RJJ vs. Patterson

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 17 Nov 2005, 10:13

At lightheavy or heavyweight which ever they were comfortable, who would win?

Both lightning fast but, Patterson had much more power, who wins?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 10:26

Patterson in about 5 rounds. Too much power and handspeed. Patterson was a far better light-heavy than Jones was and at Heavyweght Jones was really just a myth..... a win over Ruiz really means nothing....

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 17 Nov 2005, 11:46

At HW, Patterson is about as fast but with more power, so I pick Floyd by a KO in 5 also. At LHW though, Jones was much better do it being the early part of Patterson's career, so there I'll take RJJ by a clear cut decision.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 12:02

Yes but the Patterson that won the title could still have made 175 if he had wanted to and I think he would have beaten Jones then too. If Patterson had stayed at light-heavy he would have been probably one of the greats at that weight.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 17 Nov 2005, 12:08

But by the time Patterson won the title back from Johansson he was already 190. Dropping 15 lbs when you're in peak shape at 190 is definitely going to leave you weak.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 12:49

I'm talking about the Patterson that beat Moore. At that point he could still have made 175 had he wanted.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 17 Nov 2005, 14:44

Patterson was a fast heavyweight but to say he was as fast or faster than Roy Jones Jr, who had some of the fastest hands in history, is off target. People can talk what they want about Roy Jones, but he wasn't KO'd or really beaten until he was 35 years old. And then he stretches that to three losses in a row. A prime Roy Jones has an easy time against a prime Patterson, at heavyweight or light heavyweight. For Jones, his blinding speed was power. He was extremely difficult to hit cleanly too, unlike Patterson. Even with his peek-a-boo style and head movement, he got hit a lot. Jones TKO 6 Patterson, 10 times out of 10.

theone · Post by **theone** » 17 Nov 2005, 18:48

The Patterson who beat Moore would easily beat Jones. Too strong and hit much too hard for Roy. Roy hit hard enough to be able to drop Patterson, but not keep him down. Patterson would put him down and keep him there, probably with one punch.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 17 Nov 2005, 18:53

evndrbsn wrote:Patterson was a fast heavyweight but to say he was as fast or faster than Roy Jones Jr, who had some of the fastest hands in history, is off target.

Please tell me you're joking.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 17 Nov 2005, 19:01

evndrbsn wrote:Patterson was a fast heavyweight but to say he was as fast or faster than Roy Jones Jr, who had some of the fastest hands in history, is off target. People can talk what they want about Roy Jones, but he wasn't KO'd or really beaten until he was 35 years old. And then he stretches that to three losses in a row. A prime Roy Jones has an easy time against a prime Patterson, at heavyweight or light heavyweight. For Jones, his blinding speed was power. He was extremely difficult to hit cleanly too, unlike Patterson. Even with his peek-a-boo style and head movement, he got hit a lot. Jones TKO 6 Patterson, 10 times out of 10.

No way, Jones was not faster than Patterson and Floyd would Ko Jones in about 5 rounds......

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 17 Nov 2005, 19:09

More like 5 minutes.

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 17 Nov 2005, 23:01

silkov wrote:
evndrbsn wrote:Patterson was a fast heavyweight but to say he was as fast or faster than Roy Jones Jr, who had some of the fastest hands in history, is off target. People can talk what they want about Roy Jones, but he wasn't KO'd or really beaten until he was 35 years old. And then he stretches that to three losses in a row. A prime Roy Jones has an easy time against a prime Patterson, at heavyweight or light heavyweight. For Jones, his blinding speed was power. He was extremely difficult to hit cleanly too, unlike Patterson. Even with his peek-a-boo style and head movement, he got hit a lot. Jones TKO 6 Patterson, 10 times out of 10.
No way, Jones was not faster than Patterson and Floyd would Ko Jones in about 5 rounds......

That's funny, I could have sworn Jones' punches blurred on the screen, they were so fast. I also completely forgot what a steel-chin Patterson had. It was almost freakish how he turned back the brutal punches of Liston for not just one, but two fights. Four minutes and fifteen seconds over two bouts is more than some lasted with Liston, so it has to count for something, right?

Jones would not have engaged Patterson. He would have darted in and out, avoiding Patterson's shots all night, at least before he KO'd Patterson between the seventh and tenth.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 18 Nov 2005, 09:08

evndrbsn wrote:
silkov wrote:
evndrbsn wrote:Patterson was a fast heavyweight but to say he was as fast or faster than Roy Jones Jr, who had some of the fastest hands in history, is off target. People can talk what they want about Roy Jones, but he wasn't KO'd or really beaten until he was 35 years old. And then he stretches that to three losses in a row. A prime Roy Jones has an easy time against a prime Patterson, at heavyweight or light heavyweight. For Jones, his blinding speed was power. He was extremely difficult to hit cleanly too, unlike Patterson. Even with his peek-a-boo style and head movement, he got hit a lot. Jones TKO 6 Patterson, 10 times out of 10.
No way, Jones was not faster than Patterson and Floyd would Ko Jones in about 5 rounds......
That's funny, I could have sworn Jones' punches blurred on the screen, they were so fast. I also completely forgot what a steel-chin Patterson had. It was almost freakish how he turned back the brutal punches of Liston for not just one, but two fights. Four minutes and fifteen seconds over two bouts is more than some lasted with Liston, so it has to count for something, right?

Jones would not have engaged Patterson. He would have darted in and out, avoiding Patterson's shots all night, at least before he KO'd Patterson between the seventh and tenth.

Patterson didn't exactly have slow hands himself and had far more power and was beating heavies!... Jones fought just one heavyweight and all of a sudden he can beat most of the great haeavyweight champions in history!!!.... now thats what I call funny!!!......

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 18 Nov 2005, 10:49

These Roy Jones v the HWs are great threads. I almost spat my apple on the screen when i read how Roy easily handles Floyd.

If Roy fns want to discuss Roy then let's put him in match ups where he has a chance.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 18 Nov 2005, 10:55

Floyd KO inside 8. I know its been said a million times but Ruiz is the only top HW that Jones has or ever would beat. Patterson might have had chin problems, but he hit hard and fast. RJJ is not as unbelievable as some of you make him out to be. If Glen Johnson KOs him, why wouldnt Patterson? Jones doesnt hit hard enough to stop him and he cant stay away from Patterson for too long.
Floyd Patterson KO inside 8

evndrbsn · Post by **evndrbsn** » 18 Nov 2005, 13:07

sockdollanger wrote:Floyd KO inside 8. I know its been said a million times but Ruiz is the only top HW that Jones has or ever would beat. Patterson might have had chin problems, but he hit hard and fast. RJJ is not as unbelievable as some of you make him out to be. If Glen Johnson KOs him, why wouldnt Patterson? Jones doesnt hit hard enough to stop him and he cant stay away from Patterson for too long.
Floyd Patterson KO inside 8

That was the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Glen Johnson KO'd a 35-year old Roy Jones. If you actually knew anything about the fight, you would know that Jones had to abandon camp because of a hurricane and barely got any training in. He had about two good weeks of training and got KO'd at age 35. Floyd was getting KO'd by the average Ingemar Johansson at age 24.

Patterson was at light heavyweight from 1952 to 1955. Floyd's heaviest weight from 1956 to 1962 was 194.5 lbs. His two heaviest opponents were a 213 lb Sonny Liston and a 206 1/2 lb Ingemar Johansson. Jones was 193 in his fight against Ruiz. In Patterson's entire career, he never weighed over 200.25 lbs.

Floyd would have an inch on Roy in height and an edge in power. They were nearly the same size as heavyweights and Roy at light heavyweight was only about 10 lbs less than Patterson at heavyweight. Patterson was solid but unspectacular in the light heavyweight division, at 24-1-0, with 16 KOs. Roy would mop the floor with Patterson at light heavyweight. No evidence supports otherwise. Roy was the more gifted athlete with better hand speed, better defensive skills, and better technique. Patterson was a fast heavyweight with good power, good skills, and a big heart. He lacked in defense and completely in chin.

Roy might not have had a good chin, we'll never know. The only thing we can gauge his chin by is getting KO'd twice at age 35. At age 35, all-time great light heavyweight and heavyweight Ezzard Charles was losing to fighters not even close to him in ability. He lost a wide decision to Pat McMurtry, a guy who was KO'd in one by Nino Valdes and Eddie Machen. The year before, he was stopped badly in nine by 22-10-1 John Holman, a guy not even near the class of Tarver and Glen Johnson.

Jones was barely touched by the time he was 34. Then he beats Tarver in close fight where he lost a bunch of muscle mass but again STILL WON and gets KO'd twice in subsequent fights at age 35. How can you knock a guy who had 14 years of unparalled success in the squared circle? He had a great 1989 to 2003 and then at the twilight of his career suffers three defeats in two years. Jones may not be appreciated now, but he will be in a few years. Same for Lennox Lewis.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 18 Nov 2005, 13:14

wow, get off RJJs wee-wee! sorry to make you so upset with my opinion.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Nov 2005, 13:57

Patterson would've ripped him a new hole. Floyd was vulnerable against heavy hitting heavyweights, but was a killer light heavy. How many killer light heavies has Jones beaten? Anyone actually think Roy goes near a guy with that combination of speed, class and power?

Roy would be on his back, trembling

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 18 Nov 2005, 15:39

Even is Jones is past his best in the Tarver trilogy, one can assume Antonio gives him a tough fight anytime in his career . .

I don't know bout ya'll but Floyd Patterson is a big level above friggin' Antonio Tarver . . . .

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 18 Nov 2005, 15:59

evndrbsn wrote:
silkov wrote:
evndrbsn wrote:Patterson was a fast heavyweight but to say he was as fast or faster than Roy Jones Jr, who had some of the fastest hands in history, is off target. People can talk what they want about Roy Jones, but he wasn't KO'd or really beaten until he was 35 years old. And then he stretches that to three losses in a row. A prime Roy Jones has an easy time against a prime Patterson, at heavyweight or light heavyweight. For Jones, his blinding speed was power. He was extremely difficult to hit cleanly too, unlike Patterson. Even with his peek-a-boo style and head movement, he got hit a lot. Jones TKO 6 Patterson, 10 times out of 10.
No way, Jones was not faster than Patterson and Floyd would Ko Jones in about 5 rounds......
That's funny, I could have sworn Jones' punches blurred on the screen, they were so fast. I also completely forgot what a steel-chin Patterson had. It was almost freakish how he turned back the brutal punches of Liston for not just one, but two fights. Four minutes and fifteen seconds over two bouts is more than some lasted with Liston, so it has to count for something, right?

Jones would not have engaged Patterson. He would have darted in and out, avoiding Patterson's shots all night, at least before he KO'd Patterson between the seventh and tenth.

The difference in TV quality and filming angles means that most modern boxers look quicker and more dazzling than fights pre 1980's.

Patterson would have kicked Jones ass in about three rounds.

For what its worth, Liston would have literally killed Jones. Patterson had the guts to fight Liston twice, when he had a fearsome rep.

I very much doubt that RJJ would have even stepped into a ring with Liston..... Or with Patterson for that matter.

Jones has tremendous skills, but so did Donald Curry.

I dont see anyone calling Curry an all time great, and neither was Jones.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 18 Nov 2005, 16:30

dempseyfire wrote:Even is Jones is past his best in the Tarver trilogy, one can assume Antonio gives him a tough fight anytime in his career . .

I don't know bout ya'll but Floyd Patterson is a big level above friggin' Antonio Tarver . . . .

Amen

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 18 Nov 2005, 17:21

Roy might not have had a good chin, we'll never know. The only thing we can gauge his chin by is getting KO'd twice at age 35. At age 35, all-time great light heavyweight and heavyweight Ezzard Charles was losing to fighters not even close to him in ability. He lost a wide decision to Pat McMurtry, a guy who was KO'd in one by Nino Valdes and Eddie Machen. The year before, he was stopped badly in nine by 22-10-1 John Holman, a guy not even near the class of Tarver and Glen Johnson.

are u serios!! ezzard was 100% shot at that time

- 3 years earlier he suffered two beatings against marciano and rapidly aged

- ezzard by that time completley shot, like ali vs holmes.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 18 Nov 2005, 17:29

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
Roy might not have had a good chin, we'll never know. The only thing we can gauge his chin by is getting KO'd twice at age 35. At age 35, all-time great light heavyweight and heavyweight Ezzard Charles was losing to fighters not even close to him in ability. He lost a wide decision to Pat McMurtry, a guy who was KO'd in one by Nino Valdes and Eddie Machen. The year before, he was stopped badly in nine by 22-10-1 John Holman, a guy not even near the class of Tarver and Glen Johnson.

are u serios!! ezzard was 100% shot at that time

- 3 years earlier he suffered two beatings against marciano and rapidly aged

- ezzard by that time completley shot, like ali vs holmes.

I think that's what he meant. That RJJ was shot at 35.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 18 Nov 2005, 17:45

?

As a L.H. Floyd lost an unpopular & highly controversial decision to Maxim in the house of upsets back in June 54 in his 8th pro fight. His win over Don Grant in 55 was said by D'amato to be one of his greatest fights. Maxim was a cutie. Not as fast as RJJ, & not a hard hitter, but if your able to beat Ray Robinson under any conditions you've got something going on. Who knows what Floyd could have accomplished? I doubt he would have even been tested until 1965. Moore, Johnson, Pastrano, Torres, Tiger ... I don't think so. Perhaps Bob Foster about 68 would have given him a tussle... perhaps. Don't talk to me about RJJ dominating the division. Floyd would have ruled it as long as he wanted. At HW... well, that's where the money is. If RJJ had even the tiniest inclination, he could have beat a Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, or Lewis he would have tried for the H. W. title as all the great L.H. champs have done. Floyd ruled the heavyweights as champion twice. He was a top contender until he left the ring in 1972. RJJ was great, but Floyd was greater.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 18 Nov 2005, 17:55

o ok my mistake i get his point now, i agree roy was shot against tarver and johnson,

however he lost about 4 rounds vs ruiz and was stunned a couple times, and that tells me all i need to know

RJJ vs. Patterson

RJJ vs. Patterson

Patterson-RJJ