Zora Folley vs. Sonny Liston

[klompton]

More spam...


"Let me post and repost something that is completely inaccurate in the hopes that people will believe it." -Il Douche.

$110,000 was the anticipated gate of the bout being held at the Coliseum. Every source supports that. Your continued bellowing otherwise will not change that fact. Anyone wanting to double check this will find that you are wrong and simply trying to muddy the waters to make yourself look like a contemporary expert. Feeble. Feeble.

[klompton]

That all may or may not be true but once again it does nothing to refute the fact that the hoped for gate of $110,000 was in reference to the coliseum, not the mile high stadium. Your adding this little figment along with spamming this post in a seperate thread from one which was already dedicated to this fight was a transparent attempt at creating the illusion that if a 25,000 seat arena could only do a gate of $110,000 then a gate of $90,000 (which didnt even happen) would look like a success in an arena half that size (i.e. the coliseum). Problem is that a full house at the coliseum would gross the $110,000, not the mile high stadium and Wilner didnt gross $90,000 anywhere, he grossed just over $77,000. You are once again following the belief that if you repeat something often enough, in enough places, to enough people it becomes true. Not so. It is no more true here, than it was in the other thread. Like I said: Spam.

[klompton]

Once again you are wrong.

The bout was signed on May 24, 1960 during the fight between Victor Zalazar and Yama Bahama. The Coliseum was already licensed for the event at a cost of $10,000. In the AP report that you mention, which I cite below, there is no reference to the anticipated gate (certainly not at 14,000). Busted once again bending the truth to try to cover your previous lies.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VT ... %2C2251008

Up until the night of the fight the gate was being quoted as $110,000 for a full house of 11,400 (a figure you didnt use until after I quoted it). These are Milt Wilner's words not mine.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TN ... 3%2C399684

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Kk ... %2C6152170

Your point about Barrone is incorrect as well. You pretend that Barone knew the coliseum couldnt do $110,000 so he took a guarantee of $25,000. This is wrong. The contract stated that Liston recieved a guarantee of $25,000 WITH the privilege of taking 25% of the gate (read the above article). Once again, these are Milt Wilner's words not mine. That means if the gate did over $100,000 (i.e. $110,000 as a full house would do) then Liston could opt for the percentage, which would have been larger than his $25,000. Why would that option be placed in the contract if they didnt expect the gate to go over $100,000? So in fact, as anyone who can read can see, the terms of the contract support my argument, not yours. Its all there in black and white and no matter how much you puff your chest out and blow you cant change that. No matter how hard you twist and squirm you still cant get the facts to support you.

[Giancarlo]

[klompton]

[ThatOne]

.

[ThatOne]

Once again you are wrong.

The bout was signed on May 24, 1960 during the fight between Victor Zalazar and Yama Bahama. The Coliseum was already licensed for the event at a cost of $10,000. In the AP report that you mention, which I cite below, there is no reference to the anticipated gate (certainly not at 14,000). Busted once again bending the truth to try to cover your previous lies.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VT ... %2C2251008

Up until the night of the fight the gate was being quoted as $110,000 for a full house of 11,400 (a figure you didnt use until after I quoted it).

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TN ... 3%2C399684

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Kk ... %2C6152170

Your point about Barrone is incorrect as well. You pretend that Barone knew the coliseum couldnt do $110,000 so he took a guarantee of $25,000. This is wrong. The contract stated that Liston recieved a guarantee of $25,000 WITH the privilege of taking 25% of the gate (read the above article). That means if the gate did over $100,000 (i.e. $110,000 as a full house would do) then Liston could opt for the percentage, which would have been larger than his $25,000. Why would that option be placed in the contract if they didnt expect the gate to go over $100,000? So in fact, as anyone who can read can see, the terms of the contract support my argument, not yours. Its all there in black and white and no matter how much you puff your chest out and blow you cant change that. No matter how hard you twist and squirm you still cant get the facts to support you.

Would it be fair to say that you believe Il Duce is a veritable fount of misinformation?

[klompton]

Once again you are wrong.

The bout was signed on May 24, 1960 during the fight between Victor Zalazar and Yama Bahama. The Coliseum was already licensed for the event at a cost of $10,000. In the AP report that you mention, which I cite below, there is no reference to the anticipated gate (certainly not at 14,000). Busted once again bending the truth to try to cover your previous lies.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VT ... %2C2251008

Up until the night of the fight the gate was being quoted as $110,000 for a full house of 11,400 (a figure you didnt use until after I quoted it).

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TN ... 3%2C399684

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Kk ... %2C6152170

Your point about Barrone is incorrect as well. You pretend that Barone knew the coliseum couldnt do $110,000 so he took a guarantee of $25,000. This is wrong. The contract stated that Liston recieved a guarantee of $25,000 WITH the privilege of taking 25% of the gate (read the above article). That means if the gate did over $100,000 (i.e. $110,000 as a full house would do) then Liston could opt for the percentage, which would have been larger than his $25,000. Why would that option be placed in the contract if they didnt expect the gate to go over $100,000? So in fact, as anyone who can read can see, the terms of the contract support my argument, not yours. Its all there in black and white and no matter how much you puff your chest out and blow you cant change that. No matter how hard you twist and squirm you still cant get the facts to support you.

Would it be fair to say that you believe Il Duce is a veritable fount of misinformation?

I think that would be an understatement.

[ThatOne]

Giancarlo, I believe you will be 'banned' for that one.

You offer no opinion, other than 'crude posts'...........that are 'Third Rate'.

It's all in good fun, mate....

[Giancarlo]

Giancarlo, I believe you will be 'banned' for that one.

You offer no opinion, other than 'crude posts'...........that are 'Third Rate'.

I thought up another one. I might have Joe Frazier quoting this:

"Il Duce? I remember him. A funny little chap who hung around the gym and who used to claim his dad had been a general in the Italian army. He brought in a medal that he reckoned the old guy had won for bravery. One of the fighters translated the inscription and it was an award for 3rd place in a Liberace lookalike contest. What's Il Duce up to these days?"

[yancey]

Giancarlo, I believe you will be 'banned' for that one.

You offer no opinion, other than 'crude posts'...........that are 'Third Rate'.

Agree, ban that sick little mutt giancarlo.

The fetid smell from that diseased queen is nearly as bad as the putrid stench that still emits from Miami Beach and Lewiston, Maine.

Wonder if there is a connection?

[ThatOne]

Giancarlo, I believe you will be 'banned' for that one.

You offer no opinion, other than 'crude posts'...........that are 'Third Rate'.

It's all in good fun, mate....

Mr. That One,,,,,,,,,,you're a good sport and so is Mr. Klompton,,,,,,,

But neither of you cross the line that far..........

I could easily post a Photo of Muhammad Ali with a disparaging counter remark......
but that would be Low-Rent/Trailer-Trash Junk.

Say 'BYE-BYE' to Giancarlo...........Unless you need him around for a 'Class Clown'

With your 'wit and humor'........you don't need that 'Imbecile' hanging on to your posts.

I think you should try to engage him. Isn't that what the gentleman you chose for a moniker would do?

[Giancarlo]

Giancarlo, I believe you will be 'banned' for that one.

You offer no opinion, other than 'crude posts'...........that are 'Third Rate'.

Agree, ban that sick little mutt giancarlo.

The fetid smell from that diseased queen is nearly as bad as the putrid stench that still emits from Miami Beach and Lewiston, Maine.

Wonder if there is a connection?

Nancey, don't delete your homophobic racist posts just because they embarress you; you know we find them interesting.

[ThatOne]

Giancarlo, I believe you will be 'banned' for that one.

You offer no opinion, other than 'crude posts'...........that are 'Third Rate'.

Agree, ban that sick little mutt giancarlo.

The fetid smell from that diseased queen is nearly as bad as the putrid stench that still emits from Miami Beach and Lewiston, Maine.

Wonder if there is a connection?

I don't think the poster known as Giancarlo will let that go unanswered but we'll see...

[ThatOne]

I believe you gentlemen should have a Beer Summit to work out your differences:

[Giancarlo]

You See Giancarlo,

Mr. Yancey and That One, both post with some wit.........

You sir,,,,

Are, a "Midget Freak in a Circus Sideshow that rides Ferris Wheels by Himself with no clothes on."

Bullsh!t, I always, repeat ALWAYS, wear a bowler hat when out in public.

[ThatOne]

You See Giancarlo,

Mr. Yancey and That One, both post with some wit.........

You sir,,,,

Are, a "Midget Freak in a Circus Sideshow that rides Ferris Wheels by Himself with no clothes on."

If there was a Beer Summit and klompton and i were the slim guys on the far left and far right which one would you and yancey be?

[Giancarlo]

You See Giancarlo,

Mr. Yancey and That One, both post with some wit.........

You sir,,,,

Are, a "Midget Freak in a Circus Sideshow that rides Ferris Wheels by Himself with no clothes on."

If there was a Beer Summit and klompton and i were the slim guys on the far left and far right which one would you and yancey be?

I think you'd be able to recognise them.

One is the son of a Liberace impersonator according to what I have read in this thread. He also has a club foot according to Muhammad Ali.

And the other one will have a white sheet on and ask that you to refer to him as "Grand Wizard".

[ThatOne]

You See Giancarlo,

Mr. Yancey and That One, both post with some wit.........

You sir,,,,

Are, a "Midget Freak in a Circus Sideshow that rides Ferris Wheels by Himself with no clothes on."

If there was a Beer Summit and klompton and i were the slim guys on the far left and far right which one would you and yancey be?

I think you'd be able to recognise them.

One is the son of a Liberace impersonator according to what I have read in this thread. He also has a club foot according to Muhammad Ali.

And the other one will have a white sheet on and ask that you to refer to him as "Grand Wizard".

Are you suggesting the two would fight over who would not be the black one?

[Giancarlo]

Let's get back to the Liberace lookalike contest that Joe Frazier mentioned your old fella came 3rd in.

Can you post a picture of the medallion?

[klompton]

Why do you keep lying? How stupid do you think we are?


Lie #1 You have no idea what ticket prices were going to be for the Mile High Stadium, or what the seating would have been. It was never announced because that plan was scrapped before the fight was ever signed.

Lie #2 Nobody "knew it was not possible to gross $110,000 at the coliseum." If that were the case why was all of the press quoting that figure up until the day of the fight? why was Milt Wilner quoting that figure up until the day of the fight? Why was a percentage option based on that figure written into the contract based upon the seating and ticket prices for the event AS THEY WERE AT THE COLISEUM?

Lie #3 (or rather probably you just being the idiot you are and missing this fact) You have been arguing all along that the fight did $91,000 (it didnt, you were wrong and cant admit it so youve been desperately trying to cover that fact up). If the fight did $91,000 then by your calculations above that would be a sellout. Yet we know that the fight didnt sell out. This is a fact you admit. In fact 20% of the stadium was empty. In reality the attendance was 9252 of a possible 11400. So lets follow your little formula: 9252 x $8.50 (the actual median ticket price, not $8) = 78642. The actual attendance gate was just over $77,000. So your math supports my argument. BUT there is a problem with using the median ticket price. The median ticket price is not the same as the average ticket cost. The average ticket cost is based on the number of tickets and their cost PER SECTION. The median is simply the mid point between highest and lowest ticket price. The average, which is a more accurate measuring stick, is dependant on knowing how many tickets exactly were sold from each price section. If you dont know that (and I realize you pretend to know that but you dont) then you cant accurately get a fix on the average ticket price. If there were only 1000 seats of a possible 3000 seats sold at $3 then the average ticket price skyrockets and makes your math impossible. This throws the numbers out of whack because regardless of your posturing you dont know what tickets from what sections were sold in the largest numbers. Had the cheap seats sold out and the expensive seats not then the average is thrown way off again along with your calculations. So you are missing a big piece of the puzzle.

However, you have revealed yourself as full of shit with your little equation. By steadfastly sticking to the idea that the coliseum could not do $110,000 you have once again backed yourself into a corner because now you are arguing that the event did $91,000 AND you are also arguing that the event would be a sellout at $91,000. We know it wasnt a sellout so it couldnt have possibly done $91,000. However, we also know it didnt do $91,000 so you are wrong there as well. Youve essentially tried to sit on both sides of the fence just to prove you arent wrong on either point but its impossible to have it both ways. The arguments are mutually exclusive. Next time think your case through a little bit more clearly. But for the time being show me an actual, verified source that refutes Milt Wilner's own words the day before the fight which state that a full house would do $110,000 and that he actually only did just over $77000. You cant. You can argue until you are blue in the face but those facts havent even been realistically challenged by you in any way shape or form.

As usual this argument boils down: Should we believe the actual figures as they were quoted by every outlet? Or should we believe the word of a proven liar who offers up no corraborating material? Pretty simple answer.

[klompton]

Funny why would Milt have his sights set on a conservative $100,000 gate (after he was forced to scale back his numbers due to the collaps of the Moore co-feature)at a venue that according to you could only gross $91,000. And notice how it specifically makes mention of the fact that Wilner had the COLISEUM scaled for a $110,000 house? Thats right. The coliseum, not the mile high stadium.

You are the one who just said a full house would have been $91,000, you are also the one who originally said that the promotion did $91,000 on a house that wasnt full. Dont blame me for using your words against you when you cant get your lies straight. When you can cough up this source from tax records or whatever, do it and I'll gladly post it. Why dance around that. All you have to do is say a name and I will do the rest. The only reason you wouldnt is because you are full of shit.

So basically, from your story, which is just that, a story, I am right. The bout did only $77,000 and change. The idea that the city council reimbursed Wilner (which still is not supported by any factual material) does not change the fact that the gross was only $77,000+ (although Im not stupid enough to realize you are slowly shifting the goal posts under the weight of factual material in order to make it look like you werent lying and still know what you are talking about. My analogy to the banking crisis stands: Saying Wilner's promotion was a success because he had an imaginary golden parachute is akin to saying the banks were successful in 2008 due to the bailout.

As it stands the facts are whats printed above. The rest is just your word which isnt worth nearly as much as the toilet paper I wipe my ass with.

As for your comment about my book: I have no doubt you havent read my book, nor likely Paxton's. Although given your limited research abilities and distate for anything factual I can see why you would enjoy Paxton's rag better than mine. I'll let people who have actual read my book judge for themselves. If they like it great. If not, oh well. BTW, when is your book coming out? No. Hmmm. I guess there isnt much of a market for fairytales these days...

[ThatOne]

Let's get back to the Liberace lookalike contest that Joe Frazier mentioned your old fella came 3rd in.

Can you post a picture of the medallion?

Well, both Il Duce and Liberace were short balding men. The latter wore a wig.

[ThatOne]

That One 'Girl' getting rammed by His new little buddy Giancarlo........

I thought it was your raison d'etre to be talked about in the same breath as one of the world's most flamboyant celebrities.

[ThatOne]

You must admit Marlo Thomas was quite fetching. I enjoy the company of a pretty woman. Il Duce, I can understand why you wouldn't.