Why are there never any positive Muhammad Ali threads?

[Nile4000]

I guess Ali is an easy target, he started the "I am the greatest" line so thats bound to attract negativity. To be fair as an actual fighter his abilities are often overrated, he didn't throw any body punches as an example. His success was on speed, great punch resistance. I wouldn't say I was a huge fan. His general fame is more because of the controversy over his life, his personality and showmanship. Boxing hadn't seen anything like him before. Personally many of his fights were boring but his overall achievements cannot be ignored.

As an example Elvis Presley is still given worldwide admiration yet he didn't write any of his songs and was mainly popular because again the world hadn't seen someone like him before and he was a good looking fella. That doesn't make him a best singer in the world.

Elvis was the right shade, and stole a lot of good soul music, and yet, people still see him as the greatest.That says a lot.Unfreakingbelievable!

[palooka]

I guess Ali is an easy target, he started the "I am the greatest" line so thats bound to attract negativity. To be fair as an actual fighter his abilities are often overrated, he didn't throw any body punches as an example. His success was on speed, great punch resistance. I wouldn't say I was a huge fan. His general fame is more because of the controversy over his life, his personality and showmanship. Boxing hadn't seen anything like him before. Personally many of his fights were boring but his overall achievements cannot be ignored.

As an example Elvis Presley is still given worldwide admiration yet he didn't write any of his songs and was mainly popular because again the world hadn't seen someone like him before and he was a good looking fella. That doesn't make him a best singer in the world.

"Elvis Presley has been described variously as a baritone and a tenor. An extraordinary compass- the so-called register-, and a very wide range of vocal color have something to do with this divergence of opinion. The voice covers two octaves and a third, from the baritone low-G to the tenor high B, with an upward extension in falsetto to at least a D flat. Presley's best octave is in the middle, D-flat to D-flat, granting an extra full step up or down. Call him a high baritone. In "It's'now or never", (1960), he ends it in a full voice cadence (A, G, F), that has nothing to do with the vocal devices of Rhythm and Blues and Country. That A-note is hit right on the nose, and it is rendered less astonishing only by the number of tracks where he lands easy and accurate B-flats. Moreover, he has not been confined to one type of vocal production. In ballads and country songs he belts out full-voiced high G's and A's that an opera baritone might envy. He is a naturally assimilative stylist with a multiplicity of voices - in fact, Elvis' is an extraordinary voice, or many voices"
- Henry Pleasants, in his book "The Great American Popular Singers" (1974)


As far as Muhammad Ali his body of work speaks for itself. He was probably one of the most naturally gifted athletes the world of boxing has ever seen. The hand speed, the foot speed, the rapier like reflexes...And that marvelous heart that never abandoned him as his God given skills did.

I have sometimes said, 'Good post' but I have never (until now) said, 'That is a lovely post' - very touching

[Giancarlo]

The whole "greatest" tag suggests he thought he was the greatest fighter who has ever lived.

There is a documentary on Sugar Ray Robinson. I forget what it is called now but I'll dig the name up as I have it on disk.

In it, they interview Ali who says "I always said I was the greatest heavyweight, but Ray Robinson was the greatest ever pound for pound."

Hey, serendipity strikes, that was the name of the documentary - "Pound for Pound"!

[BoxBuzz]

He did write the song...."One Night" with you......... about his dear departed mother.
Not a bad tune...

Elvis had a hand in writing a few songs but 'One Night' wasn't one of them - that was written by Dave Bartholomew, Pearl King and Anita Steiman.

Ok....I don't like being told I don't know what I'm talking about. So I went back and researched this.

So I went back to my source on this....and my memory sucked. However.....ELVIS DID change a few of the words in order to make it palatable to the label.....and to do so he used his thoughts of his mom to change it from "sinful" words...to "longing" words. Apparently enough ballyhoo was made about his small contribution that many gave him credit for writing it.

Though fixed...I must now admit that I had inadvertently "Il Duce'ed" this story all to hell.

Or....maybe Il Duce was writing back when I was a kid when I first swallowed this bit of poisoned history.

In which case my excuse will be that I had read his work, and mistakenly believed it.

This of course will help me take more seriously the complaints of those who say his work must be more thoroughly criticized, and perhaps even censored.

Learn something every day.

[Controversial]

The whole "greatest" tag suggests he thought he was the greatest fighter who has ever lived.

There is a documentary on Sugar Ray Robinson. I forget what it is called now but I'll dig the name up as I have it on disk.

In it, they interview Ali who says "I always said I was the greatest heavyweight, but Ray Robinson was the greatest ever pound for pound."

Hey, serendipity strikes, that was the name of the documentary - "Pound for Pound"!

Yes I've heard that before. However to the non-boxing fan all they hear is Ali proclaiming "I am the greatest", and they think he is. In fact I had this very conversation last weekend, a mate of mine who knows nothing about boxing, we got onto the subject of boxing and he said "Ali was the greatest fighter ever wasn't he, no one could beat him".

So you get this strange mix of the general population assuming he is the greatest "fighter" when in fact it was a self titled moniker that only really applies at heavyweight (and even then that is debatable to some).

[gilgamesh]

The whole "greatest" tag suggests he thought he was the greatest fighter who has ever lived.

There is a documentary on Sugar Ray Robinson. I forget what it is called now but I'll dig the name up as I have it on disk.

In it, they interview Ali who says "I always said I was the greatest heavyweight, but Ray Robinson was the greatest ever pound for pound."

Hey, serendipity strikes, that was the name of the documentary - "Pound for Pound"!

Yes I've heard that before. However to the non-boxing fan all they hear is Ali proclaiming "I am the greatest", and they think he is. In fact I had this very conversation last weekend, a mate of mine who knows nothing about boxing, we got onto the subject of boxing and he said "Ali was the greatest fighter ever wasn't he, no one could beat him".

So you get this strange mix of the general population assuming he is the greatest "fighter" when in fact it was a self titled moniker that only really applies at heavyweight (and even then that is debatable to some).

It amuses me a lot of the time how much casual fans know f*ck all about Boxing. I had some guy recently tell me after Pacquiao had barely scraped by Marquez in their 3rd meeting that Pac had knocked out everyone he ever fought

It gets annoying when guys that don't know sh*t like that will argue with you when you correct them.

[elmersalsa]

The great Muhammad Ali never claimed to be the greatest fighter pound per pound. He claimed to be the prettiest and greatest heavyweight of all time. He was right in both accounts. The guy was very handsome. And if you look at his body of work at heavy, he is tops, too.

The problem is that you ask the average folk out there in the streets of London, New York , Tokyo or any other part of the world, they would tell you he is the greatest fighter pound per pound, which is MINDBOGGLING considering that in this forum, we know that for example, greats like Sam Langford, Ezzard Charles or even the great Roberto Duran were better than he was.

[ThatOne]

I'm having a positive thought........

You imagined you really did graduate from high school.

[SteveO]

Ok....I don't like being told I don't know what I'm talking about. So I went back and researched this.

So I went back to my source on this....and my memory sucked. However.....ELVIS DID change a few of the words in order to make it palatable to the label.....and to do so he used his thoughts of his mom to change it from "sinful" words...to "longing" words. Apparently enough ballyhoo was made about his small contribution that many gave him credit for writing it.

Though fixed...I must now admit that I had inadvertently "Il Duce'ed" this story all to hell.

Or....maybe Il Duce was writing back when I was a kid when I first swallowed this bit of poisoned history.

In which case my excuse will be that I had read his work, and mistakenly believed it.

This of course will help me take more seriously the complaints of those who say his work must be more thoroughly criticized, and perhaps even censored.

Learn something every day.

Don't let the Il Duce effect get to you BoxBuzz :-)
Yes, the original lyrics were way too raunchy for 1957 so they had to be altered for the single release. Elvis did record the song with the original lyrics also, but that version of the song was not released until 1992 on 'Elvis' Complete 50's Masters' album.
Incidently 'One Night' by Elvis reached #1 in the U.K charts TWICE - once in 1959 and again in 2005.
Elvis currently has an album in the U.K Top 10 as we speak. Amazing that his music is still going strong today.

[Controversial]

Speaking of Music

This was nominated for 'Best Comedy Album of 1963'

Haha I would love to hear what that sounds like !!!

[Controversial]

Tried to find it on YouTube but can't see it, anyone got a link to the song?

[ThatOne]

Tried to find it on YouTube but can't see it, anyone got a link to the song?

GOAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtIF0OqRnOE

What a gift to the world.

[Controversial]

Tried to find it on YouTube but can't see it, anyone got a link to the song?

GOAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtIF0OqRnOE

What a gift to the world.

Thanks I think, pretty awful

[ThatOne]

Tried to find it on YouTube but can't see it, anyone got a link to the song?

GOAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtIF0OqRnOE

What a gift to the world.

Thanks I think, pretty awful

I disagree... The man was a treasure. "He is the Alpha and the Omega."

[palooka]

I disagree... The man was a treasure. "He is the Alpha and the Omega."[/quote]

He injured a stone and made medicine sick and threw thunder in jail - do not mess with Ali.

[Controversial]

I disagree... The man was a treasure. "He is the Alpha and the Omega."

He might be many things but a singer he isn't

[palooka]

I disagree... The man was a treasure. "He is the Alpha and the Omega."

He might be many things but a singer he isn't[/quote]

Was he worse than Joe Frazier?

(Ernie Terrells' sister was a fantastic soul singer - Tammi Terrell, she died age 24 of a brain tumor, collapsing in Marvin Gayes arms as they sang on stage.)

[SteveO]

I disagree... The man was a treasure. "He is the Alpha and the Omega."

He might be many things but a singer he isn't[/quote]

Was he worse than Joe Frazier?

(Ernie Terrells' sister was a fantastic soul singer - Tammi Terrell, she died age 24 of a brain tumor, collapsing in Marvin Gayes arms as they sang on stage.)

I believe Ernie had a band also. I don't know whether he or Joe Frazier had any records released, I think they may have.
Anyone know of any other boxer singers?

[ThatOne]

I disagree... The man was a treasure. "He is the Alpha and the Omega."

He might be many things but a singer he isn't[/quote]

Was he worse than Joe Frazier?

(Ernie Terrells' sister was a fantastic soul singer - Tammi Terrell, she died age 24 of a brain tumor, collapsing in Marvin Gayes arms as they sang on stage.)

That's setting the bar very low.

[palooka]

Was he worse than Joe Frazier?

(Ernie Terrells' sister was a fantastic soul singer - Tammi Terrell, she died age 24 of a brain tumor, collapsing in Marvin Gayes arms as they sang on stage.)[/quote]

That's setting the bar very low.[/quote]


If he's worse we don't have to look any more; if he's better we can compare him to Bob Dylan

[gilgamesh]

If he's worse we don't have to look any more; if he's better we can compare him to Bob Dylan

Bob Dylan has a lyric in one of his songs "Figured I was ready for Cassius Clay" D ...it's on the comedic track "I Shall Be Free No. 10"

[evrenb]

Larry holmes