Roy Jones

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Nov 2005, 21:07

fantasy macthups vs heavyweights

how do u think jones would do against

dempsey

frazier

marciano

louis

liston

walcott

tunney

holyfield

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 16 Nov 2005, 21:38

1. vs Dempsey. Jones sticks and moves and avoids Dempsey's power until the Manassa Mauler catches him late. Dempsey KO 13

2. vs Frazier. Smokin Joe suckers him into an earlier than planned shootout and it's a big mistake for Jones. Frazier KO 4

3. vs Marciano. Jones outboxes the Rock for several rounds but Marciano is too relentless. Marciano KO 11

4. vs Louis. Jones outboxes the Brown Bomber until he get's caught with a big right (or left look) Louis KO 7

5. vs Liston. Jones avoids Liston's big punches in the early rounds, then sticks and moves around Sonny for a boring decision win. Jones by a close W15

6. vs Walcott. Jones beats Jersey Joe to the punch all night, but still shows himself to be contact shy. Jones W15

7. vs Tunney. A tactician v tactician bout that goes back and forth with each fighter winning exchanges. Tunney is stronger down the stretch though and get's the victory. Tunney W15

8. vs Holyfield. The Real Deal stalks Jones and catches him at the midway point in the bout. Holyfield KO 6

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 16 Nov 2005, 22:00

well since rjj was prodominatly a light heavyweight, which relates more to the weights of some of these older boxers, i think this is great.

I see RJJ beating..

Liston by Ud
Walcott by 12 rd. KO
Tunney by 10 rd. KO
Holyfield by UD

the other fighters i think are just too good for RJJ, although i think all the fights are entertaining if nothing else. RJJ could put up a fight with ANY of these guys, and sonny liston i was sure about winning this fight, but the way he murdered a smaller speed guy like patterson, i have to beleive it would be somewhat similar.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Nov 2005, 23:02

roy jones does not beat a peak sonny liston. he would not be able to avoid liston or take sonnys punches'

jones does not knockout walcott or tunney, especially tunney. jones didnt have power at heavyweight

i see a peak walcott outpointing jones, dont let walcott fool u, his tricks and slick moves would make roy look foolish at times. roy is NOT trickier than walcott.

i see tunney outpointing jones at heavyweight.

i can see jones outpointing hoylfield

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 16 Nov 2005, 23:03

in case u didnt remember, ruiz had trouble dominating huggy bear john ruiz. even ruiz won about 4 rounds vss jones and stunned jones a couple times. jones preformance aagainst ruiz leads me to beleive he cant handle the heavyweight master boxers tunney and walcott

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 17 Nov 2005, 06:06

I can't see that Jones wins any of these fights. His best chance is against Tunney because Gene was not a top puncher but even so I'd back Tunney.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 17 Nov 2005, 06:44

Beating Liston & Holyfield... oh my God. he beat John frickin Ruiz. I wouldnt bet confidently on his chances against John Tate.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 06:51

:x :x :x :x :x Tell me I'm dreaming!!! Jones beats Ruiz and all of a sudden he can beat Dempsey, Liston etc!!!... you're joking surely! that is simply an outrageous statement. Ruiz is just about the worst heavyweight 'champ' ever who has been beaten by two middleweights!!!.... 20 years ago Ruiz would not have been in the top ten... let alone a champion, Jones win hardly makes him one of the top heavyweights of all time. Fighters like Archie Moore did far more at heavyweight than Jones has done (far more at Light-heavy too!) but was Archie an all time great heavyweight? no!.
Everyone is entitled to their views but really these thread takes the bounds of fantasy matchups to a new level!... :x

barry · Post by **barry** » 17 Nov 2005, 07:57

I'm a huge Jones fan, but about the only one that I could see him possibly beating would be Gene Tunney and maybe Walcott...the others would be just too strong!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 08:08

I can't see him beating either of them. Tunney would be too strong and fast and same with Walcott.... Walcott would knock Jones out.
The fact that Ruiz has lost to two former middleweight champions say it all about him... Jones is a good fighter, but there is no evidence to support him ever being able to beat a top heavyweight... beating Ruiz proved nothing really....... Mickey Walker beat better heavies, Sam Langford, Jack Dillon, Harry Greb, Archie Moore.... etc... and they didn't need any assistance either, which I think is a huge blot on Jones (and Toneys) records.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 17 Nov 2005, 08:14

The only one I see him having a chance against is Liston, who's total lack of foot speed and mediocre hand speed gives RJJ a chance to run and hide for a close decision. Everybody else on the list handles him pretty easily.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 08:33

The Great John L wrote:The only one I see him having a chance against is Liston, who's total lack of foot speed and mediocre hand speed gives RJJ a chance to run and hide for a close decision. Everybody else on the list handles him pretty easily.

How much have you seen of Liston?... with respect, he had very fast hands! look at his fights against Patterson, Williams, Machen etc... the guy had good hand speed. He wasn't even particluarly slow footwise, he was just made to look slow in comparison to Ali in their fights. Liston would ko Jones like he did Patterson.... just totally blow him away. Listons jab was strong enougth to knock out many fighters. Jones has done nothing to indicate that he'd even last the distance with Liston, let alone beat him.
Ruis is no Liston.... Sonny was far faster than Ruiz and he wouldn't be looking to hug Roy.....

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 17 Nov 2005, 08:34

The Great John L wrote:The only one I see him having a chance against is Liston, who's total lack of foot speed and mediocre hand speed gives RJJ a chance to run and hide for a close decision. Everybody else on the list handles him pretty easily.

yeah but any sort of punch from liston - glancing jab or whatever - to jones jaw then it`s a k`o imo.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 17 Nov 2005, 08:51

This is laughable.

A prime Liston would knock Jones' fornicating head clean off. He would kill him.

Marciano, Frazier and dempsey would knock Jones out within 2 rounds.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 17 Nov 2005, 09:06

silkov wrote:
The Great John L wrote:The only one I see him having a chance against is Liston, who's total lack of foot speed and mediocre hand speed gives RJJ a chance to run and hide for a close decision. Everybody else on the list handles him pretty easily.
How much have you seen of Liston?... with respect, he had very fast hands! look at his fights against Patterson, Williams, Machen etc... the guy had good hand speed. He wasn't even particluarly slow footwise, he was just made to look slow in comparison to Ali in their fights. Liston would ko Jones like he did Patterson.... just totally blow him away. Listons jab was strong enougth to knock out many fighters. Jones has done nothing to indicate that he'd even last the distance with Liston, let alone beat him.
Ruis is no Liston.... Sonny was far faster than Ruiz and he wouldn't be looking to hug Roy.....

I've seen many of Listons fights and I stand by my analysis. He was slow footed and had average hand speed, and not just in comparison to Ali. While Patterson was a very fast HW, he was not particularly hard to find, especially early in fights, and RJJ was much better at moving and sniping. Machen and Williams were top fighters in a rather weak era, and while Machen did have better than average HW hand speed, Liston didn't exactly blow him away in that fight.

While I don't consider RJJ great, or even notable as a HW, he was very fast and that would give him a chance. I didn't say he would beat him, I said he had a chance, and I think that's very reasonable.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 09:47

The Great John L wrote:
silkov wrote:
The Great John L wrote:The only one I see him having a chance against is Liston, who's total lack of foot speed and mediocre hand speed gives RJJ a chance to run and hide for a close decision. Everybody else on the list handles him pretty easily.
How much have you seen of Liston?... with respect, he had very fast hands! look at his fights against Patterson, Williams, Machen etc... the guy had good hand speed. He wasn't even particluarly slow footwise, he was just made to look slow in comparison to Ali in their fights. Liston would ko Jones like he did Patterson.... just totally blow him away. Listons jab was strong enougth to knock out many fighters. Jones has done nothing to indicate that he'd even last the distance with Liston, let alone beat him.
Ruis is no Liston.... Sonny was far faster than Ruiz and he wouldn't be looking to hug Roy.....
I've seen many of Listons fights and I stand by my analysis. He was slow footed and had average hand speed, and not just in comparison to Ali. While Patterson was a very fast HW, he was not particularly hard to find, especially early in fights, and RJJ was much better at moving and sniping. Machen and Williams were top fighters in a rather weak era, and while Machen did have better than average HW hand speed, Liston didn't exactly blow him away in that fight.

While I don't consider RJJ great, or even notable as a HW, he was very fast and that would give him a chance. I didn't say he would beat him, I said he had a chance, and I think that's very reasonable.

Well I'm sorry but your analysis of Liston is plain wrong...... Jones would have no chance against any of the even halfway decent world heavyweight champs and to say he'd have a chance against Liston is to be blunt laughable. If Liston era was weak then what the heck is the era now?? non existent I'd say. The likes of Machen, Folley and Williams would handle Ruiz like a baby and outclass Jones.
Speed by itself is nothing... Ali beat Liston not by running but by outboxing him and having the strength to fight with him to... jones would run till he was caught and that would be that.... two rounds at the most.
You need to watch your Liston fights again because he had good handspeed and fluid footwork... he'd probably ko Jones with his jab!...

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 17 Nov 2005, 09:54

silkov wrote:
The Great John L wrote:
silkov wrote: How much have you seen of Liston?... with respect, he had very fast hands! look at his fights against Patterson, Williams, Machen etc... the guy had good hand speed. He wasn't even particluarly slow footwise, he was just made to look slow in comparison to Ali in their fights. Liston would ko Jones like he did Patterson.... just totally blow him away. Listons jab was strong enougth to knock out many fighters. Jones has done nothing to indicate that he'd even last the distance with Liston, let alone beat him.
Ruis is no Liston.... Sonny was far faster than Ruiz and he wouldn't be looking to hug Roy.....
I've seen many of Listons fights and I stand by my analysis. He was slow footed and had average hand speed, and not just in comparison to Ali. While Patterson was a very fast HW, he was not particularly hard to find, especially early in fights, and RJJ was much better at moving and sniping. Machen and Williams were top fighters in a rather weak era, and while Machen did have better than average HW hand speed, Liston didn't exactly blow him away in that fight.

While I don't consider RJJ great, or even notable as a HW, he was very fast and that would give him a chance. I didn't say he would beat him, I said he had a chance, and I think that's very reasonable.

Well I'm sorry but your analysis of Liston is plain wrong...... Jones would have no chance against any of the even halfway decent world heavyweight champs and to say he'd have a chance against Liston is to be blunt laughable. If Liston era was weak then what the heck is the era now?? non existent I'd say. The likes of Machen, Folley and Williams would handle Ruiz like a baby and outclass Jones.
Speed by itself is nothing... Ali beat Liston not by running but by outboxing him and having the strength to fight with him to... jones would run till he was caught and that would be that.... two rounds at the most.
You need to watch your Liston fights again because he had good handspeed and fluid footwork... he'd probably ko Jones with his jab!...

Obviously we have differing opinions of Liston, and I feel you are over rating him. That seems to be quite common on this board.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 17 Nov 2005, 10:06

jones doesn't beat any of them.how the hell is he gonna stop gene tunney?lol.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 10:23

Jones is ridicuously overrated by some, I wouldn't say Liston is overrated at all... quite the opposite. Jones isn't even one of the top 10 lightheavies of all time for me, let alone his ranking as a heavy. I'm not a Jones fan but I say this on evidence of career acheivements, Jones did nothing in his fight with Ruiz that indicates that he would have beaten any of the halfway decent heavyweight champions in history... and really its an insult to the likes of Dempsey, Tunney, Liston etc to even dream about Jones beating any of them. As Ali would have said ' IF YOU DREAM IT YOU'D BETTER WAKE UP AND APOLOGISE!!'

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 17 Nov 2005, 11:27

Roy Jones is probably even a little overrated at LHW, though he's an alltime great below that. Sonny Liston in my opinion is somewhat overrated as well, and that no doubt comes from the Liston mystique. He came from an era when there was only one HW champion and everyone could name him. Add to that the long police record, sullen personality, his two 1 round blowouts of Floyd Patterson and two controversial bouts with Clay, and mysterious death, and you have the making of a (no pun intended) black legend. I've seen several of Liston's fights and in my opinion he was a strong hard punching, jabbing fighter, but didn't have particularly great handspeed or head movement. So, I stand by my opinion that Roy Jones would beat him and Walcott by BORING decisions, and in fact I think Jersey Joe would be the more dangerous of the two in the late rounds. Roy Jones knew how to run if necessary, and if he survived the first 4 or 5 rounds against Liston he'd be almost a lock to go the distance.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 12:28

Seamus wrote:Roy Jones is probably even a little overrated at LHW, though he's an alltime great below that. Sonny Liston in my opinion is somewhat overrated as well, and that no doubt comes from the Liston mystique. He came from an era when there was only one HW champion and everyone could name him. Add to that the long police record, sullen personality, his two 1 round blowouts of Floyd Patterson and two controversial bouts with Clay, and mysterious death, and you have the making of a (no pun intended) black legend. I've seen several of Liston's fights and in my opinion he was a strong hard punching, jabbing fighter, but didn't have particularly great handspeed or head movement. So, I stand by my opinion that Roy Jones would beat him and Walcott by BORING decisions, and in fact I think Jersey Joe would be the more dangerous of the two in the late rounds. Roy Jones knew how to run if necessary, and if he survived the first 4 or 5 rounds against Liston he'd be almost a lock to go the distance.

On what evidence do you think Jones could beat Liston and Walcott?.
Whether Liston had great handspeed or not (I'd say he had very good handspeed, he wasn't slow handed) he had great power in both hands, a great jab, one of the best of any of the heavyweight champs... when has jones shown that he could take the punches or avoid the punches of someone like Liston (or Walcott?). A win over Ruiz just proves nothing... Ruiz is not even a Chuck Wepner, or Leotis Martin... Liston was faster, cleverer, more powerful (and by a long way) than ruiz.
Same with Wallcott... Jersey joe would actually match Jones for speed and beat him on strength and power... again, no contest.
People call Jones an all time great at Middle etc but his opposition is hardly legendary at 160 and 168... and like it or not he avoided a lot of the best fighters at these weights and again at 175 he didn't fight everyone. He beats a terribly mediocre fighter in Ruiz and suddenly he's the best boxer of all time and could have beaten the likes of Walcott, Dempsey, Tunney, Liston!!....no! oh no! no no no!!!.
Sorry I feel very strongly about this.
Remember also if you say Jones can do all this then Toney should be able to as well......... Toney is for me a much more genuine heavyweight and his wins at heavy outnumber Jones.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 18 Nov 2005, 07:42

Roy wouldn't last 5 rounds with Frank Bruno let alone Sonny Liston, Marciano, Dempsey.

Roy got KO'd by Tarver and Jonson. yes he was past it and his reflexes had dulled etc... BUT his chin didn't change. There are a lot of fantasy match ups for Roy that we can discuss but these are a bit of an insult to the opponents. Oh, and Roy wouldn't have got in the ring with any of them.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2005, 09:09

Ezzard wrote:Roy wouldn't last 5 rounds with Frank Bruno let alone Sonny Liston, Marciano, Dempsey.

Roy got KO'd by Tarver and Jonson. yes he was past it and his reflexes had dulled etc... BUT his chin didn't change. There are a lot of fantasy match ups for Roy that we can discuss but these are a bit of an insult to the opponents. Oh, and Roy wouldn't have got in the ring with any of them.

Excellent! another voice of reason amongst the chaos!. 8)

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2005, 09:14

Ezzard wrote:Roy wouldn't last 5 rounds with Frank Bruno let alone Sonny Liston, Marciano, Dempsey.

Roy got KO'd by Tarver and Jonson. yes he was past it and his reflexes had dulled etc... BUT his chin didn't change. There are a lot of fantasy match ups for Roy that we can discuss but these are a bit of an insult to the opponents. Oh, and Roy wouldn't have got in the ring with any of them.

Good point too about Roy not wanting to get in the ring with the likes of Liston, Dempsey etc.... I mean this is a guy who won't give Toney oe Hopkins a rematch and wouldn't fight that German guy at 175 whose name I can't remember...... and I didn't see Roy too eager to hang about at heavy and fight the likes of Holifield, Byrd, Klitchenko etc.... I doubt he'd even train in the same gym as Sonny let alone get in the ring with him!....

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 18 Nov 2005, 09:38

silkov wrote: I doubt he'd even train in the same gym as Sonny let alone get in the ring with him!....