. I know a lot of people who love Floyd and yet have no idea who Emmanuel Augustus was as a fighter and would probably dismiss him as a bum with his ring record. Most casual fans would. Floyd trumping him up validates him as a good fighter and I'm glad Floyd said that.

[gilgamesh]

That's fair about Mosley and DLH. For some reason, and this is not Mayweather's fault in any way, Mosley appeared completely disengaged during that fight after nearly KOing Floyd in the second round. I couldn't understand it watching it then and neither could any of my boxing buddies. But considering he was the consensus welterweight champion and a future HOF, that probably is a better win since Zab will have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall. The DeLaHoya win as well, since he was a jr middleweight titleholder when he fought Floyd. But Zab has always been hot and cold, and starting out in that fight, he fought at his very best...until Floyd figured him out. That's why I give Floyd so much credit for this win.

Fighters do blow smoke on their rivals sometimes, but I do think that Augustus was legitimately a tough fight for Floyd. Probably not his toughest, but he wants people to remember Emmanuel Augustus so bringing him up is a positive in my book. I know a lot of people who love Floyd and yet have no idea who Emmanuel Augustus was as a fighter and would probably dismiss him as a bum with his ring record. Most casual fans would. Floyd trumping him up validates him as a good fighter and I'm glad Floyd said that.

Yeah no doubt, Augustus was definitely a much, much better fighter than his record indicates and a pleasure to watch when he was on. Augustus was a guy that almost always fought his best when he knew he was on Television and being exposed to a wider audience. It seems like he phoned it in more in his non-televised bouts.