1940s-1950s Heavyweights vs. Todays Cruiserweights

[evndrbsn]

Some people think the cruiserweight division is terrible these days, but I highly disagree. I, for one, follow the cruiserweight division because it is what my favorite heavyweight champions from 1919 to 1962 commonly weighed. Typically, there are good fights with good fighters when I get a chance to see them.

Alright, for times sake lets just measure the champions from 1937 to 1959: Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, and Ingemar Johannson against the top cruiserweight of today, Jean-Marc Mormeck.

vs. Joe Louis: Mormeck is a very powerful fighter with a granite chin and solid fundamentals. However, Louis had an edge in almost every department. He was taller, weighed a couple pounds more in his prime, and had an edge in hand speed and power. Mormeck would make this interesting by taking Louis' best shots over the first couple rounds, but even with his granite chin, I don't see him lasting past round five. A bloodied Mormeck is teetering around the ring from every shot at this point, and Louis scores a spectacular technical knockout in the fifth round.

vs. Ezzard Charles: Charles was quite possibly the most gifted light heavyweight of all-time, including Roy Jones, Jr. and Archie Moore. Charles was the best pure boxer of all the champions from 1937-1959, but he also had the least amount of success in the heavyweight division compared to the others on the list. This is mostly because it was not his natural division. Regardless, I see Mormeck storming Charles early, maybe even registering a knock down in the first couple of rounds. Charles undergoes some scary moments in the first half before his guile and precision takes over and lets him cruise to an exciting fifteen-round decision.

vs. Jersey Joe Walcott: Walcott and Mormeck had a similar build, with Walcott half an inch taller. This would lead to believe that Mormeck would have a difficult time overpowering Walcott, as he would be able to do early against Charles. I also believe Walcott could bully him around the ring and would do so all night. Couple this with Walcott's jab and technical brilliance, and it should lead Jersey Joe to an easy victory. However, Walcott was consistently inconsistent in the ring and suffered lapses throughout his fights. This is mostly because he made a career out of not coming into fights in tip top form, whether it be from malnutrition or taking a fight on quick notice. Walcott at times outclasses Mormeck, showcasing a rare brilliance, while on occassion taking some heavy, unnecessary shots to give Mormeck hope. Walcott's technique and strong chin benefits him in the end, and takes a competitive but clear cut fifteen-round win.

vs. Rocky Marciano: Finally "The Rock" meets a guy who will stand and trade and does not have any real size advantage over him, besides a few inches in reach and an inch in height. Mormeck is tailor-made for Marciano and for the fans. An absolute riveting battle early, Marciano takes seven of the first eight rounds, scoring a knock down in the fifth before the referee counts Mormeck out in the ninth after a crushing right to the jaw sends Mormeck down in a heap. For Marciano, bleeding over both eyes, it secures another Fight of the Year to go along with his victories over Walcott I, LaStarza II, and Charles II (ever notice The Ring gave Rocky all three of his Fight-of-the-Years in bouts that were either the first or second of a series?).

vs. Floyd Patterson: This is a difficult one. Patterson admits he always had problems with hard punching pressure fighters who had solid chins. Great examples are his fights against Sonny Liston and George Chuvalo. Against Liston, he tried to aggressively brawl with Liston and got blown out in one round on two occassions. Against Chuvalo, he defensively boxed in an excellent fight to win a close twelve-round decision. Which Patterson shows up? The 1956-1963 Floyd Patterson gets blown out in less than three rounds. The best Floyd Patterson emerged after his title reign, when his trainer and manager convinced him to adopt a more defensive boxing style against power punchers. The best possible Floyd Patterson (a hard hitter in his own right with the fastest pre-Ali heavyweight fists) boxes Mormeck beautifully over the first three rounds before getting sent to the canvas in the fourth. The next eight rounds go back and forth in a see-saw battle, with both fighters getting rocked and Floyd visiting the canvas at least one more time. Floyd's experience comes out in rounds 13 to 15 (the TRUE championship rounds), as he sweeps the final nine minutes to secure a very close decision. Afterwards, echoing his post-fight interview after the Chuvalo fight, an exhausted Patterson asks Don Dunphy, "do I take a good punch now?"

vs. Ingemar Johansson: "Ingo" had a crushing right hand and pretty decent boxing technique, which he used to crush quite a few notable heavyweights from 1957-1959. However, he had a weak chin and a shallow defense that let him down heavily in three fights. Against Patterson the second and third times, he was knocked unconscious; against the ordinary Brian London in his final fight (at only age 30), he was knocked out cold (think Glen Johnson-Roy Jones, Jr.) in the final seconds of the bout and was saved by the bell. He won a twelve-round decision and was slated to fight Sonny Liston (at least right before he was KO'd by London), but wisely retired. Mormeck, with his powerful punches and terrific chin, tears into Johansson over the first two rounds. Mormeck wades through Johansson’s drilling right hand to rock Johansson asleep late in the third.

Even though Mormeck goes 1-5 against these champions, he gives a pretty good account of himself. That is more than can be said for most of the "titlists" today!

[dempseyfire]

I think it's too early to judge Mormeck vs how he'd do vs heavyweights of yesteryear, as his best win is vs a capable but very small cruiser (Braithwaite), who I think would be starched by all of the champs you mention. I think Mormeck would be game vs all of them but lose fairly handidly to all of them as well, save Johansson, who I agree with you he'd have a good chance to beat with his pressure style.

[evndrbsn]

I think it's too early to judge Mormeck vs how he'd do vs heavyweights of yesteryear, as his best win is vs a capable but very small cruiser (Braithwaite), who I think would be starched by all of the champs you mention. I think Mormeck would be game vs all of them but lose fairly handidly to all of them as well, save Johansson, who I agree with you he'd have a good chance to beat with his pressure style.

Braithwaite is actually a pretty good size cruiserweight at 6'1" although his frame is smaller than Mormeck's. I think his best win is against Braithwaite of course, but he has had a handful of good wins. The first was against Virgil Hill, who was not fully prepared and well past his prime. His stoppages of Dale Brown (who was just robbed against O'Neil Bell) and Alexander Gurov (his only defeat in the past seven years) were also very impressive. Virgil Hill came fully prepared in the rematch with Mormeck (but again, still past his best), which Mormeck won over twelve.

Although we are in agreement that he would lose to all but Johansson, I think he has a chance against Floyd Patterson. I think Patterson of 1965 would win a very close decision, but I think before that he gets destroyed. Patterson hated fighting any way except forward. He had quite a battle with his manager and trainer over how he would fight George Chuvalo, for example, but gave in thankfully to the defensive style. Otherwise, I think Chuvalo takes him out in less than seven (Ali prediced five for Chuvalo).

[Seamus]

Good scenarios and there all believable, though I would give Johansson at least a punchers chance, afterall he took Machen in one round.

Even though he's moved up to HW the Cruiserweight of recent times who I think would have had the best chance against the HW's you listed is Juan Carlos Gomez. Height, reach, speed, power etc he possesses would have given all those guys problems.

P.S Does anyone know if Mormeck has ever been down as a pro ?

[evndrbsn]

Good scenarios and there all believable, though I would give Johansson at least a punchers chance, afterall he took Machen in one round.

Even though he's moved up to HW the Cruiserweight of recent times who I think would have had the best chance against the HW's you listed is Juan Carlos Gomez. Height, reach, speed, power etc he possesses would have given all those guys problems.

P.S Does anyone know if Mormeck has ever been down as a pro ?

I think Juan Carlos Gomez was a tremendous cruiserweight. I think he lacked the chin of Mormeck though and he probably has less resolve than most people think. In his rematch with Marcelo Dominguez, who he beat for the title, Gomez wanted to quit halfway through the fight (maybe it was later) because he was exhausted. While Mormeck might turn out to be the same way, he has not shown it yet. I think if he was exhausted and taking shots from a fighter like Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano, he probably quits. I agree that he has a better chance against the six heavyweights than Mormeck. He possibly beats Patterson and most likely beats Johansson, but I think he still loses to Louis, Charles, Walcott, and Marciano.

I don't think Mormeck has been down as a pro, but I am not sure. He might have gone down earlier in his career, but I am pretty sure he has not been down since winning the title.

[dempseyfire]

I think it's too early to judge Mormeck vs how he'd do vs heavyweights of yesteryear, as his best win is vs a capable but very small cruiser (Braithwaite), who I think would be starched by all of the champs you mention. I think Mormeck would be game vs all of them but lose fairly handidly to all of them as well, save Johansson, who I agree with you he'd have a good chance to beat with his pressure style.

Braithwaite is actually a pretty good size cruiserweight at 6'1" although his frame is smaller than Mormeck's. I think his best win is against Braithwaite of course, but he has had a handful of good wins. The first was against Virgil Hill, who was not fully prepared and well past his prime. His stoppages of Dale Brown (who was just robbed against O'Neil Bell) and Alexander Gurov (his only defeat in the past seven years) were also very impressive. Virgil Hill came fully prepared in the rematch with Mormeck (but again, still past his best), which Mormeck won over twelve.

Although we are in agreement that he would lose to all but Johansson, I think he has a chance against Floyd Patterson. I think Patterson of 1965 would win a very close decision, but I think before that he gets destroyed. Patterson hated fighting any way except forward. He had quite a battle with his manager and trainer over how he would fight George Chuvalo, for example, but gave in thankfully to the defensive style. Otherwise, I think Chuvalo takes him out in less than seven (Ali prediced five for Chuvalo).

It is the Chuvalo fight that leads me to believe Floyd could beat Mormeck and possibly stop him. Chuvalo had a granite chin and good punching power and Floyd went toe to toe with him in a great action fight and persevered. Mormeck is more athletic then George but not as big and strong, and def. not on par as a body puncher.

[evndrbsn]

It is the Chuvalo fight that leads me to believe Floyd could beat Mormeck and possibly stop him. Chuvalo had a granite chin and good punching power and Floyd went toe to toe with him in a great action fight and persevered. Mormeck is more athletic then George but not as big and strong, and def. not on par as a body puncher.

Patterson did not fight George like he was accustomed to fighting. He was moving backwards almost the entire fight and boxing. Unfortunately, he would freeze up when Chuvalo hit him and George would pound on his body. Chuvalo was a terrific body puncher, I agree.