Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia Or Other Fight Related Neurological Damage.
Why are some fighters able to avoid that fate and others aren't. Is it a function of longevity in the ring ? Because some fighters with relatively long careers seem fine and other fighters with relatively short careers don't.
Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
Re: Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
I mean honestly it seems like just a case of genetic Russian Roulette to me. Some guys can take numerous punches to the head and get in a lot of very hard fights, and still wind up ok.
Some guys are defensively very slick and don't get hit half as often...like say Wilfred Benitez...who still end up damaged.
I don't think there's any real way to pinpoint who these things are going t happen to and who they aren't going to happen to. I think it has almost as much to do with your natural toughness as it does with how skilled you are.
I mean obviously being slick and not getting hit much ain't hurting nobody, but some guys were never anything but come forward bulls who took a sh*tload of punishment in their careers and they still turned out ok.
Jake Lamotta and George Chuvalo come to mind.
Some guys are defensively very slick and don't get hit half as often...like say Wilfred Benitez...who still end up damaged.
I don't think there's any real way to pinpoint who these things are going t happen to and who they aren't going to happen to. I think it has almost as much to do with your natural toughness as it does with how skilled you are.
I mean obviously being slick and not getting hit much ain't hurting nobody, but some guys were never anything but come forward bulls who took a sh*tload of punishment in their careers and they still turned out ok.
Jake Lamotta and George Chuvalo come to mind.
Last edited by gilgamesh on 20 Oct 2013, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
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dempseyfire
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Re: Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
Tony DeMarco is another slugger who tooks tons of punishment throughout his career and is still ticking away fine in old age.gilgamesh wrote:I mean honestly it seems like a just a case of genetic Russian Roulette to me. Some guys can taken numerous punches to the head and get in a lot of very hard fights, and still wind up ok.
Some guys are defensively very slick and don't get hit half as often...like say Wilfred Benitez...who still end up damaged.
I don't think there's any real way to pinpoint who these things are going t happen to and who they aren't going to happen to. I think it has almost as much to do with your natural toughness as it does with how skilled you are.
I mean obviously being slick and not getting hit much ain't hurting nobody, but some guys were never anything but come forward bulls who took a sh*tload of punishment in their careers and they still turned out ok.
Jake Lamotta and George Chuvalo come to mind.
I think genetics clearly plays a role (look at the Quarry family), but also (to a lesser extent) lifestyle choices post-boxing career. For even non-boxers, smoking and drinking accelerate dementia's effects. But of course you have clean living guys like Patterson who still succumbed towards the end of their life.
Re: Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
Gilga....good choice of words.
It is indeed BOTH....genetics... AND...a form of Russion Roulette.
Puglistic Dementia is nothing more than 1 or more brain injuries culminating in recognizable symptoms. Sometimes your genetics may be helpful. It is clear that some brains are more fragile, and/or differing bone structure/density can offer differing protection from harm.
Sometimes it's all about lady luck. The best genetics and bone structure in the world may not be helpful against the wrong blow at the wrong time.
Fighters ability to avoid incoming may be the single biggest factor.
It is indeed BOTH....genetics... AND...a form of Russion Roulette.
Puglistic Dementia is nothing more than 1 or more brain injuries culminating in recognizable symptoms. Sometimes your genetics may be helpful. It is clear that some brains are more fragile, and/or differing bone structure/density can offer differing protection from harm.
Sometimes it's all about lady luck. The best genetics and bone structure in the world may not be helpful against the wrong blow at the wrong time.
Fighters ability to avoid incoming may be the single biggest factor.
Re: Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
And still he was allowed to fight 4 fights in 1990Il Duce wrote:What should be taken into account, and what is sometimes missed.
How young a person was when they put on the Gloves and thrown in the Ring
during the developmental stages of the brain and surrounding area.
You look at Wilfred Benitez, and forget that his 'fabulous father' Gregorio had the
kid in the Ring by the time he was 5.
And when he was just an 11 year-old, his father put the 105 lb. Wilfred in with 160 lb.
teenagers.
* By the time he was 25 {1983} they were calling him 'a looney bird'.
* By the time he was 27 {1985} he was 'a walking basket case'.
* By the time he was 29 {1987} he was 'gone'.
Just a horrible situation.
I don't know how noticeably damaged he was by then, but if it was noticeable at all (which if what you're saying is true it had to have been) it's a true disgrace that he was allowed to compete.
Of course after seeing how obvious it was that Meldrick Taylor was brain damaged and still allowed to compete I can't say it shocks me. It's truly disgraceful though nonetheless.
Re: Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
There are degrees of dementia and neurological deficits.
I suspect the number of ex boxers exhibiting some level of neurological deficits is substantial. You don't have to be as observedly ill as Muhammad Ali who has Parkinson's Disease to exhibit neurological deficits. I know a lot of people get Parkinsons without having boxed but his own physicians have said it's reasonable to assume boxing was the cause. The head wasn't intended to be hit.
I'm not singling out boxers...Many football players have been irreversibly harmed by repetitive head trauma as well... I used to work with athletes in the 80s. I had lunch once with Dave Pear, a nose tackle for the Raiders and Bucs. He's now a shell of himself due to skeletal damage and early onset dementia.
I suspect the number of ex boxers exhibiting some level of neurological deficits is substantial. You don't have to be as observedly ill as Muhammad Ali who has Parkinson's Disease to exhibit neurological deficits. I know a lot of people get Parkinsons without having boxed but his own physicians have said it's reasonable to assume boxing was the cause. The head wasn't intended to be hit.
I'm not singling out boxers...Many football players have been irreversibly harmed by repetitive head trauma as well... I used to work with athletes in the 80s. I had lunch once with Dave Pear, a nose tackle for the Raiders and Bucs. He's now a shell of himself due to skeletal damage and early onset dementia.
Re: Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
Imo guys with stronger necks and guys who regularly strengthen necks muscles may be safer.
Re: Fighters And Pugilistic Dementia
In the case of outliers like Lamotta and Chuvalo genetics must be a big factor. But in the case of most guys, looking at their careers is only part of the story because we don't see what goes on in the gym.
Round after round of hard sparring probably does more damage than the fights. Even in the case of slick defensive guys like Benitez you have to do a ton of sparring to get that sharp in the first place.
Round after round of hard sparring probably does more damage than the fights. Even in the case of slick defensive guys like Benitez you have to do a ton of sparring to get that sharp in the first place.