The Larry Holmes vs Gerry Cooney Fight

[elmersalsa]

I saw that fight last night, and to tell you the truth, it was a professional fighting an amateur. The great Larry Holmes completely outclassed Gerry Cooney. But I got to give Cooney lots of respect. He did not quit, did the best he could and came to fight. He was also unexperienced against a formidable champion. Larry pick his shots and looked awesome. Your thoughts.

Why this Jesse Jackson was on Holmes' corner? And why the great trainer Ray Arcel there in Holmes' corner also?

[hhaehre]

I saw that fight last night, and to tell you the truth, it was a professional fighting an amateur. The great Larry Holmes completely outclassed Gerry Cooney. But I got to give Cooney lots of respect. He did not quit, did the best he could and came to fight. He was also unexperienced against a formidable champion. Larry pick his shots and looked awesome. Your thoughts.

Why this Jesse Jackson was on Holmes' corner? And why the great trainer Ray Arcel there in Holmes' corner also?

I don't really agree with your pro-amateur view of the fight. Cooney did pretty well, he clearly bothered Holmes to the body and won about 4 rounds. That's not being completely outclassed in my book. Having said that I believe Cooney did as well as he could possibly do against a prime Holmes and it wasn't enough. It would never have been enough, not with a different build up, not with a differently managed career and not with a different trainer. Just like Leon Spinks I believe Cooney was managed perfectly into his big money fight. He was never going to beat Holmes anyway so might as well protect him as much as possible while building him up.

[elmersalsa]

I saw that fight last night, and to tell you the truth, it was a professional fighting an amateur. The great Larry Holmes completely outclassed Gerry Cooney. But I got to give Cooney lots of respect. He did not quit, did the best he could and came to fight. He was also unexperienced against a formidable champion. Larry pick his shots and looked awesome. Your thoughts.

Why this Jesse Jackson was on Holmes' corner? And why the great trainer Ray Arcel there in Holmes' corner also?

I don't really agree with your pro-amateur view of the fight. Cooney did pretty well, he clearly bothered Holmes to the body and won about 4 rounds. That's not being completely outclassed in my book. Having said that I believe Cooney did as well as he could possibly do against a prime Holmes and it wasn't enough. It would never have been enough, not with a different build up, not with a differently managed career and not with a different trainer. Just like Leon Spinks I believe Cooney was managed perfectly into his big money fight. He was never going to beat Holmes anyway so might as well protect him as much as possible while building him up.

You could be right about that. Cooney only had one fight in 29 months? That is not enough in order to fight a title shot against a veteran and future all time great.

Can we compare this fight just like the outing of Saul "Canelo" Alvarez vs the great Floyd Mayweather, Jr? Still, I think Cooney did better. The question is between Cooney and Canelo, who was more overhyped and amateurish?

[HomicideHenry]

If Cooney wasn't deducted points, imho, the fight is a heck of alot closer.

[dempseyfire]

It was fairly competitive. I consider outclassing being Floyd-Alvarez. Cooney forced Holmes to dig deep and he also really hurt Larry to the body in the 4th. But by the 6th Larry was in pretty firm control.

[ThatOne]

If Cooney wasn't deducted points, imho, the fight is a heck of alot closer.

That's when Larry referring to Cooney's Low blows said " I know he wanted by belt just not this one."

[man]

I saw that fight last night, and to tell you the truth, it was a professional fighting an amateur. The great Larry Holmes completely outclassed Gerry Cooney.

one can be a professional and still lose to an ATG5
heavyweight.

[SamWise72]

Boy against man, though. You know what he was saying; Cooney was outclassed and made to look shabby.

[JimStone]

Prime Holmes beats any boxer who has ever lived. Cooney did well.

[Nile4000]

Larry went out and handles is business.Now we saw the reason Gerry avoided Greg and Michael.

[HomicideHenry]

Gerry Cooney was well-prepared for that bout, and it was his best performance in the Ring.

He just was up against a 'Masterful Champion', who was the Greatest of All Time.

That's why I don't hold it against Cooney as harshly as others do. Holmes, imho, could have beaten virtually every champion that ever lived regardless of era, including the 1960's version of Ali.

[ThatOne]

I didn't think he embarrassed himself.

[elmersalsa]

Did Cooney had a long amateur career?

[SenorPipino]

I thought Cooney did very well. Perhaps Holmes gave him too much respect and could have ended the bout earlier if he wasn't so cautious.

Interesting that the much smaller Michael Spinks waged war with Cooney several years later and emphatically took out Cooney. Holmes preferred to slowly break down the Irishman.

Jesse Jackson was there because of the overblown Great White Hope promotional angle to the fight. Jackson had to get involved in a sporting event because he's a race baiter from way back.

[Nile4000]

Did Cooney had a long amateur career?

I think he was 55-2, 2 New York Golden Glove titles, but got out before Tate, Dokes, and Stevenson could get a hold of him for the trials.

[SenorPipino]

This was really the 'Fight of the Century'

It may have been the most anticipated, and best promoted Championship Bout in History.

Not comparing the promotional work, but do you really think it was more anticipated than Ali-Frazier I, the true Fight of the Century? Lets leave out Johnson-Jeffries and Louis-Schmeling 2.

Ali-Frazier: Two undefeated heavyweight champions with a claim to the title. The controversial Ali was an international star beyonf boxing. Frazier had a dynamic style. An explosion was guaranteed.

Holmes-Cooney: A very talented but lackluster champion going against a huge puncher who was nevertheless untested against elite opponents. Cooney had the big names of Lyle, Norton and Young on his resume but all were at or near the end of the line.
There was considerable suspicion that outside of his power, Cooney was a fraud as a fighter. The black-white angle undoubtedly lured the mainstream fan to some degree, but most others were only interested in the combatants, not the colors.

Ali-Frazier was a mystery as to what was going to transpire. However, sharp boxing fans strongly suspected that Holmes would prove too experienced and talented for the lumbering Cooney.

Everyone has their own opinion as to which bout peaked their interest more, but I never felt that the 1982 title fight in any way rivaled the interest that consumed the world for the MSG superfight 11 years earlier.

[ThatOne]

Larry said Ronald Reagan had a special phone to Cooney's dressing room so he could be one of the first to congratulate him. Sounds like bullisht.

[SenorPipino]

Being from New York,

The 'Cooney Hype' was built up beyond belief.

'Black-White', The Great White Hope theme was smartly promoted, that even 'non-sports' minded
women were taking sides.

I'm not basing this on overall talent, but more of a true 'Great White Hope' theme.

Both 'undefeated', Larry Holmes seeking respect, and Gerry Cooney being the first 'White American Heavyweight'
to have a real shot at winning the Heavyweight Championship as a Challenger since Rocky Marciano
{30 years earlier}.

Everywhere you went in New York, it was 'Green' with the Irish Brigade. And out in Long Island, it
was called 'Cooney Country'.

Never seen anything like it {before or since}.

So your view of the 2 matchups is colored by the fabled "East Coast Bias?"

Having lived on the West Coast during both Ali-Frazier and Holmes Cooney, I can say that there wasn't anywhere near the public buzz out here for the 1982 bout as there was for Joe and Ali.
Holmes-Cooney never intrigued me despite the hype. I just didn't see Cooney in Holmes' class. Thought it would be a routine executuition of the Irishman. When Cooney went down in the 2nd round, I figured my suspicions about Cooney's fistic caliber were correct
But I give him credit for coming back and making it a contest. But as I said earlier, I think Holmes was overly cautious and should have taken Cooney out earlier.

My main interest in the bout was over a $50 bet I made with my bank teller. She knew nothing about boxing but had heard of Cooney and was certain he'd win.
Like most women who lose a bet, she never paid off.

[HomicideHenry]

The difference between Ali/Frazier and Louis/Schmeling and Holmes/Cooney is very small indeed. All bouts had the same elements. In Ali/Frazier it was the true 'people's champion' and the 'system's champion', the true 'black man' and the 'white man's version of what a black man should be', etc.

In Louis/Schmeling, it was 'America' versus 'Germany', Equality versus Elitism, Morality versus Evil. Race factored little in the rematch---- even though the Nazis used Schmeling as a tool to sell their agenda of a master race; as the Nazis used the first victory as 'evidence' that black people had no strong constitution and were lazy.

With Holmes/Cooney, it was popularity versus merit, ideals versus reality, which culminated into being short of a race war. Holmes, great champion that he was, just didn't connect with the general public---- blacks only got behind him when the battle lines of black vs. white were drawn, otherwise they didn't believe in him the way they did Ali. He was a master tactician and had all the qualities one could want in a champion---- but he wasn't exciting. He wasn't popular.

Then comes this kid who was handsome, humble, and was knocking people out left and right. He had an excellent promotional team and was made to sound better than he was. People preferred seeing him more so than Holmes. Being white and of Irish descent was just a small factor in the popularity. He was exciting to watch and his matches only lasted one round or two rounds for the most part. People wanted him to be champion. He was popular. He was everything Holmes wasnt.

It's a natural to put the two together. The right man won, and we acknowledged Holmes greatness. But it didnt make him any more popular. In fact, it was the opposite. The man in some circles grew even more disliked. And it wouldnt be until Michael Spinks beat Holmes, did the public get behind a champion--- as after all Spinks was a gold medalist and was a great LHW champ, etc. but even we all knew sooner or later a true heavyweight would put an end to Spinks. Enter Mike Tyson, and everyone finally had the champion we waited almost two decades for.

Cooney/Holmes, for me, tells the story of not just how racist the business is, but the truth of boxing fans. We wanted someone exciting, popular, who was on the Late Show with Johnny Carson and on the cover of RING magazine with the big move stars, etc. and its still the same truth we have today. We either want Wladimir Klitschko to start taking more risks and become more exciting, or we're hoping that someone comes along, shows no fear and drops him like a bad habit.

[elmersalsa]

Hey, nice post, Homicide!!!

[RadioElRadar]

Cooney didn't disgrace himself, he was just outclassed. If I'd been supporting Cooney (I wasn't born at the time but I'd always have supported Holmes) I would've been fearing embarassment after the knockdown in the second but he did well to hang in there.

I had it much wider than the judges.

[ThatOne]

I wasn't a big Holmes fan but I rooted for him to win because of the people who rooted for him to lose.

[elmersalsa]

At first, I wanted Cooney to beat Holmes because Holmes beat the great and beloved hero of mine Muhammad Ali. That is why Holmes was not as popular at the time. And still was not popular after the Cooney fight. When the great Mike Tyson snuffed him up by a brutal KO when Holmes was 38, I saw lots of great smiles in people's faces. It was a very brutal KO.

[elmersalsa]

Excellent Post 'Double H',

Surprisingly, My Grandfather said that more 'young' people were listening to the
Radio when Joe Louis fought Billy Conn, than Joe Louis vs. Max Schmeling.

He worked for an 'air-wave survey monitoring' at the time, and more were in tune
with Joe Louis vs. Billy Conn.

In 'America', post 1957 as the most anticipated and best promoted Championship Bouts.

In Boxing Events' I have it
#1......... Larry Holmes vs. Gerry Cooney
#2......... Joe Frazier vs. Muhammad Ali I
#3......... Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali

I am sorry Il Dulce, but Holmes vs Cooney could've never been more anticipated than the Fight of the Century of Ali vs Frazier I. I was only 2 years old at the time of Ali vs Frazier I, but, seeing the clips and the promotion of that time on tape I could see that there was a very big enthusiasm and following. And still, after all these years, Ali vs Frazier I was the most anticipated of the last 42 years. The second fight that I call recall as big as that in terms of anticipation was not even a heavyweight fight.

[elmersalsa]

What if Cooney would have challenged Mike Weaver, the WBA World Heavyweight Champion instead of Holmes? Would he would have become world champion if that fight would have taken place?