Top 50 Light-Heavyweights

[Ambling Alp]

This is a weight class that doesn't get the recognition that it should. This was a more difficult list to put together than heavyweights because there are so many guys that are so close to each other.
There are a few more guys that wanted to add, but I had to draw the line somewhere.
I included a few guys (such as Tommy Burns, Sam Langford and Joe Choynski), that weren't considered light-heavyweights in their time but were really at this weight for much of their career.
I decided not to include Thomas Hearns or Dick Tiger because they weren't at this weight class for much of their career even though they won the title.
What do you guys think?

1. Michael Spinks
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Gene Tunney
4. Archie Moore
5. Sam Langford
6. Bob Foster
7. Harold Johnson
8. Roy Jones
9. Bob Fitzsimmons
10. Dwight Qawi
11. Tommy Loughran
12. Billy Conn
13. Eddie Mustapha Muhammad
14. Maxie Rosenbloom
15. John Henry Lewis
16. Matthew Saad Muhammad
17. Jimmy Bivins
18. Harry Greb
19. Tommy Burns
20. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
21. Tommy Gibbons
22. Marvin Johnson
23. Victor Galindez
24. Dariusz Michalczewski
25. Virgil Hill
26. Jack Delaney
27. Joe Choynski
28. Jose Torres
29. Lloyd Marshall
30. Kid McCoy
31. Young Stribling
32. Georges Carpentier
33. Battling Levinsky
34. Jack Dillion
35. Paul Berlanbach
36. Jimmy Slattery
37. Mike McTigue
38. Willie Pastrano
39. Antonio Tarver
40. Joey Maxim
41. Melio Bettina
42. Freddie Mills
43. Gus Lesnevich
44. Kid Norfolk
45. Glen Johnson
46. Yaqui Lopez
47. Mike Rossman
48. Len Harvey
49. Jock McAvoy
50. Mate Parlov

[barry]

Light Heavyweight

1. Sam Langford
2. Bob Fitzsimmons
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Gene Tunney
5. Archie Moore
6. Bob Foster
7. Michael Spinks
8. Roy Jones
9. Tommy Loughran
10. Tommy Burns
11. Tommy Gibbons
12. Maxie Rosenbloom
13. Harry Greb
14. Battling Levinsky
15. Billy Conn
16. Jack Dillon
17. Matthew Saad Muhammad
18. John Henry Lewis
19. Michael Moorer
20. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

[silkov]

Interesting lists, personally I wouldn't put Jones in the top ten though, I don't feel that the depth of the competition he faced at 175 or his time at that weight can be compared to many of the other 175 champs.
I'd have Greb higher and Berlanbach and Dillon probably should be at least in the top 20 I think. I'd put Jones at about 21....

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

ampling app,

- i have charles in langford as my top 2

- i think u should put tommy gibbons higher

- IMO conn and loughran should be top 10, conn never at his peak lost at light-H and gave joe louis hell.

- great list and solid effort




heres my top 15

1. ezzard charles
2. sam langford
3. archie moore
4. michael spinx
5. gene tunney
6. bob foster
7. Bob fitzimmons
8. Billy Conn
9. Tommy Loughran
10. Roy Jones jr
11. Harry Greb
12. Tommy Gibbons
13. Harold Johnson
14. Maxie Rosenbloom
15. Dwight Muhammad Qawi

[theone]

1. ezzard charles
2. sam langford
3. archie moore
4. michael spinx
5. gene tunney
6. bob foster
7. Bob fitzimmons
8. Billy Conn
9. Tommy Loughran
10. Roy Jones jr
11. Harry Greb
12. Tommy Gibbons
13. Harold Johnson
14. Maxie Rosenbloom
15. Dwight Muhammad Qawi

Great list Brockton. I probably would have snuck greb in there somewhere, but other than that your list pretty on the money in my opinion.

[Sherlock]

1. ezzard charles
2. sam langford
3. archie moore
4. michael spinx
5. gene tunney
6. bob foster
7. Bob fitzimmons
8. Billy Conn
9. Tommy Loughran
10. Roy Jones jr
11. Harry Greb
12. Tommy Gibbons
13. Harold Johnson
14. Maxie Rosenbloom
15. Dwight Muhammad Qawi

Solid list. I'd have Charles followed by Moore, and switch Spinks and Foster. Other than that I like it.

[hawaiianpunch]

Michael Moorer's not getting much love on these lists? He was an absolute killer at 175! I'd put him close to the top ten. And come on, at his BEST at 175 RJJ is top 3!

[pundit]

I miss Henry Maske. At least in the top 50 list.

[silkov]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned John Conteh. He didn't fully fulfill his potential but in the mid '70s he was one heck of a fighter. Very talented. Surely top 50?

Very good point!... Conteh is definately top 50... probably top 25 imo...

[silkov]

It's hard to rank Coteh when even down near #40, I have guys like Tommy Hearns and Marvin Johnson. He had the talent, but he was a typical WBC titlist of the 1970s; irrelevant.

How can you say he was irrelevant?... he was probably the most talented of the lot in the 70s and though he went off the rails a bit he still chalked up some great performances, was avoided by Galindez and gave Saad one of his hardest fights when he had basically just one hand. Conteh was ruined by the highlife and a bad hand injury but at his best was a match for any of the other top guys of the 7os... I'd pick him over Galindez, and Marvin Johnson at his peak...

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Agree with Silkov. Conteh gave Saad Mohammad (rated at 18 by Decagon by the way) a very good fight when he was already past his best. So to say he is irrelevant is rather unfair and to exclude him from the top 50 seems harsh. In fact I actually think a peak Conteh ('74 to 76ish?) would have beaten Saad. I wonder if those overlooking Conteh have seen many of his fights, particularly those before his hand problems. He was really good and I think he is pretty underrated nowadays.

i dont think conteh was past his prime in firsst saad fight, he looked greaat in the fight as good as ever. and dont forget, saad knocked him out in rematch

[silkov]

Agree with Silkov. Conteh gave Saad Mohammad (rated at 18 by Decagon by the way) a very good fight when he was already past his best. So to say he is irrelevant is rather unfair and to exclude him from the top 50 seems harsh. In fact I actually think a peak Conteh ('74 to 76ish?) would have beaten Saad. I wonder if those overlooking Conteh have seen many of his fights, particularly those before his hand problems. He was really good and I think he is pretty underrated nowadays.

i dont think conteh was past his prime in firsst saad fight, he looked greaat in the fight as good as ever. and dont forget, saad knocked him out in rematch

If you've seen Conteh in his prime then you'd know the difference between that and when he fought Saad first time... he broke his right hand badly first in a fight in '77, then again in a car crash... after that he was basically a one handed boxer who relied on his left hand. Before the hand trouble Conteh had a great right and would throw vicious combinations.
Between the first and second Saad fights Conteh developed a cocaine problem and was basically 'out of it' before the bell rang.... after the fight he infamously ran through the hotel naked and smashed up his room.... he really shouldn't have been in the ring that night...

[silkov]

He didn't really beat anyone

He won the world title and defended it 6 times before losing it.

I don't think Conteh was past his prime

Crikey, he basically had to fight with one hand. If that's not past his best I don't know what is! Late in his Career Conteh had chronic hand problems.

His right hand was very badly broken... basically it never mended properly, even after a graft, so he could never use it properly again... its a measure of his talent that he was still able to compete at the highest level with just one hand... its also amazing that he was able to retain his fitness to such a degree for such a time when he was burning the candle at both ends and in the middle as well.
He even managed to win a series of 'Superstars' along the way I believe... I think he's the only boxer to manage that...

[silkov]

While Saad may have been at the top for longer you can't dispute the fact that Conteh was at one time the best in the world... which he was. Conteh beat Ahamada, Hutchings, Bennett, and Yaqui Lopez.... he was never beaten for the title!... he lost a very disputed discision to Parlov and then gave Saad hell in their first fight. If Conteh wasn't that good then how good was Saad to have had such a tough fight with the one-handed Conteh??. Conteh easily outpointed Lopez who twice gave Saad nightmares. Conteh cut Saads face to shreds with one hand and really should have won the title that night on a stoppage but Saads corner stopped the bleeding with a banned substance.
I'm a huge Saad fan but Conteh was the better all round boxer at his peak and this was recognised at the time... many of the top American fighters didn't want any part of Conteh when he was at his peak.
If Conteh was never world champ then Saad had even less claim to the title!... Conteh won the title by beating the man who had been given a disputed draw against Bob Foster.... as such he could rightfully call himself the best in the world after that fight.

[silkov]

We could debate the value of various titles but my main point is about how good Conteh was at his best. I would encourage people to watch or rewatch some of Conteh's early fights if the opportunity arises. I'm sure you will be impressed and surprised at how good he was before his injury: fast, skillful, aggressive, good combinations.

He was also a handsome devil, a great success with the ladies and a good all round athelete. Lucky swine!

He was a great boxer. He had to be to be able to carry on at the top for a time with one hand while living the high life as well!.
I have a doc of him done a few years back and he is a very intelligent guy and talks about the problems he had and that basically when he got to the top he didn't find the peace of mind that he had thought he would... he certainly deserves credit for turning his life around after going totally off the rails in the early 80s.
His biography 'I Conteh' is a great read.

[silkov]

His biography 'I Conteh' is a great read

True. I've read it too and found it really enjoyable and interesting. I'm glad he has turned his life around. I believe Conteh now makes a good living on the after dinner speaking circuit. Good luck to him.

And I agree - despite the existance of other 'champions' at the time, Conteh was generally regarded as the top man at light-heavy in the mid-'70s.

Yes, I could see him outboxing both Saad and Galindez in his prime... Conteh is probably the best boxer to come out of Britain since WW2.... probably just a tad better pound for pound than Lloyd Honeyghan who'd I'd put just below him. Strangely enough Honeyghan had very simular problems with his hands as Conteh...

[Ambling Alp]

Conteh was one of the last guys that I cut. He is a borderline case. He did beat Lopez in a close decision who I have at #46.
Lopez did beat Rossman who I have at #47, and Lopez also gave Galindez and Saad Muhammad tough fights.
Rossman had a good career, including giving Galindez a beating in their first fight.
Conteh lost to Mate Parlov who I have at #50. Lopez,Rossman, Conteh, Parlov, and about a dozen other guys are very close.

Besides Conteh, the guys that that just missed the list were Battling Siki, Tiger Jack Fox, James Scott and Michael Moorer.

[silkov]

Conteh was one of the last guys that I cut. He is a borderline case. He did beat Lopez in a close decision who I have at #46.
Lopez did beat Rossman who I have at #47, and Lopez also gave Galindez and Saad Muhammad tough fights.
Rossman had a good career, including giving Galindez a beating in their first fight.
Conteh lost to Mate Parlov who I have at #50. Lopez,Rossman, Conteh, Parlov, and about a dozen other guys are very close.

Besides Conteh, the guys that that just missed the list were Battling Siki, Tiger Jack Fox, James Scott and Michael Moorer.

Conteh was miles better than Rossman and should rank higher than Lopez too. I think Siki should be top 50 too, also Dennis Andries ranks in there as well.

[silkov]

Andries? No, thanks.

Andries would have beaten many in the top 50 list. He would have had an easy time with Rossman for instance.

[silkov]

Andries? No, thanks.

How many of these guys have you actually seen box?....

[silkov]

Andries was far from pretty to watch and his skills were fairly limited but he was very game, tough and strong as a bull. He would have overpowered Rossman and quite a few others on the list.

Without a doubt. Andries is one of the most underrated champs ever imo... the guy was as tough as a rock and actually got better with age, won the title 3 times but gets little respect... but he would grind down a lot of the guys in these lists....

[Steve M]

I can see why someone might think Conteh could beat a lot of those guys.He was a great talent.

Andries though?.He was in competitive fights with Jeff Harding, a fighter that had nothing but toughness going for him.Any elite light heavy wuld have destroyed Jeff.Not made a great series with him.

Andries was no better than the much maligned Donnie Lalonde.

[TheRiverCityHippy]

conteh came from kirkby, liverpool and was hard as nails in his younger days until A) the bright lights of london came calling, B) his hand trouble (he broke it twice) and C) all that managing himself carry on.
he won ABA titles at middle and light heavy before turning pro and i think he had something like 16 ko`s in his first 19 fights, he then sparked out schmidtke for the european title and beat chris finnegan for the british and commonwealth titles. he then outpointed ahmuada for the WBC title and made three defences before he bust his hand for the first time. from then on he started to revel in his celebrity and he wasnt the same fighter. a young conteh would have sparked franklin. he was only stopped once and that was when he was finished and then he retired to run a nightclub.
surprise, surprise.
as someone mentioned conteh`s appeared in stage plays etc and is a very intelligent fella.

[Jaclem]

...i think this division has had some of the greatest fighters of all time. remember...many of them fought heavyweights and gave away a lot of pounds so they developed excellent boxing skills and there were some good punchers in there too .

naturally those who read here a lot know that i rate ezzard charles as the all-time greatest.

the lists here are fine...though i think i'd rate billy conn higher than most do.....top five probably.

as for conteh...when i watched his first fight against saad i thought he was giving as brilliant a boxing exhibition as i have seen...side to side....in and out....and landing punches. (I wish i had a tape of this one) saad did his trade mark come from behind and won by the virtue of scoring a knockdown..but i thought conteh won....i give 2 points for widely outboxing a guy and winning a round big even without a knockdown. the announcer....i think it was the late chris schenkel also thought conteh won for the same reason. not a robbery .....just a different way of judging a fight. i don't know enough about conteh to say where he rates.....but if that fight was an indication of how good he was i'd rate him in there somewhere.

[dalek]

It's not that I don't think that Coteh is a bad fighter; it's that I have a set way of ranking fighters. For me, it's all about how much evidence there is that he's a good fighter. Anyone can look great against the Antwun Echols of the world. If you want to prove to me that you're a good fighter, put on a good performance against another good fighter.

even then you dismiss them if you don't like them.