Who won(without bias) the first Ali Vs Frazier I fight?

[aajayunlimited]

Did they just give it to Frazier, because he was the first fighter to both give Ali a beating and a knockdown in a highly profiled battle of champions? When you count up the rounds, how do you have it?

Rounds 1 & 2 for Ali
3 slightly for Ali: I can see how it could be EVEN, because Frazier hurt Ali here(but remember Ali did a lot here plus he staggered Joe at one point).
Round 4 & 5 for Ali.
Round 6 - 8 for Frazier.
Round 9 & 10 for Ali.
11 & 12 for Frazier.
13 & 14 for Ali.
15 for Frazier.

I'm watching the fight right now. Tell me that I'm wrong to score that fight either 8-6-1 or 9-6 for Ali! If there were 2 point rounds, then Frazier would still lose(because he would get 2 extra points for 11 & 15, but Ali would get an extra point for round 9). That doesn't apply, but if it did: the fight would have been closer(1 point win for Ali). I--from scoring the fight--can't see a scenario for Frazier to win this fight as it went down.

[klompton]

Frazier clearly won that fight.

[Giancarlo]

Great fight.

Frazier a clear winner for me.

[jezzamundo]

I think it was closer than the judges had it, but I scored it for Frazier. I don't remember the specific rounds, but I believe I had Ali 5-2 up after seven rounds, I scored round 14 for Ali and I had it dead even going into the final round. So that makes Frazier a 2 point winner on my scorecard.

Everyone scores fights differently, but I think you have to be very generous to Ali to give him the nod in this fight.

I had Ali winning the second fight by a single point (scored 6-5-1 in rounds) and I had Ali up 9-5 in the rubber match before the corner retirement.

[SamWise72]

I would be biased toward Ali, if anything, but I think Frazier legitimately won it. It's been a while since I've seen it, maybe I should watch again and score it.

[RadioElRadar]

9-6 Frazier for me, the clear winner of a great fight.

[aajayunlimited]

Thanks for your replies. I will say this: I think this fight was like the Frazier vs Bonavena fight; where Frazier went down but still won the fight. Ali went down in this one; yet, to me--and I know it is unpopular to think so--I think Ali won the 8 rounds that he needed to to win. Especially, when, most would make 4 out of the first 5 rounds Ali rounds(Frazier came on in the 6th after conceding round 5), then(after losing 6 - 8 to Frazier) won 9(his biggest round) and 10. Out of the last 5 rounds, I thought Frazier won 11, 12, and 15(while Ali dominated the scoring in the 13th and 14th). That has it at 8 - 6 for Ali. My biggest round that I had problems with was rd. 3: Frazier landed few punches in this round(maybe only one) and he hurt Ali badly; however, Ali did a lot plus he staggered Joe at the same time on this round. So, who does it go to? I gave to Ali or you could score it even on the basis that Frazier hurt Ali. Either way, it's either 8 - 6 -1 OR 9 - 6 OR 8 -7(if you gave round 3 to Frazier). To me, all of the rounds except for round 3 were clear cut! Each round counts as only 1. I think the key rounds are rounds 3, 10, 13, and 14. Whoever won those rounds won the fight: if Frazier wins any 2 of those, then he won or it is a draw. If Ali wins any 3 of these, then he wins(that would give him the 8 he needs).

[klompton]

All three judges gave round 3 Frazier

Two gave rounds 10 and 13 to Frazier

Two gave round 14 to Ali

[ThatOne]

I'm not a big fan of boxing revisionism. Joe won. I'm consistent. That being said it was a competitive fight and if Ali won two more rounds on two cards he would have won the fight. That's all...

[RadioElRadar]

I think the key rounds are rounds 3, 10, 13, and 14. Whoever won those rounds won the fight

My card:

3 - Ali
10 - Ali
13 - Frazier
14 - Ali

9-6 Frazier

Il Duce - Was it not Round 11 where Ali was in bad trouble for the last minute or so? I'm happy to be corrected, of course. Anyway, I scored that round 10-8 Frazier, in addition to the 15th.

I had Frazier 144-139 on the 10-Point system.

[BoxBuzz]

Cmon.......the judges are part of the game. People ...please accept outcomes lol.


Frazier won the boxing match.
With that said.


Maybe one (if given a choice) would rather have been Ali post fight. Sounds like Frazier had a harder time dealing with the damage incurred in the fight. Now this does not change the outcome of the "game". But it is interesting nonetheless. Maybe Ali won the "fight"?

Sometimes the winning football team incurs so much damage that they may have lost the "fight" but not the football game.

Also, If this was judged round by round I still think Frazier won the boxing match....even if he possibly did not win the majority of rounds.

Yeah....incongruous sounding I know. But that is my take.

The only "win" Ali might have enjoyed is the comparison of their physical condition post fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Frazier clearly won the fight, not even debatable. It was highly competitive and a great bout with a clear winner. Just like Duran/Leonard one. In defeat Ali & Leonard proved exactly how tough they were, but no legitimate scorecard has either one of them as the winner. And no, a draw isn't plausible either.

[BoxBuzz]

Frazier clearly won the fight, not even debatable. It was highly competitive and a great bout with a clear winner. Just like Duran/Leonard one. In defeat Ali & Leonard proved exactly how tough they were, but no legitimate scorecard has either one of them as the winner. And no, a draw isn't plausible either.

Clearly stated.....I concur

[gilgamesh]

Frazier 8 rounds to 7 for me. Close fight all the way, but he had inflicted more damage throughout the fight and when it came down to that crucial 15th round he landed that great left hook that sealed the deal on his victory.

[ThatOne]

Steven Alderson who was in the 2nd Row.

"I had a clear view into Muhammad Ali's corner from where I was sitting in the 2nd-Row.
Muhammad had tears in his eye's at the end of the 5th-Round, as Joe Frazier had ripped
his ribs apart with a body punch. I was shocked, as I never thought that Muhammad could
be hit, let alone hurt."

You like apples?

Another prevarication from Il Bugiardo.


Thanks for ruining another thread. I would quicker believe you are a heterosexual than a boxer could make Muhammad Ali cry.

How do you like them apples?

[elmersalsa]

The great Smokin' Joe won that fight with NO DOUBTS. The 11th and 15th rounds were key rounds in that fight.

[yancey]

Joe won.

Something like 9-6 is about right.

btw, does anyone think that when Ali went down in the 11th that it could have been called a knockdown?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Steven Alderson who was in the 2nd Row.

"I had a clear view into Muhammad Ali's corner from where I was sitting in the 2nd-Row.
Muhammad had tears in his eye's at the end of the 5th-Round, as Joe Frazier had ripped
his ribs apart with a body punch. I was shocked, as I never thought that Muhammad could
be hit, let alone hurt."

You like apples?

Another prevarication from Il Bugiardo.


Thanks for ruining another thread. I would quicker believe you are a heterosexual than a boxer could make Muhammad Ali cry.

How do you like them apples?

You're losing your mind. How is that guy ruining an Ali/Frazier 1 thread talking about Ali/Frazier 1? Damn man, you're better than this.

[HomicideHenry]

Joe won.

Something like 9-6 is about right.

btw, does anyone think that when Ali went down in the 11th that it could have been called a knockdown?

Yep. Ali got up so quick that no count was made, but the rules clearly state any man who is downed, has to receive at least a standing eight count. Round 11 clearly was a 10-8 for Frazier in my mind.

[dempseyfire]

Did they just give it to Frazier, because he was the first fighter to both give Ali a beating and a knockdown in a highly profiled battle of champions? When you count up the rounds, how do you have it?

Rounds 1 & 2 for Ali
3 slightly for Ali: I can see how it could be EVEN, because Frazier hurt Ali here(but remember Ali did a lot here plus he staggered Joe at one point).
Round 4 & 5 for Ali.
Round 6 - 8 for Frazier.
Round 9 & 10 for Ali.
11 & 12 for Frazier.
13 & 14 for Ali.
15 for Frazier.

I'm watching the fight right now. Tell me that I'm wrong to score that fight either 8-6-1 or 9-6 for Ali! If there were 2 point rounds, then Frazier would still lose(because he would get 2 extra points for 11 & 15, but Ali would get an extra point for round 9). That doesn't apply, but if it did: the fight would have been closer(1 point win for Ali). I--from scoring the fight--can't see a scenario for Frazier to win this fight as it went down.

No way Ali won rounds 4 and 5.
Also recall Frazier winning 13. 3 was the very definition of an even round. Ali had a good first 2 minutes but Frazier won the last minute BIG.

[klompton]

I agree on the KD in the 11th, of course I also feel Ali was legitimately down against Bonavena.

[raylawpc]

Steven Alderson who was in the 2nd Row.

"I had a clear view into Muhammad Ali's corner from where I was sitting in the 2nd-Row.
Muhammad had tears in his eye's at the end of the 5th-Round, as Joe Frazier had ripped
his ribs apart with a body punch. I was shocked, as I never thought that Muhammad could
be hit, let alone hurt."

You like apples?

Another prevarication from Il Bugiardo.


Thanks for ruining another thread. I would quicker believe you are a heterosexual than a boxer could make Muhammad Ali cry.

How do you like them apples?

There's nothing wrong with Il Duce's post. This is a post about Ali-Frazier I.

[Giancarlo]

Steven Alderson who was in the 2nd Row.

"I had a clear view into Muhammad Ali's corner from where I was sitting in the 2nd-Row.
Muhammad had tears in his eye's at the end of the 5th-Round, as Joe Frazier had ripped
his ribs apart with a body punch. I was shocked, as I never thought that Muhammad could
be hit, let alone hurt."

You like apples?

Another prevarication from Il Bugiardo.


Thanks for ruining another thread. I would quicker believe you are a heterosexual than a boxer could make Muhammad Ali cry.

How do you like them apples?

There's nothing wrong with Il Duce's post. This is a post about Ali-Frazier I.

Unless he made up the quote, of course...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You like apples?

Another prevarication from Il Bugiardo.


Thanks for ruining another thread. I would quicker believe you are a heterosexual than a boxer could make Muhammad Ali cry.

How do you like them apples?

There's nothing wrong with Il Duce's post. This is a post about Ali-Frazier I.

Unless he made up the quote, of course...

Regardless, his contribution was still > than the guy crying that he ruined the thread with one post.

[Giancarlo]

Regardless, his contribution was still > than the guy crying that he ruined the thread with one post.

Possibly.

I must admit The Duchess does amuse me with his fantasies.

I think he should have a disclaimer that says "As I cannot tell fact from fiction, none of this may actually have happened."

That one where "Big Jim" or somebody grabbed Ali by the throat and lifted him off the ground for making Floyd Patterson dress up as Uncle Tom Jones was pure gold.*

*I may have got some of that wrong or even made it up but who cares.