Cassius Clay, "I'm Fighting Uncle Tom Patterson'

[yancey]

Mr. G,

I do not consider you a 'Goof-Ball'.

You have a passion for Cassius Clay, and are a defender of Muhammad Ali, but you are far from 'Crazy'.

On the other hand, there are some 'Midget-Minded Freaks' that would get in a car with Giancarlo and
''Toonces the Cat' and drive anywhere to defend Muhammad Ali.

Poor Giancarlo is 100% pure goofball.

[gilgamesh]

[gilgamesh]

Sorry the pic is so big, but I couldn't find any other sizes of it. You all know the old saying "A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words?"

This picture has been worth entire conversations a few times for me.

It's the one image that best captures the intense and bitter rivalry between the two in my view.

[yancey]

Sorry the pic is so big, but I couldn't find any other sizes of it. You all know the old saying "A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words?"

This picture has been worth entire conversations a few times for me.

It's the one image that best captures the intense and bitter rivalry between the two in my view.

The better man is on the right hand side.

[BoxBuzz]

Frazier took the best to task, and relentlessly beat him at his own game on his own terms.

This may not make you the best, but what it does make you, is one of a kind.

IF he would have just left the game, I suspect boxing history would have as much difficulty attempting to figure Frazier out, as they did Marciano. And though Ali might have gone on to have an illustrious career, he would always remain in Frazier's shadow. And much would be different.

Sometimes history is happenstance.

Joe's mistake was his decision to keep climbing a mountain that he had already planted a flag on top of. People don't forgive you for that for some reason.

I'm quite at ease with the way it came out, but I could easily live in that alternate history as well.

Both men were distinct and remarkable.

[gilgamesh]

Frazier took the best to task, and relentlessly beat him at his own game on his own terms.

This may not make you the best, but what it does make you, is one of a kind.

IF he would have just left the game, I suspect boxing history would have as much difficulty attempting to figure Frazier out, as they did Marciano. And though Ali might have gone on to have an illustrious career, he would always remain in Frazier's shadow. And much would be different.

Sometimes history is happenstance.

Joe's mistake was his decision to keep climbing a mountain that he had already planted a flag on top of. People don't forgive you for that for some reason.

I'm quite at ease with the way it came out, but I could easily live in that alternate history as well.

Both men were distinct and remarkable.

Very well said

[yancey]

Frazier took the best to task, and relentlessly beat him at his own game on his own terms.

This may not make you the best, but what it does make you, is one of a kind.

IF he would have just left the game, I suspect boxing history would have as much difficulty attempting to figure Frazier out, as they did Marciano. And though Ali might have gone on to have an illustrious career, he would always remain in Frazier's shadow. And much would be different.

Sometimes history is happenstance.

Joe's mistake was his decision to keep climbing a mountain that he had already planted a flag on top of. People don't forgive you for that for some reason.

I'm quite at ease with the way it came out, but I could easily live in that alternate history as well.

Both men were distinct and remarkable.

Sometime ago I read some very interesting insight from a person who was an insider to the Frazier camp.

He said that Frazier really wanted to hang 'em up after the FOTC, but it was a given that Ali and his lackeys in the media would have never given him any peace in retirement.

A rematch had to happen. The other way around, it would have been Ali's choice. That is the way it worked, sadly.

History can indeed be happenstance.

[BoxBuzz]

Box Buzz,

Again with an over analytical response,,,,,,,,,

Please just say it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Joe Frazier won 'The Fight of the Century'.

Not exactly haiku there Ol Duchess, but ya can't argue with that. Unless you're the straightforward contrary sort.

Now just so's ya know, I did say it, just like you asked, but then I realized you couldn't possibly hear me.. and that's when I sort of figured out that you didn't actually type out what you really meant to convey.....so I went back and used the ol keyboard.

I think I'm startin' to understand your writing style.

[BoxBuzz]

You are going to be surprised.....I watch Fox.

I don't believe MSNBC. I think they tell stories. I'm one state over....very different. Live free or die....no income tax, no sales tax. Keep the govt small, keeps them out of big trouble. Our legislators do not get paid for their work. All Volunteer. I think they are the only political body that is paid fairly for what they do.

Govt closed? I hadn't noticed.

You and your stories.....could make some money in politics.

[yancey]

Mr. G,

I do not consider you a 'Goof-Ball'.

You have a passion for Cassius Clay, and are a defender of Muhammad Ali, but you are far from 'Crazy'.

On the other hand, there are some 'Midget-Minded Freaks' that would get in a car with Giancarlo and
''Toonces the Cat' and drive anywhere to defend Muhammad Ali.

That really is a great post, Duce.

Thanks for the laughs.

[Giancarlo]

Poor Giancarlo is 100% pure goofball.

That's coming from a 70 year old 'man' with an unhealthy interest in Smokin' Joe.

[Giancarlo]

Poor Giancarlo is 100% pure goofball.

That's coming from a 70 year old 'man' with an unhealthy interest in Smokin' Joe.

I bet he could kick your ass with an "I Am The Greatest" Record Album in his right hand.

I believe his right arm is extremely well developed compared to his left.

[ThatOne]

BoxRec should have an alternate history forum for Il Duce.

[ThatOne]

BoxRec should have an alternate history forum for Il Duce.

[/bYes, with me posting wonderful thoughts, and you following right behind.]

Where would this board be without the virtuous posters who work tirelessly and without fanfare to keep the record correct?

[ThatOne]

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."


-John Adams,

[ThatOne]

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."


-John Adams,

Mr. That One, did you come up with 'That One' yourself......

No. President Adams did.

[BoxBuzz]

Is that you credited him for the quote? Good show!

[BoxBuzz]

Do you point this out because you feel that young Cassius should have been more sensitive to those of us who share a Caucasian heritage? As I recall there was quite a social discussion going on back then, and he was part of group that was addressing some historic inequality. As I recall, people were not acting overly diplomatic on both sides of the discussion. Some were downright rude to others, and some were not overly impressed with the delicate and fragile ways of the peace makers of the time.

Trash talk was common, and we as a society were learning not to kill people for brandishing bold opinions in public. Or sitting on the wrong place on the bus.

However in a less civil time there was some consequence for trash talking...sometimes perfectly innocent humans were sacrificed in very inhumane ways for simply attempting to be treated as equals. This is a very powerful subject, and sometimes many of us went over the top with our passion. Were you a a part of this discussion? Please disregard this question it's much too personal.

But I suggest an entrée of forgiveness for such boldly expressed opinions during that time in our history. After all in an earlier time, the expressions were not simply verbal. And boldness often manifested in death making.

My simple point...consider forgiveness as it is often the best answer.

[p4p1]

Do you point this out because you feel that young Cassius should have been more sensitive to those of us who share a Caucasian heritage? As I recall there was quite a social discussion going on back then, and he was part of group that was addressing some historic inequality. As I recall, people were not acting overly diplomatic on both sides of the discussion. Some were downright rude to others, and some were not overly impressed with the delicate and fragile ways of the peace makers of the time.

Trash talk was common, and we as a society were learning not to kill people for brandishing bold opinions in public. Or sitting on the wrong place on the bus.

However in a less civil time there was some consequence for trash talking...sometimes perfectly innocent humans were sacrificed in very inhumane ways for simply attempting to be treated as equals. This is a very powerful subject, and sometimes many of us went over the top with our passion. Were you a a part of this discussion? Please disregard this question it's much too personal.

But I suggest an entrée of forgiveness for such boldly expressed opinions during that time in our history. After all in an earlier time, the expressions were not simply verbal. And boldness often manifested in death making.

My simple point...consider forgiveness as it is often the best answer.

[ThatOne]

Mr. Box Buzz,

Again well stated, but you assume wrong, as I'm not Caucasian.

I do not bring my Race, Creed or Color into the Box/Rec Site, as it should have no bearing
on my thoughts, as I let others just assume the 'worst' unfortunately.

If I say something 'on the edge' about Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, then they 'automatically'
assume that I'm a 'whatever they wish to brandish me'.

I just believe that Cassius Clay went from a 'good kid' to an 'immature smart-aleck', all for some
cheap laughs and to provide the 'non' Clay fans to hate him even more.

He succeded, at the expense of hurting others.

I still can see the look in Sandra Patterson's eyes as she left the Thunderbird Hotel in tears
a few days before the Championship Bout in Las Vegas, between her Husband and Cassius Clay.

Sandra Patterson, "I wonder if any other boxer ever talked to his opponent like this. It's one thing
to say I'm going to beat you up or knock you out. But to call my Husband derogatory names, and
belittle him in front of the Nation. One minute he acts nice, and then the next minute {when the
Camera's or Press come around} he acts like an animal in a Zoo."

We're just going to need a CITATION for that.

[ThatOne]

Your search - Sandra Patterson, "I wonder if any other boxer ever talked to his opponent like this. It's one ... - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
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[BoxBuzz]

Mr. Box Buzz,

Again well stated, but you assume wrong, as I'm not Caucasian.

I do not bring my Race, Creed or Color into the Box/Rec Site, as it should have no bearing
on my thoughts, as I let others just assume the 'worst' unfortunately.

If I say something 'on the edge' about Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, then they 'automatically'
assume that I'm a 'whatever they wish to brandish me'.

I just believe that Cassius Clay went from a 'good kid' to an 'immature smart-aleck', all for some
cheap laughs and to provide the 'non' Clay fans to hate him even more.

He succeded, at the expense of hurting others.

I still can see the look in Sandra Patterson's eyes as she left the Thunderbird Hotel in tears
a few days before the Championship Bout in Las Vegas, between her Husband and Cassius Clay.

Sandra Patterson, "I wonder if any other boxer ever talked to his opponent like this. It's one thing
to say I'm going to beat you up or knock you out. But to call my Husband derogatory names, and
belittle him in front of the Nation. One minute he acts nice, and then the next minute {when the
Camera's or Press come around} he acts like an animal in a Zoo."

You have initiated your response with an error. I made no assumptions. "Those of us"...simply refers to whomever qualify who is reading my words. Not specifically to you or I.

[ThatOne]

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

If you read this post and feel it refers to you please don't blame the messenger .

[gilgamesh]

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."


-John Adams,

Mr. That One, did you come up with 'That One' yourself......

He quoted it from John Adams...he said that himself.

[gilgamesh]

Mr. Box Buzz,

Again well stated, but you assume wrong, as I'm not Caucasian.

I do not bring my Race, Creed or Color into the Box/Rec Site, as it should have no bearing
on my thoughts, as I let others just assume the 'worst' unfortunately.

If I say something 'on the edge' about Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, then they 'automatically'
assume that I'm a 'whatever they wish to brandish me'.

I just believe that Cassius Clay went from a 'good kid' to an 'immature smart-aleck', all for some
cheap laughs and to provide the 'non' Clay fans to hate him even more.

He succeded, at the expense of hurting others.

I still can see the look in Sandra Patterson's eyes as she left the Thunderbird Hotel in tears
a few days before the Championship Bout in Las Vegas, between her Husband and Cassius Clay.

Sandra Patterson, "I wonder if any other boxer ever talked to his opponent like this. It's one thing
to say I'm going to beat you up or knock you out. But to call my Husband derogatory names, and
belittle him in front of the Nation. One minute he acts nice, and then the next minute {when the
Camera's or Press come around} he acts like an animal in a Zoo."

How do you not understand that by now? YES Ali was an obnoxious, sh*t-talking, crazy son of a bitch when the cameras were rolling and he had a fight coming up. He was like that with ALL of his opponents, not just Floyd Patterson.

He also treated almost all of them with respect and didn't say anything bad about them as the years went on.

There are a lot of fighters who talk mad sh*t before a fight, during a fight all that. It IS a fight after all, and you're not exactly entering the ring with the mindset that the dude is your friend.

It's not like he was running down Floyd Patterson after it was all said and done.