Il Duce- Please give me your top ten heavyweights in order

[SaadOffTheDeck]

But doesn't viewing a fighter give you some indication to where he is at??

Where he is at against Herring? No, that wouldn't tell me much at all in regards to fighting Muhammad Ali.

[ThatOne]

I don't think Williams was a great opponent. Regardless of what he did or would do he looked totally flummoxed out there.

I know all about the shooting. But he did recover. It's not as if he's a dead man walking.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't think Williams was a great opponent. Regardless of what he did or would do he looked totally flummoxed out there.

I know all about the shooting. But he did recover. It's not as if he's a dead man walking.

He was an inferior fighter well past his past. It's a disservice to Ali's remarkable ledger to rank that as his greatest night. Simple as that.

[ThatOne]

I dont deny that. I agree that the Williams win is overrated as showing a "prime Ali" at the height of his powers. But Williams was hardly a corpse, as he has been described. Frankly I think Williams is overrated to begin with, BUT hes no worse than Billy Miske who was nothing special and should never have been voted into the hall of fame.

I once was on youtube and watched two posters go at it for days,, comparing Ali's and Marciano's opponents and where the two combatants were in their careers when they faced their opponents and where their opponents were in their stage of their careers when Ali and Marciano faced them.

If you do that with Ali and Dempsey the comparison becomes even more ludicrous as Ali's achieved his biggest victory at at an age when Jack Dempsey had retired, unable to figure out the riddle that was Gene Tunney.

Age is a silly way to compare fighters. Certainly guys like Moore & Hopkins deserve credit for their longevity, but you can't just use a number as a measure of rankings.

I agree...No argument... But wins over 'shot' or 'nearly shot' fighters shouldn't count as much as wins over fighters at or near their peaks and losses by 'shot' or 'nearly shot' fighters shouldn't count as much as losses by fighters at their peaks.

[klompton]

I dont deny that. I agree that the Williams win is overrated as showing a "prime Ali" at the height of his powers. But Williams was hardly a corpse, as he has been described. Frankly I think Williams is overrated to begin with, BUT hes no worse than Billy Miske who was nothing special and should never have been voted into the hall of fame.

I never said he was worse than Miske and I don't even consider Ali & Dempsey's resumes to be remotely comparable. Everything isn't a slight at your boy. I'm a fan, grew up watching him.

So if thats the case then why do you assume Im lumping you with Douche? If I make a general comment directed at people who support Douche's asinine thesis and you arent one of those people then obviously my comment isnt directed at you. Grow a thicker skin.

[ThatOne]

I don't think Williams was a great opponent. Regardless of what he did or would do he looked totally flummoxed out there.

I know all about the shooting. But he did recover. It's not as if he's a dead man walking.

He was an inferior fighter well past his past. It's a disservice to Ali's remarkable ledger to rank that as his greatest night. Simple as that.

I don't think it was his greatest fight. I think some like it from a stylistic purpose as it appears Ali can turn his opponents into statues.

[klompton]

I don't think Williams was a great opponent. Regardless of what he did or would do he looked totally flummoxed out there.

I know all about the shooting. But he did recover. It's not as if he's a dead man walking.

He was an inferior fighter well past his past. It's a disservice to Ali's remarkable ledger to rank that as his greatest night. Simple as that.

I agree with this completely and never said anything to the contrary. Why assume so?

[ThatOne]

Let's be nice in this thread.

I find Il Duce amusing...

Alfredo Evangelista...

Really....

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I once was on youtube and watched two posters go at it for days,, comparing Ali's and Marciano's opponents and where the two combatants were in their careers when they faced their opponents and where their opponents were in their stage of their careers when Ali and Marciano faced them.

If you do that with Ali and Dempsey the comparison becomes even more ludicrous as Ali's achieved his biggest victory at at an age when Jack Dempsey had retired, unable to figure out the riddle that was Gene Tunney.

Age is a silly way to compare fighters. Certainly guys like Moore & Hopkins deserve credit for their longevity, but you can't just use a number as a measure of rankings.

I agree...No argument... But wins over 'shot' or 'nearly shot' fighters shouldn't count as much as wins over fighters at or near their peaks and losses by 'shot' or 'nearly shot' fighters shouldn't count as much as losses by fighters at their peaks.

My bad, misunderstood you. Absolutely agree, I rate many losses over wins. I'd rate Ali's performance in the FOTC over the Williams fight. That's a plus on his ledger to me.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't think Williams was a great opponent. Regardless of what he did or would do he looked totally flummoxed out there.

I know all about the shooting. But he did recover. It's not as if he's a dead man walking.

He was an inferior fighter well past his past. It's a disservice to Ali's remarkable ledger to rank that as his greatest night. Simple as that.

I agree with this completely and never said anything to the contrary. Why assume so?

More BS? Seriously? LOL, where did I accuse you of disagreeing with that? You accused me of shitting on the Williams fight and lauding Dempsey. I'm sure now you'll say by "douchebags" you meant Il Duce alone.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I dont deny that. I agree that the Williams win is overrated as showing a "prime Ali" at the height of his powers. But Williams was hardly a corpse, as he has been described. Frankly I think Williams is overrated to begin with, BUT hes no worse than Billy Miske who was nothing special and should never have been voted into the hall of fame.

I never said he was worse than Miske and I don't even consider Ali & Dempsey's resumes to be remotely comparable. Everything isn't a slight at your boy. I'm a fan, grew up watching him.

So if thats the case then why do you assume Im lumping you with Douche? If I make a general comment directed at people who support Douche's asinine thesis and you arent one of those people then obviously my comment isnt directed at you. Grow a thicker skin.

Thicker skin? I couldn't care less what you think of me. We both know what you meant, you were just talking out of your ass yet again. I see you've already come with my predicted response, hardly surprising.

[klompton]

More BS? Seriously? LOL, where did I accuse you of disagreeing with that? You accused me of shitting on the Williams fight and lauding Dempsey. I'm sure now you'll say by "douchebags" you meant Il Duce alone.

I didnt single you out at all. If you dont agree with Douche then why assume Im addressing you? If you didnt shit on the williams fight and laud Dempsey then why inject yourself into the conversation? If we agree on the statements youve made then why pretend Im attacking you and accuse me of lying while defending the biggest serial liar to ever appear on this message board? Typical trolling by you. I think weve established my comments had nothing to do with you and yet you continue to pretend they do just to start something. GTFO.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I didnt single you out at all. If you dont agree with Douche then why assume Im addressing you? If you didnt poo on the williams fight and laud Dempsey then why inject yourself into the conversation? If we agree on the statements youve made then why pretend Im attacking you and accuse me of lying while defending the biggest serial liar to ever appear on this message board? Typical trolling by you. I think weve established my comments had nothing to do with you and yet you continue to pretend they do just to start something. GTFO.

More lies, where in here have I defended him? I don't even think I've responded to him, I've pretty much been carrying on a conversation with TheOne. If you weren't referring to me, who else was talking about the Williams fight in a less than sterling manner? "Corpse like" was a clear dig at me, even after I told you that description was an exaggeration. Do you even read posts that don't come from Il Duce?

Your comments obviously had something to do with me and you're the one that addressed me in the first place just to start something. You're quite the transparent clown. I'm looking forward to the day when you actually address me with a stance I've taken or something I've actually said. With this kind of horseshit it's hard to imagine your book being anything more than an inane pile of lies.

[ThatOne]

I think Il Duce should produce citations for his quotes.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think Il Duce should produce citations for his quotes.

Agreed, and Klompton should produce words I've said instead of making up his own little troll game as he goes along.

[ThatOne]

I learn from everyone on this board including you and klompton. I even learn from elmer and duce.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I learn from everyone on this board including you and klompton. I even learn from elmer and duce.

Klompton certainly knows his Boxing, he's just a chronic liar. Either that or he's too lazy and lacks the memory to make sure his arguments are valid. Whatever, no big deal. Saved me $45 on a book.

[ThatOne]

Do you guys think Tommy Morrison, Jerry Quarry, and Gerry Cooney could be competitive with Dempsey?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Do you guys think Tommy Morrison, Jerry Quarry, and Gerry Cooney could be competitive with Dempsey?

Quarry could, the other guys chins are too suspect. Though Morrison would have a bit of a punchers chance.

[ThatOne]

The reason it's hard to find a 'Great Fight' during Cassius Clay's 'First Reign',

Because there is none.

Cassius was a very good boxer, but 'not a great fighter', who defeated a hoard of 'mediocrity'.

Evert Boxing Magazine ripped apart his opponents,

* An Old Man who is a Grandfather, who took a dive faster than a 'Speed-Swimmer'
* A glass-chinned former Champion who falls down when the wind goes by his chin
* A slow-footed Canadian Fire-Plug who lost his last bout to an Argentinian living in Italy
* Scarping the bottom of the Garbage Heap
* Thin-skin leaky-eyed Englishman
* A German who was felled 3-times by Clay's sparring partner
* A 33 year-old who is coming back from the brink of death, a gun shot wound, one kidney and a half-a-leg
* A 6' 6" gangling string-bean, who shows little if anything, other than 'height'
* A 35 year-old cement-shoed veteran, who is 5-years past his prime

Ali beat four Olympic Gold medalists, seven International Boxing Hall Of Fame inductees, and three other all time top ten greats. That tops beating a guy with failing kidneys and some guy who was retired for two years. But you already know that.

I once read a good way of comparing two fighters. Ask yourself who Fighter A beat that Fighter B couldn't beat and vice versa.

Who did Dempsey beat Ali couldn't beat and who did Ali beat that Dempsey couldn't beat?

[ThatOne]

The reason it's hard to find a 'Great Fight' during Cassius Clay's 'First Reign',

Because there is none.

Cassius was a very good boxer, but 'not a great fighter', who defeated a hoard of 'mediocrity'.

Every Boxing Magazine ripped apart his opponents,

* An Old Man who is a Grandfather, who took a dive faster than a 'Speed-Swimmer'
* A glass-chinned former Champion who falls down when the wind goes by his chin
* A slow-footed Canadian Fire-Plug who lost his last bout to an Argentinian living in Italy
* Scraping the bottom of the Garbage Heap in London
* Thin-skin leaky-eyed Englishman, who was shop-worn years ago
* A German who was felled 3-times by Clay's sparring partner
* A 33 year-old who is coming back from the brink of death, a gun shot wound, one kidney and a half-a-leg
* A 6' 6" gangling string-bean, who shows little if anything, other than 'height'
* A 36 year-old cement-shoed veteran, who is 5-years past his prime

You can't make this S**T up.

DITTO.........

Ali beat four Olympic Gold medalists, seven International Boxing Hall Of Fame inductees, and three other all time top ten greats. That tops beating a guy with failing kidneys and some guy who was retired for two years. But you already know that.

I once read a good way of comparing two fighters. Ask yourself who Fighter A beat that Fighter B couldn't beat and vice versa.

Who did Dempsey beat Ali couldn't beat and who did Ali beat that Dempsey couldn't beat?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Frazier would have thrashed Dempsey, no doubt in my mind.

[klompton]

I didnt single you out at all. If you dont agree with Douche then why assume Im addressing you? If you didnt poo on the williams fight and laud Dempsey then why inject yourself into the conversation? If we agree on the statements youve made then why pretend Im attacking you and accuse me of lying while defending the biggest serial liar to ever appear on this message board? Typical trolling by you. I think weve established my comments had nothing to do with you and yet you continue to pretend they do just to start something. GTFO.

More lies, where in here have I defended him? I don't even think I've responded to him, I've pretty much been carrying on a conversation with TheOne. If you weren't referring to me, who else was talking about the Williams fight in a less than sterling manner? "Corpse like" was a clear dig at me, even after I told you that description was an exaggeration. Do you even read posts that don't come from Il Duce?

Your comments obviously had something to do with me and you're the one that addressed me in the first place just to start something. You're quite the transparent clown. I'm looking forward to the day when you actually address me with a stance I've taken or something I've actually said. With this kind of horseshit it's hard to imagine your book being anything more than an inane pile of lies.

So what exactly am I lying about? Lets have specifics. Are you trying to deny that on several occasions you have rushed to Douche's defense despite the fact that he has been caught lying several times. Yet you accuse me of lying about what?

I dont give two shits whether you buy my book. My book isnt for casual trolls like you. You would be much happier with mistake riddled, poorly researched, quickly produced material like Paxton's book or with fiction (read: lies) like Fair's. If you think my book is full of lies then have at it. Unlike some people here I have heavily cited everything Ive written about in the book so doubters like yourself can do their own legwork and track down the original source. Thats usually appreciated by people like you who cant think for themselves. But since you seem to think you have some kind of beef with me I suggest you borrow a copy and try to pinpoint all of my "lies." You just might learn something in process if you are capable. No? I didnt think so.

[ThatOne]

Frazier would have thrashed Dempsey, no doubt in my mind.

Foreman and Liston too...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I didnt single you out at all. If you dont agree with Douche then why assume Im addressing you? If you didnt poo on the williams fight and laud Dempsey then why inject yourself into the conversation? If we agree on the statements youve made then why pretend Im attacking you and accuse me of lying while defending the biggest serial liar to ever appear on this message board? Typical trolling by you. I think weve established my comments had nothing to do with you and yet you continue to pretend they do just to start something. GTFO.

More lies, where in here have I defended him? I don't even think I've responded to him, I've pretty much been carrying on a conversation with TheOne. If you weren't referring to me, who else was talking about the Williams fight in a less than sterling manner? "Corpse like" was a clear dig at me, even after I told you that description was an exaggeration. Do you even read posts that don't come from Il Duce?

Your comments obviously had something to do with me and you're the one that addressed me in the first place just to start something. You're quite the transparent clown. I'm looking forward to the day when you actually address me with a stance I've taken or something I've actually said. With this kind of horseshit it's hard to imagine your book being anything more than an inane pile of lies.

So what exactly am I lying about? Lets have specifics. Are you trying to deny that on several occasions you have rushed to Douche's defense despite the fact that he has been caught lying several times. Yet you accuse me of lying about what?

I dont give two shits whether you buy my book. My book isnt for casual trolls like you. You would be much happier with mistake riddled, poorly researched, quickly produced material like Paxton's book or with fiction (read: lies) like Fair's. If you think my book is full of lies then have at it. Unlike some people here I have heavily cited everything Ive written about in the book so doubters like yourself can do their own legwork and track down the original source. Thats usually appreciated by people like you who cant think for themselves. But since you seem to think you have some kind of beef with me I suggest you borrow a copy and try to pinpoint all of my "lies." You just might learn something in process if you are capable. No? I didnt think so.

You lie every time you address me with something. As for running to Il Duce's defense, that's another bold faced lie. I defended his right to post in threads that are started complaining about his activity. No more than that, you skim right by where I say that I understand people correcting him and I rarely ever open his threads, much less "run to his defense". So no need to search, you just lied again.

I'm sure I would learn plenty, that doesn't mean I'm going to support a prick that spends his time on a message board trolling me with lies. As for you not caring if I get your book. Good, we agree on something.