dagosd2000 wrote:
Henry Armstrong
Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Wow! thats great stuff Rog.El Gallo wrote:dagosd2000 wrote:
Henry Armstrong
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Expug wrote:Wow! thats great stuff Rog.El Gallo wrote:dagosd2000 wrote:
Henry Armstrong
Thanks guys. This Henry Armstrong was painted a few years back. I'm going over a lot of my stuff and painting over the ones that I don't feel comfortable with. I'm getting a little burned out painting fighters. Keeping the ones I feel good about though. Here's one I did of Joe Louis a few weeks back. This is similar to others,but is in black and white.
And this is one of Joan Of Arc.As far as I know she didn't box .Painted about a month ago.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Uncle Joe
He's been dead for quite some time now. Uncle Joe was my mother's brother.He was always mentioned as the black sheep.He had the biggest biceps I'd ever seen and his nose was broken in a dozen places. He used to like to move his nose around for us kids.
My mother had five sisters and two brothers. They all grew up in very tough times in the Patch which was the dago neighborhood in Chicago. The family was on relief during the 1920's. My grandmother on my mother's side had lost two husbands so there wasn't a breadwinner in the house.
My aunts all married non Italians except for my mother. My aunts' families turned out alright with all my cousins graduating from college. There was no divorces.My aunts worked all their lives as did their husbands. My aunts never seemed like Italians to me.
The boys on my mother's side were different. My Uncle Bob owned a bar on the Northside called "Little Hawaii."The bsr was formerly owned by a German. They still had the stain glass in the windows. My Uncle Joe named the bar Little Hawaii because the group he had in the joint was this Hawaiian band that wore grass skirts and did the hula. My Uncle Bob left his first wife for the girl singer in the band and they later got married and had my cousin Bobby. My mother told me that Uncle Bob's first wife was crushed.
The bar did a booming business during the war.My Uncle Joe. who was partners with his brother, went into the Army while Uncle Bob watched the bar. My Uncle Joe left his wife in Chicago while he was overseas. I guess when the war was over and my Uncle Joe came back,he found out that his wife was cheating on him.Well he threw her down a flight of stairs and that was it. Later ,the Hawaiian woman who married my Uncle Bob left him for someone else.
My Uncle Joe loved to gamble. He was what they called a degenerate gambler. He never owned a car ,and except when he lived with us after we moved to California,he always was residing in some flea bag hotel. Any money he could put aside so he gamble was worth it to him.
When he lived with us,he stayed in the back room. He would catch the bus and go to Tijuana. The bus took a long time to get to the border because of all the stops along the way. I'd hear him come in around sunrise. My father never liked the guy much. I don't think my Uncle Joe had anything against my father,but I know my father didn't like him much.
When my Uncle Joe worked,he worked in one of Bompansiero's joints downtown.
Bompansiro was loosely connected to the mob.Later the boys in Chicago found out he was a snitch and he got whacked. My Uncle Joe said he had to much class to work in one the Oriental bars downtown,but as far as I could tell all those places were the same: filled with gambling degenerates,pool hustlers,winos ,and whores.
My Uncle Joe was a good story teller and knew how to make everyone laugh. When he told stories about his army days during the war he never told any stories about being in battles because he would have been lying. My father,who was in big battles in the Pacific,would have called him out on that.
I remember when the Caliente Race Track in TJ banned him after they caught him with a telephone at the track How he got it in there is anyone's guess. This was the days before cell phones. His scam was like the movie,The Sting. He had a line with the Western Union guy and would lay down a bundle if the Western Union guy said a horse was way ahead in the stretch. Well the security got wind of it,but not after my uncle had hit a 5-10 the month before for 10 grand. Prior to that he was caught in a raid at the Rosarito Beach Hotel in the backroom casino.
He was making book out of this little store he had bought with the 5-10 money. The store was way out of town near the country. He sold produce,but in the backroom were the telephones where he made book.Everytime I went in that store the fruits and vegetables looked bad.
Shortly after he bought the store he came down with cancer.It was a long and painfull ordeal. No one came to the hospital but me and my sisters and my mother. She went everyday. I remember seeing him crying in the hospital bed. He said he didn't want to die in the hospital.
After suffering a long time there,he died. I remember my mother coming home crying. She told us that he had told the nurses that he had made his living as a professional prize fighter. My mother cried for a long time and kept repeating."He was just a boy."
He's been dead for quite some time now. Uncle Joe was my mother's brother.He was always mentioned as the black sheep.He had the biggest biceps I'd ever seen and his nose was broken in a dozen places. He used to like to move his nose around for us kids.
My mother had five sisters and two brothers. They all grew up in very tough times in the Patch which was the dago neighborhood in Chicago. The family was on relief during the 1920's. My grandmother on my mother's side had lost two husbands so there wasn't a breadwinner in the house.
My aunts all married non Italians except for my mother. My aunts' families turned out alright with all my cousins graduating from college. There was no divorces.My aunts worked all their lives as did their husbands. My aunts never seemed like Italians to me.
The boys on my mother's side were different. My Uncle Bob owned a bar on the Northside called "Little Hawaii."The bsr was formerly owned by a German. They still had the stain glass in the windows. My Uncle Joe named the bar Little Hawaii because the group he had in the joint was this Hawaiian band that wore grass skirts and did the hula. My Uncle Bob left his first wife for the girl singer in the band and they later got married and had my cousin Bobby. My mother told me that Uncle Bob's first wife was crushed.
The bar did a booming business during the war.My Uncle Joe. who was partners with his brother, went into the Army while Uncle Bob watched the bar. My Uncle Joe left his wife in Chicago while he was overseas. I guess when the war was over and my Uncle Joe came back,he found out that his wife was cheating on him.Well he threw her down a flight of stairs and that was it. Later ,the Hawaiian woman who married my Uncle Bob left him for someone else.
My Uncle Joe loved to gamble. He was what they called a degenerate gambler. He never owned a car ,and except when he lived with us after we moved to California,he always was residing in some flea bag hotel. Any money he could put aside so he gamble was worth it to him.
When he lived with us,he stayed in the back room. He would catch the bus and go to Tijuana. The bus took a long time to get to the border because of all the stops along the way. I'd hear him come in around sunrise. My father never liked the guy much. I don't think my Uncle Joe had anything against my father,but I know my father didn't like him much.
When my Uncle Joe worked,he worked in one of Bompansiero's joints downtown.
Bompansiro was loosely connected to the mob.Later the boys in Chicago found out he was a snitch and he got whacked. My Uncle Joe said he had to much class to work in one the Oriental bars downtown,but as far as I could tell all those places were the same: filled with gambling degenerates,pool hustlers,winos ,and whores.
My Uncle Joe was a good story teller and knew how to make everyone laugh. When he told stories about his army days during the war he never told any stories about being in battles because he would have been lying. My father,who was in big battles in the Pacific,would have called him out on that.
I remember when the Caliente Race Track in TJ banned him after they caught him with a telephone at the track How he got it in there is anyone's guess. This was the days before cell phones. His scam was like the movie,The Sting. He had a line with the Western Union guy and would lay down a bundle if the Western Union guy said a horse was way ahead in the stretch. Well the security got wind of it,but not after my uncle had hit a 5-10 the month before for 10 grand. Prior to that he was caught in a raid at the Rosarito Beach Hotel in the backroom casino.
He was making book out of this little store he had bought with the 5-10 money. The store was way out of town near the country. He sold produce,but in the backroom were the telephones where he made book.Everytime I went in that store the fruits and vegetables looked bad.
Shortly after he bought the store he came down with cancer.It was a long and painfull ordeal. No one came to the hospital but me and my sisters and my mother. She went everyday. I remember seeing him crying in the hospital bed. He said he didn't want to die in the hospital.
After suffering a long time there,he died. I remember my mother coming home crying. She told us that he had told the nurses that he had made his living as a professional prize fighter. My mother cried for a long time and kept repeating."He was just a boy."
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
CNorkusJr wrote:http://www.boxing.com/getting_hooked_on_boxing.html
This one's for Roger, from my friend Ted Sares.
Thanks Charley. I remember very little of that period in the 50's. My father was into the boxing scene in Chicago. My godfather was Mike Murphy,the timekeeper at the Chicago Stadium.Since the Outfit was in control in Chicago they also had an influence with boxing. My father said that many of the fights were fixed.It's funny to read on the forum about guys arguing about a fighter,let's say Bob Satterfield.They talk about his fights and how he would have stacked up against this guy or that guy.My father said that none of his fights in Chicago were on the level.Same with Ray Robinson. He carried many opponents when he fought in Chicago. Guys like Bobby Lee,Bobby Dykes, and Bernard Docusen. Carmen Basilio hated fighting in Chicago because he lost a lot of close fights. His managers Joe Mitro and Joey DeJohn were into the mob, behind with their gambling debts, so they would sell out Carmen.Fighting is and always will be a dirty racket.If a fighter ends up with his health and some money,it's a rarity.
Ray Robinson and Carmen Basilio
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Earl
I worked seven and a half years for the department of Weights and Measures for the County of San Diego.I drove a spray rig and was in charge of structural pest control. In other words I killed weeds and bugs for the County of San Diego. During my tenure I met a guy by the name of Earl Anderson.
Earl had some years on me .He was a good ol' boy from somewhere in the south. Earl was a real likable sort. He worked on the Weights and Measures end. He'd go out to make sure all the scales and gas pumps were calibrated correctly. One day we got around to talking boxing. Earl told me he used to be one of Bob Murphy's sparring partners and good friend.
Earl did some pro boxing for awhile,but had to give it up because of cuts.Earl didn't tell me that,but someone else who knew Earl did.
Bob Murphy had been dead for about 20 years,but Earl talked about the guy like was still around. Now I knew that Murphy came out of the amateurs in the Navy and began his pro career in San Diego. Geroge Radovich who ran the Arizona Bar and Cafe handled him as an amateur. Then Travis Hatfield who owned a sporting goods store downtown took over Murphy's pro career.
Murphy was a brawler inside and outside the ring and he loved to drink and spend his time with the women.This is what Radovich would tell me when I'd drop into his bar,but it was corraborated by all the other old timers who would belly up at the Arizona.Murphy had a line that it was no good to roll him because he'd blown all his money on booze and the dames.
Earl said that when he hung up his gloves,he followed Murphy around the boxing circuit.Murphy had a big left hand.He racked up a lot of knockouts.Jake LaMotta couldn't come out of his corner in a fight with Irish Bob because his ribs were busted up. In the rematch it was even until the ninth frame and then Jake found the Holy Grail. Murphy shut down all of a sudden and LaMotta got the decision. Jake must have been nervous about Murphy because he had his daddy in his corner for that fight.
Earl would always talk about fights that smelled funny like a kid talking about wanting candy. Earl said he went with Murphy to New York when he was matched with Joey Maxim for the light heavy title. Murphy was a big favorite.
Earl said he walked into Murphy's dressing room before the fight to wish him luck. Earl told me Murphy was cussing and ranting and smashing all the furniture in the place.Murphy told his friend to leave.
Well you can see that fight on Youtube or on ESPN Classics. A real ho hummer. Murphy followed Maxim around for 15 and went back to San Diego titleless.Earl told me the wise guys cleaned up. Besides there wasn't any money to be made with an Irishman from San Diego.
Murphy's boxing career gave way to his life in the bars and the cat houses.He broke his neck in a motorcycle accident back East in 1960. But Earl would talk about him like a kid talking about his big brother. I remember Earl telling me Murphy didn't like Italians for some reason. Earl said he was at the Copa with Murphy when Rocky Marciano walked in. The Irishman was feeling no pain. Murphy went up to Marciano and grabbed his shirt. They had to pull them apart. I could see why Earl missed him so much.
Rocky Marciano
I worked seven and a half years for the department of Weights and Measures for the County of San Diego.I drove a spray rig and was in charge of structural pest control. In other words I killed weeds and bugs for the County of San Diego. During my tenure I met a guy by the name of Earl Anderson.
Earl had some years on me .He was a good ol' boy from somewhere in the south. Earl was a real likable sort. He worked on the Weights and Measures end. He'd go out to make sure all the scales and gas pumps were calibrated correctly. One day we got around to talking boxing. Earl told me he used to be one of Bob Murphy's sparring partners and good friend.
Earl did some pro boxing for awhile,but had to give it up because of cuts.Earl didn't tell me that,but someone else who knew Earl did.
Bob Murphy had been dead for about 20 years,but Earl talked about the guy like was still around. Now I knew that Murphy came out of the amateurs in the Navy and began his pro career in San Diego. Geroge Radovich who ran the Arizona Bar and Cafe handled him as an amateur. Then Travis Hatfield who owned a sporting goods store downtown took over Murphy's pro career.
Murphy was a brawler inside and outside the ring and he loved to drink and spend his time with the women.This is what Radovich would tell me when I'd drop into his bar,but it was corraborated by all the other old timers who would belly up at the Arizona.Murphy had a line that it was no good to roll him because he'd blown all his money on booze and the dames.
Earl said that when he hung up his gloves,he followed Murphy around the boxing circuit.Murphy had a big left hand.He racked up a lot of knockouts.Jake LaMotta couldn't come out of his corner in a fight with Irish Bob because his ribs were busted up. In the rematch it was even until the ninth frame and then Jake found the Holy Grail. Murphy shut down all of a sudden and LaMotta got the decision. Jake must have been nervous about Murphy because he had his daddy in his corner for that fight.
Earl would always talk about fights that smelled funny like a kid talking about wanting candy. Earl said he went with Murphy to New York when he was matched with Joey Maxim for the light heavy title. Murphy was a big favorite.
Earl said he walked into Murphy's dressing room before the fight to wish him luck. Earl told me Murphy was cussing and ranting and smashing all the furniture in the place.Murphy told his friend to leave.
Well you can see that fight on Youtube or on ESPN Classics. A real ho hummer. Murphy followed Maxim around for 15 and went back to San Diego titleless.Earl told me the wise guys cleaned up. Besides there wasn't any money to be made with an Irishman from San Diego.
Murphy's boxing career gave way to his life in the bars and the cat houses.He broke his neck in a motorcycle accident back East in 1960. But Earl would talk about him like a kid talking about his big brother. I remember Earl telling me Murphy didn't like Italians for some reason. Earl said he was at the Copa with Murphy when Rocky Marciano walked in. The Irishman was feeling no pain. Murphy went up to Marciano and grabbed his shirt. They had to pull them apart. I could see why Earl missed him so much.
Rocky Marciano
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
True Roger. If you became Champion, somewhere along the line you had to play ball. You had to play ball to get a title shot. Depending on how you play it depends if you keep the title. Boxing trilogies were one of the biggest tip-offs of fixed fights. And again correctly, usually the boxer was poor because of bad money mgmt. Many times the handlers didnt pay the taxes for boxers and it would become apparent after their careers were over. Mostly all had health problems eventually because they fought almost monthly then if not more often.dagosd2000 wrote:CNorkusJr wrote:http://www.boxing.com/getting_hooked_on_boxing.html
This one's for Roger, from my friend Ted Sares.
Thanks Charley. I remember very little of that period in the 50's. My father was into the boxing scene in Chicago. My godfather was Mike Murphy,the timekeeper at the Chicago Stadium.Since the Outfit was in control in Chicago they also had an influence with boxing. My father said that many of the fights were fixed.It's funny to read on the forum about guys arguing about a fighter,let's say Bob Satterfield.They talk about his fights and how he would have stacked up against this guy or that guy.My father said that none of his fights in Chicago were on the level.Same with Ray Robinson. He carried many opponents when he fought in Chicago. Guys like Bobby Lee,Bobby Dykes, and Bernard Docusen. Carmen Basilio hated fighting in Chicago because he lost a lot of close fights. His managers Joe Mitro and Joey DeJohn were into the mob, behind with their gambling debts, so they would sell out Carmen.Fighting is and always will be a dirty racket.If a fighter ends up with his health and some money,it's a rarity.
Ray Robinson and Carmen Basilio
Todays fighters do get sick, but not by the rate as the older generations did because of fighting not as frequently or early stoppages by refs. Of course Jerry Quarry and Greg Page lives stand out as tragedies. Many become broke because of bad money mgmt. advice (or none at all) and having money leeches surround you; and their own greed for having the most expensive items that one can buy, all except health insurance,and long term investment packages. Some do well like Tim Witherspoon and De La Hoya because they got smart and became owners of fighters and play the game on the otherside now. But it was always a dirty sport with hands in all pockets. It is probably the number one factor that my father and mother never once pushed me into that field like some fathers do. They had higher hopes for me with an education.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
"El Boxeo" . . .
Alan Swyer's "El Boxeo" will screen at the WBC Annual Convention in Thailand on November 8th, and the following week (November 15th) will screen at the Puerto Rican Heritage Film Festival in Harlem. The premiere screening that we had in Santa Monica three weeks ago was "Cast & Crew" event, that we opened to the public for a small donation to the Retired Boxers Foundation.
In due course it will be bought by a distributor and released world wide, both in theaters and Television. Alan has already turned down HBO (whom he generally works with) with his sights set on wider distribution. Once it has been out for awhile, DVD's will become available, but that won't be for awhile.
Just about everybody who appeared in the film was invited to attend the screening event that I put on for the West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame. Those we did not reach, were instructed to contact me for their two tickets. Those who didn't will have to wait for the film to be released. It's a timeless piece of work and Mr. Swyer sees no reason to hurry the project into distribution, instead choosing to let it follow the film festival circuit internationally. It took five years to make the film, and it will likely be a couple years more before the world sees it. Anybody with a film festival connection might get to see it sooner.
-Rick Farris
Alan Swyer's "El Boxeo" will screen at the WBC Annual Convention in Thailand on November 8th, and the following week (November 15th) will screen at the Puerto Rican Heritage Film Festival in Harlem. The premiere screening that we had in Santa Monica three weeks ago was "Cast & Crew" event, that we opened to the public for a small donation to the Retired Boxers Foundation.
In due course it will be bought by a distributor and released world wide, both in theaters and Television. Alan has already turned down HBO (whom he generally works with) with his sights set on wider distribution. Once it has been out for awhile, DVD's will become available, but that won't be for awhile.
Just about everybody who appeared in the film was invited to attend the screening event that I put on for the West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame. Those we did not reach, were instructed to contact me for their two tickets. Those who didn't will have to wait for the film to be released. It's a timeless piece of work and Mr. Swyer sees no reason to hurry the project into distribution, instead choosing to let it follow the film festival circuit internationally. It took five years to make the film, and it will likely be a couple years more before the world sees it. Anybody with a film festival connection might get to see it sooner.
-Rick Farris
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Charley...I have wanted to strike up a conversation with you for some time. Since this is a "newspaper" heading topic, I think I'd like to offer up a few questions if you don't mind taking the time to answer. It must have given you a great feeling to be a part of the history of that place! First sold out boxing card....I can only imagine how you felt going in.CNorkusJr wrote:THe Miami Beach Auditorium today.(2010) Now called the The Fillmore Theatre at The Jackie Gleason Centre for Performing Arts. Same location.
Historical building held many great fights but was re-habbed years ago to now house concerts and plays on stage. Interior seating looks nothing like the old boxing and sports arena it once was. THe Miami Beach Convention is not too far away which was used for larger audiences for title fights or the original Orange Bowl, which held Joey Maxim vs Archie Moore title fight in 1954.
Here is one of those fights from the Miami Beach Aud. 1954. The first time the Miami Beach Aud. was ever Sold Out for a fight.
Promoted by Chris Dundee for Madison Sq Garden Productions then. Look for Angelo Dundee in Norkus's corner as cutman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuNaRa5iCco
I have some questions...hope you don't mind following up here.
1. Any film of that first fight?
Lawdy that must have been John Wayne Saloon Style Brawl lol. Looks like you both may have gone in the second time with a more safety first strategy....although you through an uppercut in the last round, that had it landed, it look like it would have taken his head off. But he could not take advantage of the momentary opening you left him. You clearly won that fight.
2. Since you went the distance with Ezz and Archie, would you mind commenting on who you thought was the better fighter?
Going the distance with both Archie and Ezzard.....it's stupefying to think you battled these legends to the last moment. I am simply in awe of this achievement.
3, Hurricane Jackson and Roland Lastarza......mind throwing out some comments on these fighters, and those fights?
Your political record may be second to none...lol (You are forgiven for beating the father of our country twice, Taking on and beating both Kennedy and Johnson, not to mention apparently having deserved the win over Harrison, leaving only Jackson as a Presidential name that may have gotten the better of you. I want to ask you this.
4. Would you consider coming out of retirement, and teaching a lesson to Obama and Biden?
Ok all kidding aside, what a record of achievement! I just want to take a moment and express my respect, and salute you sir!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
BoxBuzz wrote:Charley...I have wanted to strike up a conversation with you for some time. Since this is a "newspaper" heading topic, I think I'd like to offer up a few questions if you don't mind taking the time to answer. It must have given you a great feeling to be a part of the history of that place! First sold out boxing card....I can only imagine how you felt going in.
I have some questions...hope you don't mind following up here.
1. Any film of that first fight?
Lawdy that must have been John Wayne Saloon Style Brawl lol. Looks like you both may have gone in the second time with a more safety first strategy....although you through an uppercut in the last round, that had it landed, it look like it would have taken his head off. But he could not take advantage of the momentary opening you left him. You clearly won that fight.
2. Since you went the distance with Ezz and Archie, would you mind commenting on who you thought was the better fighter?
Going the distance with both Archie and Ezzard.....it's stupefying to think you battled these legends to the last moment. I am simply in awe of this achievement.
3, Hurricane Jackson and Roland Lastarza......mind throwing out some comments on these fighters, and those fights?
Your political record may be second to none...lol (You are forgiven for beating the father of our country twice, Taking on and beating both Kennedy and Johnson, not to mention apparently having deserved the win over Harrison, leaving only Jackson as a Presidential name that may have gotten the better of you. I want to ask you this.
4. Would you consider coming out of retirement, and teaching a lesson to Obama and Biden?
Ok all kidding aside, what a record of achievement! I just want to take a moment and express my respect, and salute you sir!
Kenneth, a word of advice. CNorkus junior is the boxer's son.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Dear BoxBuzz, I do Thank You for your kind comments on the preceding "Quote". I should inform all that this particular page I wrote concerning Miami Beach Aud was posted on the "Miami Beach Herald Article" thread a few lines down from this thread yesterday. This is a California thread.
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=172111
Secondly, it sounds as if you are addressing my father, the boxer. Thank You again for your kind comments and interesting questions about his career, but my father passed in 1996. (1928-1996) Pro fighter 1948-1959. Pro Ref 1974-1994.
I am Charlie Norkus Jr, his son and only child. I address many of those questions with answers my father gave me on his thread I posted starting 2 or 3 years ago and can be found at the link below.
"Charles Norkus, Friends and Foes"
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=118618
Thank You all for your kind patience here. Charlie Jr.
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=172111
Secondly, it sounds as if you are addressing my father, the boxer. Thank You again for your kind comments and interesting questions about his career, but my father passed in 1996. (1928-1996) Pro fighter 1948-1959. Pro Ref 1974-1994.
I am Charlie Norkus Jr, his son and only child. I address many of those questions with answers my father gave me on his thread I posted starting 2 or 3 years ago and can be found at the link below.
"Charles Norkus, Friends and Foes"
http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=118618
Thank You all for your kind patience here. Charlie Jr.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Gian will take much happiness in my clumsy nature here. In this case his "advice" is appreciated.
I had honestly thought it had been your father posting these many times.
I ask forgiveness, as I find I often must do in life. lol.
A burning question, even after reading the thread, and catching up. Are there pics, or motion pictures of that first fight?
I had honestly thought it had been your father posting these many times.
I ask forgiveness, as I find I often must do in life. lol.
A burning question, even after reading the thread, and catching up. Are there pics, or motion pictures of that first fight?
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Yes, please go to the Miami thread or my fathers link.BoxBuzz wrote:Gian will take much happiness in my clumsy nature here. In this case his "advice" is appreciated.
I had honestly thought it had been your father posting these many times.
I ask forgiveness, as I find I often must do in life. lol.
A burning question, even after reading the thread, and catching up. Are there pics, or motion pictures of that first fight?
Norkus vs Nardico 1- no sound-full fight
Norkus coming out of left near-side corner.
Brutal fight. First 3 rows covered in blood splatter. B/W film doesnt do it justice.
For rematch, long sheets of clear plastic was handed out by Chris Dundee to first few rows to cover their clothes for anticipation of another blood bath like the first. That didnt happen.
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oagovQgs8
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I'll try to get exact location of Puerto Rican Film Festival and post here. Glad to see it is making the rounds. Congratulations Rick and Alan.El Gallo wrote:"El Boxeo" . . .
Alan Swyer's "El Boxeo" will screen at the WBC Annual Convention in Thailand on November 8th, and the following week (November 15th) will screen at the Puerto Rican Heritage Film Festival in Harlem. The premiere screening that we had in Santa Monica three weeks ago was "Cast & Crew" event, that we opened to the public for a small donation to the Retired Boxers Foundation.
In due course it will be bought by a distributor and released world wide, both in theaters and Television. Alan has already turned down HBO (whom he generally works with) with his sights set on wider distribution. Once it has been out for awhile, DVD's will become available, but that won't be for awhile.
Just about everybody who appeared in the film was invited to attend the screening event that I put on for the West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame. Those we did not reach, were instructed to contact me for their two tickets. Those who didn't will have to wait for the film to be released. It's a timeless piece of work and Mr. Swyer sees no reason to hurry the project into distribution, instead choosing to let it follow the film festival circuit internationally. It took five years to make the film, and it will likely be a couple years more before the world sees it. Anybody with a film festival connection might get to see it sooner.
-Rick Farris
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I Want To Be Bobby's Girl
My old principal at my my last site went to school with Bobby Chacon up in Pacoima. My principal's name was Sam Montes. I transferred over to his school because the principal at my old school forced me out. This idiot somehow got it in his head that I was going to kill him. Said the word was out that I was going to kill him. To make a long story short(and I may write about it later)I told him if I was going to kill him I wouldn't put the word out. By the way,this guy married his 8th grade student when he was a teacher at a middle school.
Anyway, Sam Montes was a big fan of Bobby's. He said Bobby got into a fight everyday at school,or if it wasn't at school it was in the back lot behind the liquor store,or anyplace out on the street. But Sam told me that Bobby was a good friend to Sam and his brother. When Bobby turned pro they went to a lot of his fights. They saw Bobby go through Little Red. I remember that know it all Larry Merchant doing a story on the after careers of Bobby and Danny. Merchant is interviewing Danny and alludes that Danny ,in the long run,beat Bobby because we all know Bobby isn't right. Danny being a stand up guy and a man shakes his head and says to Mr. Ego Trip,"Oh no,he beat me alright."
When Danny went to war with Olivares the first time Sam told me his heart sank when El Puas made short work of Bobby in two. I painted a portrait of Bobby and gave it to Sam when he retired. He told me it was hanging in his gameroom.
Those of us who attend the various boxing events in the Southland can usually see Bobby with his caretaker Rosie. I like to think of her more than that though. She protects him and tries to fend away the creeps.
My pal Rick Farris told me that Don fraser didn't want him on the dais at the last CBHOF banquet because Bobby was "embarrassing." Bobby acts like a little kid. He seems harmless,but you never know. Rick told me at one of the WBHOF banquets Bobby wanted to go after George Chuvalo over a ball point pen.
I remember Bobby sitting next to Big George at the autograph table at the WBHOF banquet. I don't remember seeing Rosie sitting beside Bobby. Good thing.I'm sure that George would have had more on his hands than just Bobby.
I painted a portrait of Bobby and gave it to him at the WBHOF banquet.The photo is Bobby's way of thanking me. When I saw Bobby last month at the premier of "El Boxeo" in Santa Monica,I asked him if he still had the portrait. He looked puzzled. Rosie had his arm and smiled at me and nodded. Good girl this Rosie
Bobby
My old principal at my my last site went to school with Bobby Chacon up in Pacoima. My principal's name was Sam Montes. I transferred over to his school because the principal at my old school forced me out. This idiot somehow got it in his head that I was going to kill him. Said the word was out that I was going to kill him. To make a long story short(and I may write about it later)I told him if I was going to kill him I wouldn't put the word out. By the way,this guy married his 8th grade student when he was a teacher at a middle school.
Anyway, Sam Montes was a big fan of Bobby's. He said Bobby got into a fight everyday at school,or if it wasn't at school it was in the back lot behind the liquor store,or anyplace out on the street. But Sam told me that Bobby was a good friend to Sam and his brother. When Bobby turned pro they went to a lot of his fights. They saw Bobby go through Little Red. I remember that know it all Larry Merchant doing a story on the after careers of Bobby and Danny. Merchant is interviewing Danny and alludes that Danny ,in the long run,beat Bobby because we all know Bobby isn't right. Danny being a stand up guy and a man shakes his head and says to Mr. Ego Trip,"Oh no,he beat me alright."
When Danny went to war with Olivares the first time Sam told me his heart sank when El Puas made short work of Bobby in two. I painted a portrait of Bobby and gave it to Sam when he retired. He told me it was hanging in his gameroom.
Those of us who attend the various boxing events in the Southland can usually see Bobby with his caretaker Rosie. I like to think of her more than that though. She protects him and tries to fend away the creeps.
My pal Rick Farris told me that Don fraser didn't want him on the dais at the last CBHOF banquet because Bobby was "embarrassing." Bobby acts like a little kid. He seems harmless,but you never know. Rick told me at one of the WBHOF banquets Bobby wanted to go after George Chuvalo over a ball point pen.
I remember Bobby sitting next to Big George at the autograph table at the WBHOF banquet. I don't remember seeing Rosie sitting beside Bobby. Good thing.I'm sure that George would have had more on his hands than just Bobby.
I painted a portrait of Bobby and gave it to him at the WBHOF banquet.The photo is Bobby's way of thanking me. When I saw Bobby last month at the premier of "El Boxeo" in Santa Monica,I asked him if he still had the portrait. He looked puzzled. Rosie had his arm and smiled at me and nodded. Good girl this Rosie
Bobby
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Bobby and Rosie
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Great Post Roger. Bobby looks great in pictures.dagosd2000 wrote:I Want To Be Bobby's Girl
My old principal at my my last site went to school with Bobby Chacon up in Pacoima. My principal's name was Sam Montes. I transferred over to his school because the principal at my old school forced me out. This idiot somehow got it in his head that I was going to kill him. Said the word was out that I was going to kill him. To make a long story short(and I may write about it later)I told him if I was going to kill him I wouldn't put the word out. By the way,this guy married his 8th grade student when he was a teacher at a middle school.
Anyway, Sam Montes was a big fan of Bobby's. He said Bobby got into a fight everyday at school,or if it wasn't at school it was in the back lot behind the liquor store,or anyplace out on the street. But Sam told me that Bobby was a good friend to Sam and his brother. When Bobby turned pro they went to a lot of his fights. They saw Bobby go through Little Red. I remember that know it all Larry Merchant doing a story on the after careers of Bobby and Danny. Merchant is interviewing Danny and alludes that Danny ,in the long run,beat Bobby because we all know Bobby isn't right. Danny being a stand up guy and a man shakes his head and says to Mr. Ego Trip,"Oh no,he beat me alright."
When Danny went to war with Olivares the first time Sam told me his heart sank when El Puas made short work of Bobby in two. I painted a portrait of Bobby and gave it to Sam when he retired. He told me it was hanging in his gameroom.
Those of us who attend the various boxing events in the Southland can usually see Bobby with his caretaker Rosie. I like to think of her more than that though. She protects him and tries to fend away the creeps.
My pal Rick Farris told me that Don fraser didn't want him on the dais at the last CBHOF banquet because Bobby was "embarrassing." Bobby acts like a little kid. He seems harmless,but you never know. Rick told me at one of the WBHOF banquets Bobby wanted to go after George Chuvalo over a ball point pen.
I remember Bobby sitting next to Big George at the autograph table at the WBHOF banquet. I don't remember seeing Rosie sitting beside Bobby. Good thing.I'm sure that George would have had more on his hands than just Bobby.
I painted a portrait of Bobby and gave it to him at the WBHOF banquet.The photo is Bobby's way of thanking me. When I saw Bobby last month at the premier of "El Boxeo" in Santa Monica,I asked him if he still had the portrait. He looked puzzled. Rosie had his arm and smiled at me and nodded. Good girl this Rosie
Bobby
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Fathers who push their sons into boxing . . .
One thing the film "El Boxeo" exposed was the dangers of having a father work the corner of a son in the ring.
As Jimmy Lennon Jr. said in the film . . . "Good things don't happen when Dad is in the corner!"
True story! In most cases, the fahers were not professional boxers, and live out their dreams through their sons.
In the end, when the sons begin to show the permanent damage from trying to live out dad's dreams, the fathers refuse to assume responsibility for their part in the damage.
As a result, WBC President Jose Suliaman says the WBC will not allow a father to work the corner of their son.
I'm not sure if that rule (written in the WBC rules) is enforced?
One thing the film "El Boxeo" exposed was the dangers of having a father work the corner of a son in the ring.
As Jimmy Lennon Jr. said in the film . . . "Good things don't happen when Dad is in the corner!"
True story! In most cases, the fahers were not professional boxers, and live out their dreams through their sons.
In the end, when the sons begin to show the permanent damage from trying to live out dad's dreams, the fathers refuse to assume responsibility for their part in the damage.
As a result, WBC President Jose Suliaman says the WBC will not allow a father to work the corner of their son.
I'm not sure if that rule (written in the WBC rules) is enforced?
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rick- While I have great reservations about having fathers acting as managers, trainers or cornermen for their children who are boxers, there are some who know the business well and have a positive influence. Moreover, I wonder if a rule prohibiting fathers acting in such capacities for their children is constitutional in the U.S.
I do agree that no child should be pushed into the fight game by any parent. Being a boxer should be an entirely voluntary choice.
- Chuck Johnston
I do agree that no child should be pushed into the fight game by any parent. Being a boxer should be an entirely voluntary choice.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Chuck1052 wrote:Rick- While I have great reservations about having fathers acting as managers, trainers or cornermen for their children who are boxers, there are some who know the business well and have a positive influence. Moreover, I wonder if a rule prohibiting fathers acting in such capacities for their children is constitutional in the U.S.
I do agree that no child should be pushed into the fight game by any parent. Being a boxer should be an entirely voluntary choice.
- Chuck Johnston
When a child is put into a boxing ring at the age of 3 or 4, and is encouraged to box professionally by the age of 18, they are being guided by an irresponsible father that has issues regarding his own ego. That is the case 99% of the time. This is especially so when the father has boxed and knows boxing, yet did not have what it takes to try the pro ranks themselves. I loved boxing, turned pro at 18 myself, but my father did not push me to do this. It was something I had to beg to do, and as not allowed until my school grades were acceptable. My father was not a serious boxing fan and had no issues that made him feel more like a man because his son was a prizefighter.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
El Gallo wrote:Chuck1052 wrote:Rick- While I have great reservations about having fathers acting as managers, trainers or cornermen for their children who are boxers, there are some who know the business well and have a positive influence. Moreover, I wonder if a rule prohibiting fathers acting in such capacities for their children is constitutional in the U.S.
I do agree that no child should be pushed into the fight game by any parent. Being a boxer should be an entirely voluntary choice.
- Chuck Johnston
When a child is put into a boxing ring at the age of 3 or 4, and is encouraged to box professionally by the age of 18, they are being guided by an irresponsible father that has issues regarding his own ego. That is the case 99% of the time. This is especially so when the father has boxed and knows boxing, yet did not have what it takes to try the pro ranks themselves. I loved boxing, turned pro at 18 myself, but my father did not push me to do this. It was something I had to beg to do, and as not allowed until my school grades were acceptable. My father was not a serious boxing fan and had no issues that made him feel more like a man because his son was a prizefighter.
Something Might Have Happened
"It's a company policy now that kids under 18 can only make contact to the body",said my grandson's trainer on Friday nights at the San Diego Combat Academy.
My grandson Adam,who is going to turn 14 in November,has been training at the San Diego Combat Academy near his house.Tiger Smalls trains him twice a week and Jim works with him Monday,Wednesday,and Fridays. Both Tiger and Jim know what they are doing. Tiger had his experience in the boxing ring. Jim is currently fighting MMA and is building a an impressive record. I'm comfortable with them. They don't do anything stupid.
"I'm going to talk with the boss about getting back to where it was before,"said Jim to me.
I didn't want to ask why the change,but there had to be a reason. I watched my grandson put on his wraps,insert his mouthgard,and work on his headgear.Adam was to spar a round with a new kid who was a year older and had about 20 pounds on him.
The new kid's body was soft. Prior to the sparring session ,Jim asked Adam to show the new kid how to transfer his weight when throwing a hook on the heavy bag while Jim was with two of the adults. I felt a little proud.It wasn't that long ago that Adam was reluctant to participate in any physical contact sport.Adam has been faithfully going to the gym for the last eight months. He's catching on fast and likes the training.Adam doesn't waste unnecessary energy in the ring and I think that's important. It came natural to him. Adam likes Jim and he likes Tiger.
At the buzzer new kid went after Adam pretty good,but Adam would slip away from him.When the new kid would leave openings Adam would whack him to the body. Adam told me before they got in the ring that he'd take it easy on him,but he would also let the new kid who was boss. After a couple of left hooks to the side the new kid turned southpaw. Adam would tie him up on the inside,break,and whack the new kid with some combinations.Adam was moving his head and shoulders not wasting any gas.
They sparred two more rounds between breaks.Adam hardly broke a sweat. After it was over the new kid went to the drinking fountain and sprawled out on the mat.
"You looked good Adam,"I said after the session was over.
"Jim is going to talk to the owner about letting us go to the head again."
"I think something might have happened the other night."
Earlier in the week I saw two Mexican fathers bring their sons into the ring.The kids looked to be around seven years old.The fathers looked like they had just gotten off work because they were still in their workclothes. Aside from boxing gloves the boys weren't wearing any protective gear. I was surprised no one said anything. The fathers were hanging over the ropes screaming at their boys.The kids were windmilling their punches. I looked around to see if anyone else was watching this. There were two female trainers that glanced up at the ring and then turned away. Meanwhile the fathers were screaming for their sons to demolish each other.The kids kept flailing at each other with their eyes closed.
One kid ran into the other kid's glove and tore his lip. The blood started to pour down his chin. The fathers let it go. Finally the kid with split lip began crying. The kid's father climbed through the ropes and told him stop crying and be a man.The kid tried to stop crying,but he couldn't keep it in.
I don't know. Maybe the kid didn't want to get in there in the first place. I'm sure if he didn't want to get in there,his father said otherwise.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Archie Moore
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Roberto Duran: Redemption and Legacy
Something I learned years ago, both as an old adage and as a life experience is that “To err is human”, and perhaps the best example of this is Roberto Duran's second fight with Sugar Ray Leonard, when he uttered the now infamous words “No Mas!”, literally translated “No More!”
Duran, at his peak, was the epitome of Latin Machismo. Unrelenting, primal and savage. His behavior inside and outside the ring was often times crude. He conceded nothing. Yet, the very second he spoke those words, all that he was, was no more. His career was thought to be over. He was expected to never fight again. For a time, it seemed the entire boxing world; fans, sports writers, contemporary boxers and everyone capable of expressing an opinion, turned their collective backs on Roberto Duran. Even trainer Ray Arcel turned his back on Duran, never again working the corner for Duran. No other fighter in boxing history, to my knowledge, had fallen so far. Even Mike Tyson's biting of Evander Holifield's ear pales by comparison.
We may never really know why Duran quit that night in New Orleans but the fact remains he did and it is beyond dispute. Maybe he needed a bowel movement, or maybe it was just complete frustration, or maybe it was something sinister. I don't know. No one does. Everything is just pure speculation.
What I do know, what I am absolutely certain of, is that Roberto Duran is no coward. This is the man who moved up to welterweight after a seven year reign, as perhaps the greatest lightweight champion that ever lived, to pursue the Welterweight title, beating west coast favorite former welterweight king, Carlos Palomino, and tough Monroe Brookes, before finally securing a title fight with Sugar Ray Leonard, and winning that fight. He had already proven himself countless times.
He would prove himself again, after the second fight with Leonard, but not before being humbled by Wilfredo Benitez and Kirkland Laing. The year immediately following his 1981 loss to Leonard was a dark time for Duran. For Duran 1981 and1982 was a short visit through hell.
After his back to back losses to Benitez and Laing Duran fought and beat Jimmy Batten. His next fight, in January of 1983, would be at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles against legendary puncher and former welterweight champ Pipino Cuevas. Duran stopped Cuevas in four and secured a fight with Junior middleweight champion Davey Moore, stopping Moore in eight rounds, and finding some redemption in the process. The world was ready to forgive and Duran was once again in the business of being Duran. Maybe not the same old Duran of the past, some of the fire was gone but it was enough to take Marvin Hagler, later that same year, to the 15th round and giving him an education in a close losing effort. Cuevas, Moore and Hagler in the same year. It just doesn't get any better than that.
In his next fight, he would be stopped by Tommy Hearns, in what has to be considered the most devastating loss of his career, he would have many more fights before winning the Middleweight title from Iran Barkley. The Barkley fight would be his last hurrah. He would have his last fight at the age of fifty, losing a 12 round unanimous decision against Hector Camacho.
Today boxers are fighting well into their thirties and forties but back in the day, the late twenties were considered old, or at least the beginning of old age for a fighter. That makes the later stages of Duran's career all the more remarkable. At that stage, with no catch weights (unheard of) Duran moved up and fought Carlos Palomino, Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Iran Barkley and at an even later stage, Vinnie Pazienza (twice and Hector Camacho (twice).
Yes, quitting is a cardinal sin in boxing and Duran has paid the price. A sin is like a stain on a fine piece of furniture, it can't be rubbed out or sanded out, it cannot be erased, it will always be there. There are some that will see nothing but the stain regardless of the beauty of the furniture and there will be others that will see that fine piece of furniture for what it is, weathered, worn and with a fine patina to it. Hardened by the years Duran has worn that stain like a man.
When I think of Roberto Duran, I don't think about the man that quit in the 8th round of his fight with Sugar Ray Leonard. What I think about is a man who by one single act, destroyed his career and then found it in himself to rise up again, to persevere, shouldering the abandonment of of friends and peers and even his country, to fight his way back to the top, stains and all. No fighter ever fell lower and no fighter ever climbed higher. That is his redemption and that is his legacy. Roberto Duran a quitter? You decide.
Last edited by Randyman on 03 Oct 2013, 15:54, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rog, I would have it appraised by someone who knows the business. It's a TV show, maybe that one was fake, at any rate I would look into it. by the way, Jeri and I are hooked on that show. I saw the show you were talking about. The other two cards were Dempsey and Carpentier.dagosd2000 wrote:
Jack Johnson
At Auction
There's a slew of programs on television where people bring in their junk that's been lying around the garage or in the attic and bring them to places to get appraised or to sell. We've all seen Pawn Stars and I have to hand it to that family who runs that hock shop. They're making a mint,but not so much about the stuff they sell,but it's the network rights is what's bringing in the coin. I heard Rick Harrison,who sold his idea to the History Channel,say that all the other pawn shops in Vegas are taking the economic hit. He must have been pretty bright to see ahead to sell the idea to television. Along with his father ,son,and nephew the show is very entrtaining.
The other night I'm watching it and this guy brings in an old postcard with Jack Johnson's signature on the back.Rick is interesteed,but he wants to get the John Hancock authorized so he brings in his buddy from PSA(the autograph experts).
His buddy brings along with him a real signature of Johnson along with some kind of x-ray device and a maginifying glass. Sure enough,it's the real deal and he says that Lil' Arthur's signature is very valuable and rare. Well the guy that brought it in wants top dollar because the expert says the postcard is worth a thousand bucks at auction. The guy who brought it in of course wants a thousand. . Rick shakes his head and says that he'll have to put it in a frame and so forth and that will take time,so he offers 5.They settle on 6 and shake hands.
You might want to know why I'm running this by you. Well,it's because i have a Jack Johnson autograph. At least I thought I had one. A real one. I bought it on eBay. Shame on me.I looked at the real one on the Pawn Stars episode and my Jack Johnson was probably signed by Jack in the Beanstalk. I won't tell you what I paid for it,but at least I have enough pride not to pawn it off on anybody else.
