Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

[SenorPipino]

Is holding truly illegal or just part of boxing strategy?

Fighters tie each other up constantly. It may be frowned on, but few get penalized unless they're doing nothing but holding. And Ali did plenty of punching in whipping Frazier in Superfight 2.

[gilgamesh]

Even if that were the case, there's absolutely no way in hell this record hasn't been broken by now by either John Ruiz or Clinchko in his last bout

Probably sooner than that.

[ThatOne]

Is holding truly illegal or just part of boxing strategy?

Fighters tie each other up constantly. It may be frowned on, but few get penalized unless they're doing nothing but holding. And Ali did plenty of punching in whipping Frazier in Superfight 2.

Why didn't the Washerwoman and his fans cry like little girls when the GOAT held him?

Shorter boxers are taught to slip the hold by taller opponents and crack their opponents on the side.

[ThatOne]

A Filthy Foul

Filthy Foul; when one fighter intentionally and continually uses illegal tactics to harm his opponent.

A} Continuous pushing down on your opponent's head, to cause a collapse of the wind-pipe passage.

B} Forcing your arm-weight on top of your opponent's head, to do damage to the back neck muscles.

C} Intentionally putting pressure on the top of your opponent's head, to do damage to the spine.

D} Digging your elbow's into your opponents shoulder muscles, to do harm and intentionally cause injury.

E} Cuffing the side of your opponent's head with the ribbed sections {wrist portion of the glove} attempting to gouge the ears and face.

I know he wrecked your favorite fighters when he was in his prime or remotely close to it but there's really no reason to wildly exaggerate to libel the guy.

[ThatOne]

Muhammad Ali

Used 'illegal fouls' to save himself from an 'inside beating'.

Referee - Tony Perez admitted, that it was his worst 'bout' he ever Referee'd in his entire career.

Actually Tony Perez said what I said... It's in Muhammad Ali:His Life And Times. He said Frazier being the smaller man could have easily slipped the hold. He said it seemed as if Frazier was enjoying the rest...

I have the book in storage with a lot of my other stuff because I moved. If there's a wager and money involved I'll produce the documentation.

[BoxBuzz]

Apparently nothing can cause a Ducer to whine more than etched in stone historic wins of a former great HW.

[ThatOne]

Apparently nothing can cause a Ducer to whine more than etched in stone historic wins of a former great HW.

Perhaps it's the affect of aging or a bad drug interaction that leads him to such nonsensical musings...

If he would elaborate perhsps we can hold an intervention and help him.

[elmersalsa]

I don't agree with sometimes what IL Dulce says, but in this case, I think he is right. The great Muhammad Ali hold the great Joe Frazier's head too many times and referee Tony Perez did not give Ali a warning nor even did he ever DEDUCT a point. Holding behind the head in boxing is ILEGAL and Perez did not follow the regulations.
When the great Thomas Hearns hold the great Wilfred Benitez' head, he got PENALIZED. And Richard Steele told Hearns loud and clear NO HOLDING in his fight with the great Marvelous

[ThatOne]

Muhammad Ali wasn't the first or last boxer to hold and to single if him out for excoriation when his predecessors and successors have done the same exact thing seems arbitrary and capricious. Some people don't like what occurred on January 28th , 1974 and October 1st, 1975 but as the brothers say "it is what it is."

[BoxBuzz]

An opinion that can be respected elmer.

However, Perez did offer up some balance with the "intervention" when Ali started hitting a little too much.

[ThatOne]

An opinion that can be respected elmera....

However, Perez did offer up some balance with the "intervention" when Ali started hitting a little too much.

Yeah, I believe the rest comes in between rounds and not during them.

[ThatOne]

Pick a Round

Round 3

Muhammad Ali 'initiated' a total of......12-Holds....... for a timed amount of 59-Seconds.

'4' of these holds included 'illegal fouling' of pushing down on Joe Frazier's head, and pulling
it down with his gloves.

The 'inept' Referee - Tony Perez did not offer up even a single verbal warning.

You could here Joe's corner screaming at the Referee......."C'mon Tony, do something."

Muhammad Ali was 'very dirty' in Round 3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A good Referee would have given Muhammad at least '3' verbal warnings, and definitely
'2' stern warnings for the 'filthy fouling'.

A good Referee would have called 'break' on at least two occasions, and informed Muhammad Ali
that 'one' more infraction, and that he would take the Round away from him of deduct a point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... kdsRo#t=64

[BoxBuzz]

Pick a Round

Round 3

Muhammad Ali 'initiated' a total of......12-Holds....... for a timed amount of 59-Seconds.

'4' of these holds included 'illegal fouling' of pushing down on Joe Frazier's head, and pulling
it down with his gloves.

The 'inept' Referee - Tony Perez did not offer up even a single verbal warning.

You could here Joe's corner screaming at the Referee......."C'mon Tony, do something."

Muhammad Ali was 'very dirty' in Round 3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A good Referee would have given Muhammad at least '3' verbal warnings, and definitely
'2' stern warnings for the 'filthy fouling'.

A good Referee would have called 'break' on at least two occasions, and informed Muhammad Ali
that 'one' more infraction, and that he would take the Round away from him of deduct a point.

At least Perez was good enough to stop That bully Ali from "too much hitting" in round two.

[ThatOne]

Pick a Round

Round 3

Muhammad Ali 'initiated' a total of......12-Holds....... for a timed amount of 59-Seconds.

'4' of these holds included 'illegal fouling' of pushing down on Joe Frazier's head, and pulling
it down with his gloves.

The 'inept' Referee - Tony Perez did not offer up even a single verbal warning.

You could here Joe's corner screaming at the Referee......."C'mon Tony, do something."

Muhammad Ali was 'very dirty' in Round 3.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A good Referee would have given Muhammad at least '3' verbal warnings, and definitely
'2' stern warnings for the 'filthy fouling'.

A good Referee would have called 'break' on at least two occasions, and informed Muhammad Ali
that 'one' more infraction, and that he would take the Round away from him of deduct a point.

At least Perez was good enough to stop That bully Ali from "too much hitting" in round two.

I can't believe a compassionate fella like you would begrudge a person some shelter from a storm.

[hhaehre]

Even the most rabid Ali fan-boy has to admit Ali did a lot of illegal holding in this fight. I personally don't think Ali would have won without it but since Perez let it pass I don't really blame Ali. He was trying to win and as long as he was getting away with it, why change this winning strategy?

[Ezzard]

Even the most rabid Ali fan-boy has to admit Ali did a lot of illegal holding in this fight. I personally don't think Ali would have won without it but since Perez let it pass I don't really blame Ali. He was trying to win and as long as he was getting away with it, why change this winning strategy?

I agree

[SteveO]

I know he wrecked your favorite fighters when he was in his prime or remotely close to it but there's really no reason to wildly exaggerate to libel the guy.

I was wondering whether some of Il Duce's posts are actually libelous.

[ThatOne]

Even the most rabid Ali fan-boy has to admit Ali did a lot of illegal holding in this fight. I personally don't think Ali would have won without it but since Perez let it pass I don't really blame Ali. He was trying to win and as long as he was getting away with it, why change this winning strategy?

The results of the trilogy must make you very upset. It's sad four decades hasn't erased the anger

I'll pray for you.

I am proud to be a fan of a fighter for whose losses need no explanation.

[BoxBuzz]

Even the most rabid Ali fan-boy has to admit Ali did a lot of illegal holding in this fight. I personally don't think Ali would have won without it but since Perez let it pass I don't really blame Ali. He was trying to win and as long as he was getting away with it, why change this winning strategy?

I agree....that's what a ref is for. So it's not on Joe that Ali was asked to chill in the middle of a rally. As well as it's not on Ali that he was not deterred from clinching....though I'm not sure clinching is all that new and radical. Being interrupted in the middle of some very good boxing would seem to be the bigger issue here. But it goes fully unnoticed by the big DooChee. You'd think he'd give it at least some lip service...but it's as if it never took place in his one track mind.

Since good boxing was getting the nix by the ref....Perhaps Ali simply changed tactics lol.

[ThatOne]

Even the most rabid Ali fan-boy has to admit Ali did a lot of illegal holding in this fight. I personally don't think Ali would have won without it but since Perez let it pass I don't really blame Ali. He was trying to win and as long as he was getting away with it, why change this winning strategy?

I agree....that's what a ref is for. So it's not on Joe that Ali was asked to chill in the middle of a rally. As well as it's not on Ali that he was not deterred from clinching....though I'm not sure clinching is all that new and radical. Being interrupted in the middle of some very good boxing would seem to be the bigger issue here. But it goes fully unnoticed by the big DooChee. You'd think he'd give it at least some lip service...but it's as if it never took place in his one track mind.

Since good boxing was getting the nix by the ref....Perhaps Ali simply changed tactics lol.

Ali fans don't whine about the respite because their man won the trilogy.

Everything else is commentary.


It reminds me of Hagler fans whining about Ray Leonard's "excessive running" in their match. Ring generalship is one of the criteria on which a boxing match is scored. It was incumbent on Hagler, the pursuer, to catch him. Oh, and when they fought in the middle of the ring Ray constantly beat him to the punch.

[hhaehre]

Even the most rabid Ali fan-boy has to admit Ali did a lot of illegal holding in this fight. I personally don't think Ali would have won without it but since Perez let it pass I don't really blame Ali. He was trying to win and as long as he was getting away with it, why change this winning strategy?

The results of the trilogy must make you very upset. It's sad four decades hasn't erased the anger

I'll pray for you.

I am proud to be a fan of a fighter for whose losses need no explanation.

Not the least upset. After all Joe won the biggest fight of Ali's career so no need to waste time praying to your imaginary friend in the sky on my behalf.

[ThatOne]

Even the most rabid Ali fan-boy has to admit Ali did a lot of illegal holding in this fight. I personally don't think Ali would have won without it but since Perez let it pass I don't really blame Ali. He was trying to win and as long as he was getting away with it, why change this winning strategy?

The results of the trilogy must make you very upset. It's sad four decades hasn't erased the anger

I'll pray for you.

I am proud to be a fan of a fighter for whose losses need no explanation.

Not the least upset. After all Joe won the biggest fight of Ali's career so no need to waste time praying to your imaginary friend in the sky on my behalf.

The biggest fights of his career were when he won his championship as a 7-1 underdog and then won it back as a 3-1 underdog.

"There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

History is often an unforgiving teacher.

As to my "imaginary friend in the sky" he listens to the prayer of the petitioner and not to the person on whose behalf the petition is made.

[hhaehre]

The results of the trilogy must make you very upset. It's sad four decades hasn't erased the anger

I'll pray for you.

I am proud to be a fan of a fighter for whose losses need no explanation.

Not the least upset. After all Joe won the biggest fight of Ali's career so no need to waste time praying to your imaginary friend in the sky on my behalf.

The biggest fights of his career were when he won his championship as a 7-1 underdog and then won it back as a 3-1 underdog.

History is often an unforgiving teacher.

As to my "imaginary friend in the sky" he listens to the prayer of the petitioner and not to the person on whose behalf the petition is made.

No, I'm pretty sure that fight between those two prime undefeated all time greats for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world was the biggest fight of their careers.
Anyway serf on, maybe bronze age Santa will change history and make Ali the winner of FOTC.

[ThatOne]

No, I'm pretty sure that fight between those two prime undefeated all time greats for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world was the biggest fight of their careers.
Anyway serf on, maybe bronze age Santa will change history and make Ali the winner of FOTC.

-hhaere

Your logic is flawed. He never becomes champion if he doesn't upset Sonny Liston as a 7-1 underdog. However as a gentleman I will meet you in the middle. It was the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career.


Ali needs no more gifts from God beyond those he has already bestowed on him. ""There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

[ThatOne]

I know he wrecked your favorite fighters when he was in his prime or remotely close to it but there's really no reason to wildly exaggerate to libel the guy.

I was wondering whether some of Il Duce's posts are actually libelous.

Satire is protected speech.See Hustler Magazine, Inc. v. Falwell, 485 U.S. 46 .