Kid Gavilan is just about my favorite fighter ever (as you can probably tell from my name), and I've been meaning to make a web site about him for quite some time.
It really isn't anything spectacular (I don't know much about making web sites)... but I just wanted something out there that was just about Gavilan. It mostly just gives detailed descriptions of some of his major fights and clears up a few misconceptions about him.
If this interests you at all, you can check it out at [url=http://kid_gavilan.tripod.com/kidgavilan/]http://kid_gavilan.tripod.com/kidgavilan/[/url].
If you have any comments or suggestions (serious ones), feel free to let me know! :)
My Kid Gavilan web site
Hawk, I have been on your website. It is interesting.
Question: How good do you think Johnny Bratton was? How do you think Bratton would stack up against some of the good welterweights of other eras? Do you think that Bratton would have been welterweight champ very long if Kid Gavilan was not around?
Question: How good do you think Johnny Bratton was? How do you think Bratton would stack up against some of the good welterweights of other eras? Do you think that Bratton would have been welterweight champ very long if Kid Gavilan was not around?
Hawk, I have been on your website. It is interesting.
Question: How good do you think Johnny Bratton was? How do you think Bratton would stack up against some of the good welterweights of other eras? Do you think that Bratton would have been welterweight champ very long if Kid Gavilan was not around?
Question: How good do you think Johnny Bratton was? How do you think Bratton would stack up against some of the good welterweights of other eras? Do you think that Bratton would have been welterweight champ very long if Kid Gavilan was not around?
Nice site. I located a fabulous shot of 'The Keed' about to unleash his trademark bolo punch at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoxingCrazy
I think it is in the Classics photot album.
I think it is in the Classics photot album.
I posted this before, but it mysteriously vanished.Scypion wrote:Hawk, I have been on your website. It is interesting.
Question: How good do you think Johnny Bratton was? How do you think Bratton would stack up against some of the good welterweights of other eras? Do you think that Bratton would have been welterweight champ very long if Kid Gavilan was not around?
I think Bratton was very good, maybe not great, but very good. I noticed that his defense wasn't always so good. When he'd come forward, a lot of times he'd leave himself wide open.
I also noticed that, with the exception of the Joe Brown fight, pretty much every time he stepped it up against a Hall of Famer (Gavilan, Ike Williams, Chalky Wright, Sammy Angott, Beau Jack), he lost. (Gavilan was robbed in their 2nd fight BTW, the one that was called a draw. That fight was in Bratton's hometown.) But I think Bratton could beat just about any "good" contender in his division, at least at that time anyway.
From 1951 (when Gavilan won the title) to 1953, Bratton's only losses, besides the ones to Gavilan, were to middleweights Rocky Castellani and Tiger Jones. So I would say yes, he probably would've been champ during that time if it wasn't for Gavilan. Either him or Gil Turner.
Kid Gavilan-Johnny Bratton
I was going to respond to your Bratton post before, but like you said, it disappeared. Anyway, I pretty much agree with what you said about him.
Rocky Marciano had a show on TV that used to show fights from the 1950's, and a couple of Bratton's fights were on his shows. I think one had Bratton's fight with Livio Minelli. Anyway, Bratton looked like a pretty good fighter to me. Marciano alluded to what you said about Bratton's defense on one of the shows. I wish that show was still on ESPN Classic.
I also wish I had a tape of the first Gavilan/Bratton fight. I heard that Gavilan fought a heck of a fight. I never saw that one.
As far as the draw between Gavilan and Bratton, it was a non title fight in Bratton's hometown, so it was one of many hometown decisions that went against Gavilan. After Kid Gavilan lost his title, I think that he got screwed in a lot of his fights, as well as the Saxton fight.
That Gil Turner could be tough.
Rocky Marciano had a show on TV that used to show fights from the 1950's, and a couple of Bratton's fights were on his shows. I think one had Bratton's fight with Livio Minelli. Anyway, Bratton looked like a pretty good fighter to me. Marciano alluded to what you said about Bratton's defense on one of the shows. I wish that show was still on ESPN Classic.
I also wish I had a tape of the first Gavilan/Bratton fight. I heard that Gavilan fought a heck of a fight. I never saw that one.
As far as the draw between Gavilan and Bratton, it was a non title fight in Bratton's hometown, so it was one of many hometown decisions that went against Gavilan. After Kid Gavilan lost his title, I think that he got screwed in a lot of his fights, as well as the Saxton fight.
That Gil Turner could be tough.
Re: Kid Gavilan-Johnny Bratton
That's ironic when you think about it, because so many people associate Gavilan with the two "controversial" decisions he got over Graham and Basilio.Scypion wrote:As far as the draw between Gavilan and Bratton, it was a non title fight in Bratton's hometown, so it was one of many hometown decisions that went against Gavilan. After Kid Gavilan lost his title, I think that he got screwed in a lot of his fights, as well as the Saxton fight.
I don't know much about his later fights, but I know he often fought in his opponents' hometowns then, and dropped decisions to nobodies. Someone once told me that Gavilan felt he was robbed in quite a few of his losses, including his last one to Yama Bahama. But hey, it's freakin' tough always fighting in your opponents' hometown. All they have to do is make the fight a little close, and they get the decision or a draw. Gavilan in his prime used to be able to whip guys so badly there was almost no possibility of being robbed.
I saw the Gavilan-Basilio fight, and Gavilan did get knocked down in one of the early rounds. However, I thought that Gavilan did enough after that to win the decision. I am a Gavilan fan, so maybe I am a little biased.
Gavilan fought a guy named Peter Waterman in London not too long after losing his title to Saxton. Waterman's hometown was London, Eng. I heard that Gavilan really got a bad decision in that one. Gavalin fought Waterman again and won easily.
Gavilan often fought middleweights and even a ranked light heavyweight (Dogomar Martinez) in their hometowns. These fighters wanted a win over Gavilan to add luster to their records. Eduardo Lausse was a ranked middleweight that Gavilan fought a couple of times in Argentina.
Gavilan fought a guy named Peter Waterman in London not too long after losing his title to Saxton. Waterman's hometown was London, Eng. I heard that Gavilan really got a bad decision in that one. Gavalin fought Waterman again and won easily.
Gavilan often fought middleweights and even a ranked light heavyweight (Dogomar Martinez) in their hometowns. These fighters wanted a win over Gavilan to add luster to their records. Eduardo Lausse was a ranked middleweight that Gavilan fought a couple of times in Argentina.
I thought Gavilan-Basilio could've gone either way. Naturally, I scored it for Gavilan, but regardless it was a very close fight. Hardly a blatant robbery, if a bad decision at all. It was in Basilio's hometown, so naturally all the fans expected Carmen to get the decision if it was a close fight.Scypion wrote:I saw the Gavilan-Basilio fight, and Gavilan did get knocked down in one of the early rounds. However, I thought that Gavilan did enough after that to win the decision. I am a Gavilan fan, so maybe I am a little biased.
Gavilan fought a guy named Peter Waterman in London not too long after losing his title to Saxton. Waterman's hometown was London, Eng. I heard that Gavilan really got a bad decision in that one. Gavalin fought Waterman again and won easily.
Gavilan often fought middleweights and even a ranked light heavyweight (Dogomar Martinez) in their hometowns. These fighters wanted a win over Gavilan to add luster to their records. Eduardo Lausse was a ranked middleweight that Gavilan fought a couple of times in Argentina.
I just looked up Dogomar's record and found out that he was the Argentine light-heavy champ and later beat Mauro Mina, who went on to become a top contender at that weight.
Lausse was an excellent fighter. He was tough, strong, and had a tremendous punch. Had a very shifty defense too. His only weakness was that he used to throw his punches kind of wide, and he relied a little too much on his left hook. I have him on tape giving Gene Fullmer a whupping. Not only did Gavilan twice go the distance with this animal, he beat him the first time, and down in Argentina, so he must have beaten him convincingly too.
Kid Gavilan
Dogomar Martinez was ranked 7th in the light heavyweight division by Ring Magazine in 1956, and Eduardo Lausse was ranked 9th in 1954 and 3rd in 1955 in the middleweight division by Ring. Gavilan fought them both late in 1955, and fought Peter Waterman twice in 1956. Gavilan also fought and beat Lausse in 1952.
Gavilan also fought guys like Bobby Dykes, Tony DeMarco, Vince Martinez (twice), Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Gaspar Ortega (twice), and Chico Vegar after he lost his title. Of course, Gavilan also defended his title against Dykes earlier.
I would love to have tapes of the 2 Robinson/Gavilan fights from the late 1940's. Ray Robinson was once asked who his toughest opponent was. Robinson said without hesitation, "Kid Gavilan."
Gavilan also fought guys like Bobby Dykes, Tony DeMarco, Vince Martinez (twice), Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Gaspar Ortega (twice), and Chico Vegar after he lost his title. Of course, Gavilan also defended his title against Dykes earlier.
I would love to have tapes of the 2 Robinson/Gavilan fights from the late 1940's. Ray Robinson was once asked who his toughest opponent was. Robinson said without hesitation, "Kid Gavilan."
Re: Kid Gavilan
Thanks for all the info. I just updated my page and I added some of what you've said on there. BTW, I know someone who also asked Ray who the toughest man he ever fought was, and he said "Gavilan" too.Scypion wrote:Dogomar Martinez was ranked 7th in the light heavyweight division by Ring Magazine in 1956, and Eduardo Lausse was ranked 9th in 1954 and 3rd in 1955 in the middleweight division by Ring. Gavilan fought them both late in 1955, and fought Peter Waterman twice in 1956. Gavilan also fought and beat Lausse in 1952.
Gavilan also fought guys like Bobby Dykes, Tony DeMarco, Vince Martinez (twice), Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Gaspar Ortega (twice), and Chico Vegar after he lost his title. Of course, Gavilan also defended his title against Dykes earlier.
I would love to have tapes of the 2 Robinson/Gavilan fights from the late 1940's. Ray Robinson was once asked who his toughest opponent was. Robinson said without hesitation, "Kid Gavilan."
Not only would I love to have Robinson-Gavilan but also Gavy's fights with Ike Williams. Those must've been wars!
Ike Williams was tough. Kid Gavilan did not find himself many easy opponents. He fought a lot of tough guys.
You know Hawk, there are a couple of good tributes to Kid Gavilan on the cyberboxingzone "old Timers" board. In case you don't know, the website is: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com
There are a couple of good threads about Gavilan on their "bulletin board."
You know Hawk, there are a couple of good tributes to Kid Gavilan on the cyberboxingzone "old Timers" board. In case you don't know, the website is: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com
There are a couple of good threads about Gavilan on their "bulletin board."
Ike Williams was tough. Kid Gavilan did not find himself many easy opponents. He fought a lot of tough guys.
You know Hawk, there are a couple of good tributes to Kid Gavilan on the cyberboxingzone "old Timers" board. In case you don't know, the website is: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com
There are a couple of good threads about Gavilan on their "bulletin board."
You know Hawk, there are a couple of good tributes to Kid Gavilan on the cyberboxingzone "old Timers" board. In case you don't know, the website is: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com
There are a couple of good threads about Gavilan on their "bulletin board."
I was thinking of becoming a member of that forum, but I think you have to pay for it. Anyway, they asked for a lot of personal information when I went to sign up and I felt uncomfortable giving it out.Scypion wrote:Ike Williams was tough. Kid Gavilan did not find himself many easy opponents. He fought a lot of tough guys.
You know Hawk, there are a couple of good tributes to Kid Gavilan on the cyberboxingzone "old Timers" board. In case you don't know, the website is: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com
There are a couple of good threads about Gavilan on their "bulletin board."
But thanks, I will check those out.