Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

gilgamesh
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by gilgamesh »

ThatOne wrote:

The biggest fights of his career were when he won his championship as a 7-1 underdog and then won it back as a 3-1 underdog.

"There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

History is often an unforgiving teacher.

As to my "imaginary friend in the sky" he listens to the prayer of the petitioner and not to the person on whose behalf the petition is made.
When I was back there in seminary school
There was a person there
Who put forth the proposition
That you can petition the Lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
Petition the lord with prayer
YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER!!!
Giancarlo
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by Giancarlo »

Il Duce wrote:After Round 10

One of Smokin Joe's cornermen called Referee - Tony Perez to come over to the corner.

Tony walked over and asked, "What is it."

He was greeted with this.......

"Tony, why don't you go F*** yourself."

Tony walked away with his 'tail' between his legs.

Of course, in reality, none of this actually happened.

And that's a fact, Jack!

:TU:
BoxBuzz
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by BoxBuzz »

Here is one way to look at it.

When Joe was champion.....he did not relent, he did not allow Ali to take what was his.

That was never to be. Joe would not allow Ali to take his hard earned championship away.

When they met on even terms...neither a champion....Ali persevered. Though many here did not like the way it was accomplished, due to the fact that the referee stopped Ali when he was getting down to business, but did not stop him when he was up to funny business.

However Ali did persevere in this case.

Ali then Ali stepped up and took the championship away from the man who took it from Joe. He did so convincingly.

And then....Ali gave Joe the same chance Joe gave Ali.

And when Ali was champion...he did not relent he did not allow Joe to take what was his

That was never to be. Ali would not allow Joe to take his hard earned championship away.

In their initial encounter, Joe emphasized his will with a knockdown

In their final encounter Ali emphasized his will by imposing on his opponent in such a way that he

ultimately could not answer the final bell.

They did forgive one another, and one great warrior is now gone. The other will likely follow him

sometime in the near future.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by yancey »

ThatOne wrote:
No, I'm pretty sure that fight between those two prime undefeated all time greats for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world was the biggest fight of their careers.
Anyway serf on, maybe bronze age Santa will change history and make Ali the winner of FOTC.

-hhaere
Your logic is flawed. He never becomes champion if he doesn't upset Sonny Liston as a 7-1 underdog. However as a gentleman I will meet you in the middle. It was the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career.


Ali needs no more gifts from God beyond those he has already bestowed on him. ""There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

Of course the FOTC was Ali's biggest fight, but good luck expecting some people to admit it.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

I don't understand why this is so controversial. Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali were great fighters. They fought three times and Muhammad Ali won twice.
Ezzard
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by Ezzard »

Who was the joker who claimed a ref once poked one of Ali’s opponents in the eye during a fight?

I always loved that one.
ThatOne
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Ezzard wrote:Who was the joker who claimed a ref once poked one of Ali’s opponents in the eye during a fight?

I always loved that one.

It actually did happen...Arthur Mercante inadvertently poked Frazier in the eye during the first Ali-Frazier fight. In our version of football there was a ref who inadvertently threw a flag that was weighted with bbs into a player's eye and temporarily blinded him.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by Ezzard »

ThatOne wrote:
Ezzard wrote:Who was the joker who claimed a ref once poked one of Ali’s opponents in the eye during a fight?

I always loved that one.

It actually did happen...Arthur Mercante inadvertently poked Frazier in the eye during the first Ali-Frazier fight. In our version of football there was a ref who inadvertently threw a flag that was weighted with bbs into a player's eye and temporarily blinded him.
Well you say inadvertently...
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Ezzard wrote:
ThatOne wrote:
Ezzard wrote:Who was the joker who claimed a ref once poked one of Ali’s opponents in the eye during a fight?

I always loved that one.

It actually did happen...Arthur Mercante inadvertently poked Frazier in the eye during the first Ali-Frazier fight. In our version of football there was a ref who inadvertently threw a flag that was weighted with bbs into a player's eye and temporarily blinded him.
Well you say inadvertently...
I don't think referees are trying to blind boxers and football players. I think the poking of the eye happened when Mercante was breaking a clinch.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Il Duce wrote:Ezzard,

I lost respect for you.......Joker

You didn't know that Referee - Arthure Mercante accidentally poked Joe Frazier in
his left-eye during the Fight of the Century.

That was the reason 'Smokin Joe' couldn't see for the second-half of the bout. There
was concern that Joe had a detached retina, or badly scraped cornea due that
forceful 'finger in the eye'.

Joe Frazier said it happened in Round 6, during a 'clinch', initiated by Muhammad Ali,,,,,,,,'as usual'.

Image

I believe Ezzard was referring to the fact that the person in question strongly suggested the poke was intentional.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by Ezzard »

Apologies Il Duc-inator

I remember now…and I seem to recall…Mercante hadn’t cut that finger nail in weeks…

…but he had filed it to a sharp point…
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

yancey wrote:
ThatOne wrote:
No, I'm pretty sure that fight between those two prime undefeated all time greats for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world was the biggest fight of their careers.
Anyway serf on, maybe bronze age Santa will change history and make Ali the winner of FOTC.

-hhaere
Your logic is flawed. He never becomes champion if he doesn't upset Sonny Liston as a 7-1 underdog. However as a gentleman I will meet you in the middle. It was the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career.


Ali needs no more gifts from God beyond those he has already bestowed on him. ""There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

Of course the FOTC was Ali's biggest fight, but good luck expecting some people to admit it.
If he lost the biggest fight of his career why does every boxing historian of the last thirty five years have him rated #1 or #2?

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/heavylists.htm

Maybe it's because he beat three other top ten all time heavyweight greats, seven IBHOF inductees, four Olympic Gold Medalists, won the championship as a 7-1 underdog and won it again as a 3-1 underdog.

When you're talking Muhammad Ali nee Cassius Clay you're talking boxing.

I am sure there are still folks in the Deutschland who think Louis' first fight with Max Smellling as the lovely Marva Louis called him was the Bronx Bomber's biggest fight.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Il Duce wrote:
Ezzard wrote:Apologies Il Duc-inator

I remember now…and I seem to recall…Mercante hadn’t cut that finger nail in weeks…

…but he had filed it to a sharp point…
Correcto Mundo

Arthur Mercante was 'pulling' for Muhammad Ali.

See his Scorecard {8-6-1} compared to Bill Recht Jr. {11-4-0}.

It was obvious, that Arthur Mercante was intentionally trying to harm Smokin Joe.

The old 'Poke-in-the-Eye' gimmick..............see; Chris Dundee {Florida Wrestling}
In your puerile attempt to libel the GOAT you are libeling a lot of innocent bystanders like the revered and beloved Arthur Mercante. If Mercante intentionally tried to blind a boxer why didn't the boxing commission suspend him and instead let him referee hundreds of bouts over the next thirty years?
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Il Duce wrote:Pick A Round

Round 12

More 'filth'

* {0:16} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '6-Seconds'.

* {0:27} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '5-Seconds'.

* {0:37} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '6-Seconds'.

* {0:50} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '6-Seconds'.

* {1:03} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '5-Seconds'.

* {1:16} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '4-Seconds'.

* {1:29} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '6-Seconds'.

* {1:42} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '8-Seconds'.

* {1:56} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '2-Seconds'.

* {2:09} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '2-Seconds'.

* {2:16} > Muhammad Ali shoves a forearm into Joe's face.

* {2:28} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '5-Seconds'.

* {2:40} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '6-Seconds'.

* {2:53} > Muhammad Ali grabs Joe behind the head, and pulls down hard for '7-Seconds'.

* {3:00} > Even after the Bell, Muhammad Ali holds the back of Joe's head for another '2-Seconds'.
I'll bet you wouldn't be nearly as apoplectic if Joe won the trilogy.
Adamj1987
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by Adamj1987 »

Do you do anything in your spare time other than watch ali fights to slag him off?
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Adamj1987 wrote:Do you do anything in your spare time other than watch ali fights to slag him off?

It's his raison d'etre.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Il Duce wrote:'What they said about the Referee'

* The man looked fearful, as he was afraid to take control.

* He let Muhammad Ali become the 'third man in the ring'.

* He let Muhammad Ali play him like a 'fiddle'.

* Not one 'harsh warning', out of 213 holds.

* He was more worried about the way he looked, than refereeing a proper bout.

* Joe Frazier was held more than a 18 year-old High School Student at his Senior Prom.

* Not sure what Tony was doing in there, other than going along for a 12-Round/36-Minute ride at the Carnival.

* There is a little more to being a Referee, than saying 'Break'.
You have an affliction for fiction that betrays your lack of erudition.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Il Duce wrote:Who can these' 'words' be attributed to.

* Foul-filled
* Dirty Manner
* Disgusting Tactics
* Foulness
* Offensive
* Stain ridden
* Vileness
* Putrescence
* Filthy manner
* Unclean
* Unsportsmanlike
* Unwashed effort
You

lol
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by ThatOne »

Il Duce wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Who can these' 'words' be attributed to on January 28, 1974

* Foul-filled
* Dirty Manner
* Disgusting Tactics
* Foulness
* Offensive
* Stain ridden
* Vileness
* Putrescence
* Filthy manner
* Unclean
* Unsportsmanlike
* Unwashed effort
* Grab-fest
* Unpolished amateurism
* Lack of class
* Clutch-and-Hold
* Disgusting garbage
* Moral Impurity
That is only 'half' the list............
Don't be so hard on yourself, bro...You must have some redeeming attributes.

I'll throw you a lifeline:


Image




lol
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by SteveO »

Il Duce wrote:Arthur Mercante was 'pulling' for Muhammad Ali.
See his Scorecard {8-6-1} compared to Bill Recht Jr. {11-4-0}.
The other ringside judge, Artie Aidala, scored 9-6 to Frazier which is similar to Arthur Mercante's 8-6-1 scorecard. I don't know what fight Bill Recht was watching!
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by hhaehre »

ThatOne wrote: If he lost the biggest fight of his career why does every boxing historian of the last thirty five years have him rated #1 or #2?

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/heavylists.htm

Maybe it's because he beat three other top ten all time heavyweight greats, seven IBHOF inductees, four Olympic Gold Medalists, won the championship as a 7-1 underdog and won it again as a 3-1 underdog.
You just answered your own question but of course it does not change the fact that he lost the biggest fight of his career. As it turns out one can be rated as one of the best of all time and still loose the big one.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by BoxBuzz »

Did Joe think he won all three fights?

How bitter was he at the judges in fight two?


Not sure we've heard that from Il Duce to this point.

Just curious.
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by yancey »

BoxBuzz wrote:Did Joe think he won all three fights?

How bitter was he at the judges in fight two?


Not sure we've heard that from Il Duce to this point.

Just curious.

Buzz,

What outcome did the boxing establishment want in the second Ali-Frazier fight?


I'll give you a hint..........


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by yancey »

hhaehre wrote:
ThatOne wrote: If he lost the biggest fight of his career why does every boxing historian of the last thirty five years have him rated #1 or #2?

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/heavylists.htm

Maybe it's because he beat three other top ten all time heavyweight greats, seven IBHOF inductees, four Olympic Gold Medalists, won the championship as a 7-1 underdog and won it again as a 3-1 underdog.
You just answered your own question but of course it does not change the fact that he lost the biggest fight of his career. As it turns out one can be rated as one of the best of all time and still loose the big one.
He knows it was Ali's biggest fight.

Just won't admit it. :D
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Re: Muhammad Ali 'Set the Record in Holding against Joe Frazier'

Post by BoxBuzz »

Il Duce wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Did Joe think he won all three fights?

How bitter was he at the judges in fight two?


Not sure we've heard that from Il Duce to this point.

Just curious.
Joe Frazier vs. Muhammad Ali II

Based upon the 'incessant' fouling and continuous holding in a nearly uncountable number
of 'cuffing fouls'.

I had Joe Frazier ahead on Points {10-Point Must System}.......114-109

Muhammad Ali loses '6-Points' for Fouls in Rounds; {3, 5, 7, 10, 11 and 12}.

I don't tolerate that 'unclean, unwashed and filthy' stuff.

So.....are you a "dunker" or a "sprinkler"?
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