RJJr vs BHOP....at what date in time did the tide turn.

[BoxBuzz]

In their respective careers, what is the date or fight you could assign that would signal the time when Bernard would have become the odds on winner over Roy?

[p4p1]

In their respective careers, what is the date or fight you could assign that would signal the time when Bernard would have become the odds on winner over Roy?

Probably after the Jones vs Johnson fight. Tarver 2 looked like a lucky punch so it still would of been hard to make BHop the favourite after that fight. After the Johnson fight everyone knew it was over for Jones.

[Vladimir5555]

For me after Jones - Tarver 2.

[gilgamesh]

I think the margin that Jones would've been the favorite to beat Hopkins would've dropped after the 1st Tarver bout, but after the 2nd Tarver fight...I think Hopkins would've probably been the slight favorite there with the margin getting wider as time went on.

[p4p1]

At the time though had Hopkins stepped up from MW yet? Also when does Jones losing coincide with Hopkins losing to Taylor.

[gilgamesh]

At the time though had Hopkins stepped up from MW yet? Also when does Jones losing coincide with Hopkins losing to Taylor.

Hopkins lost to Taylor twice in 2005, both were particularly close fights.

Once Jones started losing, he usually lost in one sided fashion. Glen Johnson won most all the rounds against him save 1 or 2 at the most. He got stopped in 2 in the first Tarver rematch and in the Rubber match he never even tried to win at all.

To me that 3rd Tarver fight is still the worst of his career.

By then his confidence had dropped so much he felt he was somehow a winner, by simply not getting knocked out. Or at least that's the way he fought.

[Bobbyptsd]

In their respective careers, what is the date or fight you could assign that would signal the time when Bernard would have become the odds on winner over Roy?

Probably after the Jones vs Johnson fight. Tarver 2 looked like a lucky punch so it still would of been hard to make BHop the favourite after that fight. After the Johnson fight everyone knew it was over for Jones.

That's a good assessment, I believe.

[BoxBuzz]

I'm not sure just what happened to Roy....but I do feel I have it down to one of two events.

1. He may have "lost it" when he played fast and loose with his weight...this may actually be the more popular view point.

2. My favored scenario is that he genuinely experienced a semi profound head injury in the second Tarver fight that pretty much changed his reflex ability. This goes from "semi profound" to "profound" when we factor in his occupation.


What I mean by that is this. From that head injury event forward, he may well have been able to fully maintain his stride in almost any other occupation other than operating at the top of any sport activity. He would have lost it as a basketball player, boxer, a baseball player....maybe not a football player depending on his position. If he was a CEO, or a Bank guy, or a Foreman for a manufacturing plant...people would not have noticed the difference.


Anyone feel one sounds more likely than the other? I'm not as educated in what the weight gain and loss can do to a man's overall abilities. But his judgment and reflexes never seemed as sharp after the Tarver fight. I think it all happened then and there. Besides the shot, did his head land hard on the canvas? I can't remember.

[gilgamesh]

I'm not sure just what happened to Roy....but I do feel I have it down to one of two events.

1. He may have "lost it" when he played fast and loose with his weight...this may actually be the more popular view point.

2. My favored scenario is that he genuinely experienced a semi profound head injury in the second Tarver fight that pretty much changed his reflex ability. This goes from "semi profound" to "profound" when we factor in his occupation.


What I mean by that is this. From that head injury event forward, he may well have been able to fully maintain his stride in almost any other occupation other than operating at the top of any sport activity. He would have lost it as a basketball player, boxer, a baseball player....maybe not a football player depending on his position. If he was a CEO, or a Bank guy, or a Foreman for a manufacturing plant...people would not have noticed the difference.


Anyone feel one sounds more likely than the other? I'm not as educated in what the weight gain and loss can do to a man's overall abilities. But his judgment and reflexes never seemed as sharp after the Tarver fight. I think it all happened then and there. Besides the shot, did his head land hard on the canvas? I can't remember.

In the Tarver fight no, but in the Glen Johnson fight which was right after that he suffered a particularly vicious KO where aside from the punch, the back of his head bounced off the mat and he was lying on the ground for a pretty substantial amount of time before getting up.

[BoxBuzz]

One following the other....I'm going to look at those and see what I see. My guess is that any one of these three events could have seriously affected him. But escaping all three events without a problem is beyond the pale.

this was a perfect storm for an avoidable degrading of reflexes.

Now some are more prone than others to be affected. But you can not attribute this to a career of being hit, because up to then he was quite the master of avoiding the incoming.

[Perseus]

my two cents:
Mentally Roy was a changed man after the second Tarver fight.
If he could dominate an opponent he was fine but after Tarver 2 if he couldn't dominate his opponent he just stopped trying to win starting with Johnson.

Tarver didn't step in the ring to win a decision in their second fight, he had bad intentions on his punches in the first round, looking to win with one punch. I thought he had no chance of beating Jones that way but then the second round happened.
Then the Johnson fight happened and after a few rounds it became obvious that Jones wasn't game for a tough fight.

[Adamj1987]

i think slightly before the concensus here. after the first tarver fight, i think he expected to go in and dominate people at light heavy like he did before ruiz and when he struggled with tarver i think his confidence got nocked resulting in the subsequent loses.

[polecateddy]

Hopkins was unfashionable and seemingly quite underestimated up until beating Felix. Before that he was thought of something of a middle weight version of Steve Robinson. Strong and effective, but a bit mechanical and undynamic with it. He was never box office. I would imagine Hopkins was the better fighter any time after Tarver 2.

[Syntax Error]

i think slightly before the concensus here. after the first tarver fight, i think he expected to go in and dominate people at light heavy like he did before ruiz and when he struggled with tarver i think his confidence got nocked resulting in the subsequent loses.

I think this is spot on.

This is the moment when Jones Jr lost it for me & arguably the moment when I thought that Hopkins was now the better man.

[BoxBuzz]

Interesting....most seem to think it's the psychology rather than the physiology.

[p4p1]

Interesting....most seem to think it's the psychology rather than the physiology.

I remember in the Calzaghe fight Buzz he looked like physically he had it over Calzaghe but he just looked like an old fighter who had forgotten how or when to pull the trigger.

[BoxBuzz]

which is why I'm thinking physiology.

Could be both, but his ego never seemed compromised. I didn't see the signs of his narcissism fading.

lol.